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MinnesotaMike

Building a Pole Barn

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I am in the beginning process of planning a Pole Barn at the lake to use for storage purposes only.

It will be a box store 24' x 27'

I have built garages in the past but never a pole builing.

I have a couple of questions.

The ground is fairily level, should I get it perfectly level?

It will have class 5 for the floor.

When setting the posts, do I try to make them the same hight by the dept of the hole or just trim the tops off?

I have heard that I don't secure the side posts (fill the hole completely)until I set the trusses, to ease with spacing???

I am sure I will have more questions but this is enough to get me going.

I had a contractor at the lake quote me $2200 for labor and that is with me and some buddies helping... seems high so I might want to try this on my own.

I will have access to a bob cat.

Any input would be appreciated.

Mike

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I am in the beginning process of planning a Pole Barn at the lake to use for storage purposes only.

It will be a box store 24' x 27'

I have built garages in the past but never a pole builing.

I have a couple of questions.

The ground is fairily level, should I get it perfectly level?

It will have class 5 for the floor.

Not Needed. You can level after you have the post and the treated at the sides down.

When setting the posts, do I try to make them the same hight by the dept of the hole or just trim the tops off?

Trim the tops. You will never be able to get them set properly by depth of the hole, and you will have taller posts on the gable ends.

I have heard that I don't secure the side posts (fill the hole completely)until I set the trusses, to ease with spacing???

Sorry, I don't follow

I am sure I will have more questions but this is enough to get me going.

I had a contractor at the lake quote me $2200 for labor and that is with me and some buddies helping... seems high so I might want to try this on my own.

$2,200, that is a little more then 40 hours of labor. Add in their tools, equipment, insurance, the knowledge of what to do, as well as the tricks of the trade, safety items, etc. Two guys for half a week? Seems more then reasonable to me, and maybe a little light.

I will have access to a bob cat.

Any input would be appreciated.

Mike

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A bit directly off the subject but are you sure that you can build one that big and place it where you want too? I'd ask some questions of the local officials to make sure you don't end up boogering it up and having to pay some fine or even worse take it down. Another thought is to talk to your neighbors about what you plan on doing so you don't ruffle any feathers there either. I wouldn't let them dictate what you can/can't do but avoiding hassles in the future would be a good thing IMO.

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Isn't that part of the reason a permit is required Tom? Good to point that out. I've known people that have gone ahead and completed a project like this only to have to move it or remove it after it was done.

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Thanks guys,

Just to clear up some details.

I have 8 acres at the lake, space is no problem. The application will be going in the mail shortly as I have already been in contact with them and size is not an issue.

I do not have anybody to the south of me and the 1st neighbor to the north has no problem as I helped in the construction of his garage last year. The next meighbor to the north is the possible builder.

We all have atleast 6 acre lots and there is only 6 lots in the developement.

Thanks for your concerns though.

Mike

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1 ground should be somewhat level, but you can grad afterwards...

2 set the posts, and cut them off

$2200 and your helping?? that works out to about 3.40/sq ft.. for that price he should build the whold thing. if he knows what he's doing, day 1 set posts, day 2 girts trusses, 3 purlins/ girts 4 steel, windows, doors, day 5 trim, finish up, 6-7 fill it up, sit back drink a beer..

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Now on serious side, check with county for codes, you might find you need engineering seals, and a print.. check for truss loading required. If your gonna put cattle in it, it falls under a different class of code than a "storage " shed. If not built to code, and for some reason it would collapse, you might not get anything through your insurance.. but.. If built to code, you should be covered.

another good thought is wainscoat if the bottom panel gets damaged, or banged up, you could replace it, rather than a whole sheet.

are you going to ever turn it into a shop? insulate it? what could future uses be... If going to your gonna need overhangs, with soffits and facia, and a ridge venting..

just a few things to think about..

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Now on serious side, check with county for codes, you might find you need engineering seals, and a print.. check for truss loading required. If your gonna put cattle in it, it falls under a different class of code than a "storage " shed. If not built to code, and for some reason it would collapse, you might not get anything through your insurance.. but.. If built to code, you should be covered.

another good thought is wainscoat if the bottom panel gets damaged, or banged up, you could replace it, rather than a whole sheet.

are you going to ever turn it into a shop? insulate it? what could future uses be... If going to your gonna need overhangs, with soffits and facia, and a ridge venting..

just a few things to think about..

Who keeps cattle at the lake?

