why is it that trout guys feel the need...

[say_der]

to push their ethics onto other anglers?

If it's legal to keep what right do we have to complain?

I personally don't keep any trout out of streams in MN or where ever else my luck may take me. But I don't tell other anglers to practice catch and release if they don't feel the need.

Why are people who keep trout labeled as "uneducated?"

[Jim W]

SAYDER,

Good question! I may be guilty of this. "If" you can claim guilt....of this?

"Educate" for a lack of better words at times, (I feel) is often similar to the word "understand". I myself would not intend to claim someone "uneducated" if they followed the law and had their own opinions on management etc.

However, one needs to understand the impact of over harvest or not catch and releasing prime producers in cold water resources!
Especially in habitat like streams in SE MN!

I guess from my personal point of view, if you enjoy trout fishing you should be concerned about trout fishing. If you like walleye fising in a particular body of water, you should be concerned about that particular body of water and walleye.

Same goes for crappie, musky and on and on.
Granted, some subscribe to the elitist platform, which in turn, turns many people off and most often creates an environment for
negative reaction. Not good.

IN a way, you labeled me and those other "Trout fisherman" who are genuinely concerned about fish and their habitat....across the specie board that don't push what you call "ethics"?

Good question for sure. I would like an elitist to answer or explain their perspective?LOL

Keep the rods bendin'!!!

Jim W

[This message has been edited by Jim W (edited 04-13-2004).]

[JP Z]

I can't say I'm an elitist. I have to agree with Jim, at least on the river I fish I know the majority of the people believe that it is stocked so "hey why not kill a bunch of trout." But in actuality the trout are naturally reproducing so basically education is the biggest thing people NEED to be made aware of things. The only reason I'm concerned about not keeping a lot of fish out of the river (I'll be honest I have kept a limit of small brookies out of it) is mainly because it is the only good stream in my area and if everyone were to fish it and keep a bunch of trout that would just hurt the system. It isn't a river like the ones in the SE part of the state or over in WI that boast 6,000 Trout per mile. I would think it only has much less than a quarter of that. So I just don't want to see the river become a wasteland.

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Tight Lines,

JP Z

[Jim W]

I must add,

IN some streams in SE MN total Catch and release can actually do harm to trout and their habitat.

Jim

[Renneberg]

Say_der, die hard trout anglers aren't the only group of anglers that sometimes try to push their ethics on other anglers.

Die hard Muskie and Bass fishermen have been practicing catch and release for so long now that keeping a fish is almost unheard of among any angler that fishes for them (die hard or not), and in some cases you'll become a outcast if you keep one or catch one using live bait.

Having said that I think the real question to ask is why do we die hard trout anglers get the "look" when we encourage someone to practice catch and release of anysize trout, ex-specially big trout?

I've never look down on any angler that keeps trout, because I am one of them.

I how ever pratice selective harvest. Keeping only a few of the common 8-12 inchers and letting go the rest.

Some rivers I've fished for year and still have yet to keep one trout from it. The reason is that I feel that there just aren't many trout in the river, so taking a few out could do real harm to the population in the river.

I agree with what Jim said about the elitist platform and how it often turns people away from that kind of fishing for trout. It can also keep anglers who fish for warm water fish from fishing for trout.

I feel that angler and groups who think like that do more harm to trout fisheries then good.

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"Study to be quiet"

[JP Z]

Great point Renneberg,

I completely forgot about Muskie Mania and the elitist that surround it. Honestly in general I don't really like to keep many different types of fish. I love a good fish meal but the only species I keep are Walleyes, crappies, pike, and trout(from lakes) I practice very strict catch and release on bass, especially Smallmouths. I am more concerned over the bronzeback then I am over the stream trout.
Education just needs to be "enforced" if that's what you want to call it. I just think people really need to be more informed about the bodies of water that they fish. But of course then it takes away from the joys of fishing if you have to go through a class every couple of months just to be brought up to speed on the state of the union in the waters that you fish.

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Tight Lines,

JP Z

[say_der]

Jim W - good point on me labeling the "educators."

Jim W & Renneberg - you're right about the muskie and bass fishermen crowd too. I just don't hear it as much from them maybe because I don't pay as much attention to fishing for those species.

jpz - I agree with you on the "put and take" mentality of harvesting the stocked fish. This past winter was the worst one I can remember on Courthouse lake. It seems that more and more people go on opener every year - and bring their limit home. I didn't take a single fish out out that all winter. It was fished out in a matter of days it seemed. I know these fish don't naturally reproduce in there, but it's not like they can't survive in there too.

Maybe I'm the one who needs to change my attitude and possibly become more vocal at times. As much as I enjoy it, I should be shouting it from the roof tops. I am concerned about the quality of our fishing, rivers and lakes. But I am incredibly guilty of doing nothing to remedy this, unless being a member of Trout Unlimited helps.

My problem is that I'm not very outgoing. Words that I'm thinking don't always come out of my mouth the way I want (my wife says I talk slow, so I'm hoping it's a case of my brain being able to work faster than my mouth). Anyway, does someone have a tactful way to approach people who don't understand the importance of catch and release? How can we do this without forcing our ethics onto people?

[JP Z]

say_der,

I wish I had a good answer for you. Because I don't know how either. The only thing I can think of is educating our children and their friends, etc. If the future generations understand C&R then maybe we have a chance. Cause it is difficult to say NO to a kid.

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Tight Lines,

JP Z

[Jim W]

It takes quite a bit of work, but My Trout Day is one method. I would caution joining any "special interest" groups, with out detailed research on their philisophies etc!

Jim W

[JP Z]

Good point Jim,

I will admit I am a new member of TU (I joined at the Great Waters Expo.) Basically it was a good deal and a friend of mine is a member and the organization is doing good things in my area at least as far as river conditioning, etc. You don't have