Wainscoat? Where, on the inside? Whole sheet of what? metal siding?

I dont mean to sound condescending, but I'm not following.

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What I am getting at, is that different buildings may fall under differenet codes. Where we live here in SE MN, One county had codes up the Butt, the next county will let you do about anything.

I could build 2 sheds on each side of the county line, and one needs an inspection, one don't. I tell one county Its for cattle it requires 29# loading on trusses.. thats live load,dead load top and a live on the bottom. If I'm gonna put a car,boat, ect.. in there I need to jump it up to 37-40# loading.

want a ceiling in it someday, but not right now?? you need to have trusses loaded for them right now.. putting a ceiling in trusses not engineered for a ceiling can harm the structural integrity of the trusses. then when It snows, the roof pushing down, will collapse the roof...because the ceiling inside is pulling down..

wainscoat is 2 different steel panels on the outside of the structure separated by a piece of d-2 trim.(like an L flashing) then you can have 2 different colors of steel on the walls. (EXTERIOR)

anymore questions just shout!!

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anymore questions just shout!!

Gotcha. All this talk of sheds/barns really makes me want another one. I have too much @$(*!

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Thanks for the info. I would never have guessed that there were so many different options or requirements.

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My buddy did a 50x80 and has the bottom wainscotting and it looks great (tan top green bottom). I never thought of the fact that if the bottom get banged up (kids on dirt bike, backing truck into it, etc.) you would only have to replace a smaller sheet, but I like that idea! Wish I could do a pole barn, but I can't... Good luck MNMike! I am jealous smile

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Thanks guys,

I am going to end up putting it myself. I went to the big box store and they have an instruction manual and it seems pretty easy.

I'll post pictures of the process.

Mike

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Menards, I priced it out yesterday 24 x 27 = $3900.00

I'm going to add two more truses as they only have 4 for a 27' building.

It'll make me feel better about the snow load.

Mike

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Sounds like your putting the poles directly into the dirt? Have you thought about pouring concrete footings (the tube type)? Avoid rot..?

There are a bunch of ways of doing it, and I'm not sure what is the best, just curious. I'm not sure if poles on top of concrete will give the proper lateral bracing.

I have also seen putting some stone pad thing in the bottom of the hole and putting gravel around the base.

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Mike, have you talked to a BUILDING SAFETY guy??

I tell you, I've sold for MENARDS, and some allow the pads, and others want a Direct Pour.. Hate to see you order the pads and then have some inspector say that you need Redi-Mix to come in.

by the sound of it you had 9 ' oc and are now adding 2 trusses??

Why not go 30' long, and go 6'oc on the trusses.. you'll get 72 more sq ft. and will end up adding a couple posts. you going columns or poles?

Just a thought, are you going to pull power to it right away?? If your not going to have power right away, or don't plan to put a ceiling in... think of getting some ridge lite. This will let some nice light in through the top.

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Update on the Pole Building process.

Ordered the building and had it scheduled for delivery 8-2-10. After looking at the plans one more time I realized that I needed another truss. They we able to order it and still get it delivered 8-2-10. We are going up this weekend to check it out and start the process.

Permit was pulled and all is good. One thing that confuses me, no where on the permit is there a sign off for, footings, framing and final. I built a garage in St Paul and I needed all of these signed off.

Anywho.....

Question for ya'all.

Should I put fabric down before I get the class 5 delivered for the floor? Should I kill the grass or just run the class 5 over it?

I am sure I will have more questions later but that is all I have now.

Thanks,

Mike

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kinda depends on the county, twnship ect...

I've worked some areas where about all you need for a print is a napkin, and the next place wants prints..

same goes for MR.Inspector... some want to look at the holes b4 they are poured, others just want to do a final...

Have a Great Weekend!! and Remember... NO BEER TILL ITS SQUARED UP!!

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11-87,

Arrived at the Lake around 6 and the garage was laying, not where I asked them to put it but I can work around this.

Upon inspection I noticed that the trim on the entry door is totaly smashed on both corners and in the middle, the window is junk also. I brought them home to see if I could exchange them at my local Mendards, no go, they are special order and I have to deal with Hermantown. Hermantown is where I had the materials delivered out of.

I will call the Friday office to see what they can do for me, I bought it there.

?We put the feet on the poles and it looks like labor day will be the big push to get most of it done.

As far as inspections, I talked to the guy who issued the permit and because I am the builder I do not need to have it inspected. On the permit application there is a spot to sign as a waiver not to hold the county responsible if something happens to the building.

More later,

Mike

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I can't believe that nobody has mentioned anything about electricity in the shed. You do plan on putting some lights and receptacles in there, right? This will involve another permit and more than likely an inspection.

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I've done hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of business with Hermantown Menards yearly.

If you have a legit complaint they'll take care of it.

Yeah, I supported the smaller yards in the area for many years too. They are not around anymore.

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  • Your Responses - Share & Have Fun :)

    • Sounds like a great trip and a really fun experience, congratulations! Thanks for all the pictures and sharing your story. I know that's a lot of work and it is much appreciated.
    • At this point we had one full day and one morning left to hunt.  No more elk moved into the drainage behind camp.  By some miracle a cow and spike did come back to the hillside we had elk on that first evening, but neither Dad or I could get in position quick enough before they went back over the fence.     All added up we had 2 very good opportunities, and one decent, which by our standards and past experience in general OTC type units was a pretty decent week of elk hunting even though no elk were killed.  We learned a lot about the unit and a potential better way to access the landlocked area behind us via a possible easement logging road, but we have to confirm that with the forest service at a later date.       You might be wondering what happened with our whitetail tags.   We had numerous run-ins with deer on an almost daily basis.  There were at least three occasions where does would feed right into camp, and it got to a point I kept my bow in the cook shack to try to shoot out of it as a blind.  They never stuck around long enough though to actually get a shot off.      Dad sat his tree stand a number of times above camp as he came down at sunset with enough time to sit in a tree for a half hour or so, but the deer always seemed to pass through the spots he could not shoot or see.  One time he climbed down to two deer staring at him from within range, he just did not see them coming...   Almost every evening we walked down the road behind camp we would kick up a deer or two bedding in the quakeys, but as the week progressed they clearly became more skittish of us.  I also tried hunting back down the gravel road and found some good spots where they crossed the road and creek, which if I actually focused on sitting over with a treestand I feel I could have shot a deer, but I wanted an elk more...        Our Elk B tags are good through rifle season, as are the deer tags.  If the stars align and my wife allows I might make a run back out.  I have an acquaintance in the area that I am checking with to see if he might be interested.       I hope Scoot and ArcherySniper come back to report better luck on their hunts.  
    • It rained that night, and the next morning we went up high to glass back where we left the elk.  They seem to have never left the cut we saw them bed in.       Some interesting low clouds.   It rained all afternoon, but the forecast said it would clear a couple hours before sunset.   We observed snow on the high peaks in the distance.        Once the rain stopped and the skies looked clear we went back to see if we could finally shoot an elk.  We worked the wind back up to where we had last sat so we see the elk and still move down to intercept if they came down for water/feed.   The elk were still up high, but shifted left a couple cuts.  We were now close enough to confirm that the bull was in fact a smallish 6 point.       We waited a long time watching the cows get up to feed and then bed down again repeatedly.  As sunset neared the lead cow looked ready to commit to coming down.  Our plan was to run down fast to intercept, watching as we fast-walked down to the bottom.   It was clear now the elk were following the left most ridge, and moving quite fast, they definitely wanted to get to the bottom for the good creek water and green grass!      The plan was I would run ahead to intercept as I could get their faster.  I knew the place they were going, having scouted it earlier in the week.  It was a perfect funnel.  The cows went behind the narrow ridge they were following, but the bull stayed high watching the drainage.  I managed to get up through the saplings quietly and in position, and could see the bull up high, and the cows feeding and walking right to me on a string!      Unfortunately behind me I heard a loud stick break.  The bull did too and was pacing back and forth rapidly trying to figure out what was below him...  I could see my dad standing in the creek bottom.   I adjusted my position, the cows were coming closer, I ranged for shot options, they would pass within 40yd and the bull might walk right over me...    The bull unfortunately had had enough.  He swooped down to the cows and herded them back up the hill...  The cows had no clue what was going on, but the bull clearly was not stupid.   After waiting until it was close to dark I picked my way back down to my dad, who was standing on the cattle trail we had gone up previously.  It turned out that he tripped over a downfall fell badly.   He was not hurt, but he thought the bull could not see him, but I had a better view from above as to what was going on.  Those elk were not seen again for the rest of the hunt.    
    • Unfortunately the weather turned bad on us and it rained over night, I forget if it was day four or five.   In any case a cloud system rolled in and low cloud ceiling filled the drainage behind camp.        We went up the front side of the area hoping elk would be out there to get out of the clouds.  It was extremely windy now as well.  I went high back where I saw the spike days earlier and was glassing back up the drainage when I saw a bull and three cows in the wide open up high!   I considered running down the cut between us to try to intercept in the creek bottom below, but did not want to risk bumping these elk when they were the only elk in the entire drainage!     Dad sidehilled across to join me, followed by a herd of mule deer does...      Selfie with cloud covered hills.        We watched where the elk bedded and decided to ambush them in the evening.  We decided to drive out to town to hit the grocery store so Dad could have more fresh food and not have to resort to eating what I brought.  The cloud system over the area did not look good from below at all...     That evening we went to the hill the elk were on in the morning so we could see where they were bedded.  The clouds were so thick now in the drainage we could not see up to where the elk were.  It was very windy and cold. The elk never showed up.  We left before sunset.     Another selfie in the clouds, so cold and windy I had to break out the facemask and extra layers while hunkering down behind a blowdown.      
    • I told my dad that he should not follow me up that hill, it might kill him.  He did not take me seriously...  He followed anyway.  We left camp very early as it was a long walk up the drainage, and I wanted to be on top before the elk, but I still needed daylight to get up the dangerous last 700ft.     Sunrise behind me on the way up:   I made it to the top and set up in the rock outcropping.  Time passed, Dad was nowhere to be seen behind me.  I saw a group of elk below me in the next drainage, a nice bull and what might have been the cows/calves I was seeing on the spine the previous days...     I waited, and waited, and saw lots of fresh tracks in the dirt.  Dad showed up, still no elk up high...  We waited until about 10am, long past when they had passed through the other times.  The elk below us bedded and a satellite bull moved in on them.  Another bull was bugling to the one below us, and we heard one lone bugle to the right.   We had no intention of going down to try to shoot one, because if we did it would be a nightmare for us to get the meat out again.        We gave up and picked our way back down the chute and all the way to camp.  After doing this walk two days in a row my feet hurt like hell and I was beat.  I would not be able to do it again a third day in a row.     
    • I think it was the third morning when I walked back up the big drainage behind camp to get a good look on the ground for elk sign.  On the way I saw more elk way up on the spine of the drainage.  Lots more elk sign in the back cuts.  It was clear this area held a lot of elk during the summer, but they got busted out by hunters during the early part of the season.    I decided I was going to get a closer look at the potential trail to the top of the drainage spine.  I am a rock climber, so heights don't bother me so much.  I was more concerned about footing and if my dad could get up there, and if I did shoot one how would I get it down...   The top of the spine where I was targeting was 1600ft above camp, the last chute is about 700ft alone and very steep.   I slowly picked my way up the chute, sweating profusely in the sun, but was rewarded at the top.    The view back to camp:   The view down the back side, one square mile of almost entirely private landlocked national forest.       The elk highway along the spine that I was seeing elk use, and was covered in fresh tracks.       The elk trail at the top funnel together at a rock outcropping that I knew I had to use as a blind. If I shot an elk up here it would have to be at the very top, because hauling meat down the hill behind me was bad enough, but I did not want to have to haul any up the hill either as it was just as steep on the other side!   I made plans to come back early the next morning and kill an elk at this spot.   That evening I sat on the other hill we had been hunting more consistently, and watched the herd of elk taunting us from a far off ridge.  Here is one of the small satellite bulls.    
    • Dad had seen a black bear below him that first morning, and when I walked down the next day with him I was able to snap some photos in the early light with my bigger camera.  They are grainy, but it looked like a nice bear to me.  We did not have a tag.     Herd of elk way out on private range land:   Interesting spider:
    • Unfortunately this is where the trip gets boring.   That herd we accidentally set up on the very first evening moved across the fence and taunted us from the other side all week.  We knew it was a good spot, but wind directions did not cooperate, and no more elk would cross the fence there no matter how much we wanted them to or how good the sign was on that hillside.    The second morning I went higher above to glass back up the main drainage.  Far up on the rim of the drianage I saw a few elk walk across the spine.  I knew from the map there was one chute that could access the national forest behind us, and as far as I knew there were no other ways back up there.  I added some waypoints to onx.   As I worked around the hill glassing, I eventually walked into a spike bull bedded.  Unfortunately he was alone, and some cattle fed into him and bumped him out.  He then saw/smelled me and busted out never to be seen again.     The drainage behind camp:   Elk on the high rim of the drainage:   Looking down to camp where the whitetail deer live:   Spike bull elk at 90yd. 
    • As luck, or bad luck, would have it the first evening was one of our luckiest.  We hiked up the main logging road that took us to the front of the drainage overlooking some prime grazing areas.  We hiked back to where we hit a private ranch fence that had timber on the other side, hoping elk would come out to feed and we could observe.   We no sooner arrived at our observation point and a raghorn bull across the valley saw us coming and blew out ahead of us...      We found a place to sit by a grove of shorter quaking aspens (I think).  We waited and waited, and I scouted behind the grove and came back to let my dad know there was a lot of elk sign on the hillside above us...     As sunset rolled around we heard something behind us, Dad though it was birds.  There were birds in the aspens, but this was much louder.   I figured there were elk coming right to us, so we knocked arrows and waited.  Fortunately they wind was right, and now thermals kicked in to further assist.    Sure enough elk had moved right into us.  If we were facing uphill instead of out across the valley we would have had easy shots.  Unfortunately the elk sensed something was wrong, so we each snuck around opposite sides of the grove.  I went high side, and saw an elk 40yd in front of me, but I thought I saw antlers so did not move further for a shot.  I waited.  Dad had gone low, not as quietly, and the elk were moving off now.  I saw a huge herd bull crest the hill above, and a cow and calf stood in front of me at 80yd.   I drew on them, but did not shoot.         After the frustration wore off, we headed back to camp.  We crossed the last cattle gate above camp just before dark, and I looked up to see two whitetail does standing there staring at us.  I couldn't believe it...  I quickly confirmed they were whitetail, and we both ranged them for 35yd.  I drew to shoot, settled in for the shot, and watched as my arrow sailed right over the does back...  I couldn't believe it.  I made sure I was using the right pins, and even doing a test shot the next day showed the bow was shooting accurately...   Throughout the week we learned the whitetail deer were consistently feeding and bedding right around our camp.  Dad set a tree stand not more than 100yd above camp.      
    • This year I got the bright idea of buying some leftover Elk B tags in a unit in SW Montana that we had never been to before. Originally my dad and I were planning on going back out to Idaho where we hunted two years ago now that we had some experience there.   MT Elk B tags are less than half the cost of an any elk tag in Idaho, and 1/3 the cost of a MT general elk tag.  In addition we could buy up two two Whitetail B tags each for a reasonable fee, and it looked like there were plenty in the unit to go around.  It did not take much convincing for my dad.    Some quick research on the internet showed this unit had a good amount of accessible national forest ground, plus state and Block Management areas.  Access was a little limited to a handful of major trailheads and short road sections, but I felt there were enough options to give it a go.  Another plus was that the elevation in this area had camp at 6000ft and most of our hunting no higher than 7500ft.  This was important because Dad turned 69 during the trip and I wanted to make sure he wouldn't have a heart attack in the middle of the hunt.  I also subscribed to the OnXMaps service and put the app with my account on both of our phones so we could share waypoints, and waypoints I saved ahead of time from home could be visible on the phone app.  
      The drive across MN/ND/MT was uneventful, except that because we had so much extra junk in the truck that the seats could not lean back properly to allow for decent sleep at 2am...  I forget where we had breakfast, maybe it was Billings.  Dad likes to eat at local cafes whenever possible, and he found one attached to a cattle auction facility.   We were the only non-ranchers in attendance.  The food was very good, and provided leftovers for a second meal.     We arrived in our unit in one piece, and my first choice area turned out to not have anyone camped at the trailhead!   So we set up shop and made camp.  As per the usual with my dad, he packed everything plus the kitchen sink, in double...  I lean more towards the minimalist side, and have learned that any food I pack likely will not be eaten as he prefers full cooked meals instead of whatever I can muster up on my whisperlite.  Our truck camp is usually pretty comfortable.   I'm sure you will all recognize the Eskimo pop-up ice shack.  These work great as cook shacks on hunting trips!  Dad has one of the tall models you can stand in, with quilted sides.  Even without the tarp on top it will keep out quite a bit of rain, and the propane cook stove heats it well in the morning/evening.  During the day the open windows and doors provide great ventilation to relax in the shade, while the Cabelas Alaskan tent was roasting hot inside.      Turns out there are a decent number of cattle in this drainage with us.  We were constantly dodging cow pies and herding them off the trails ahead of us.        
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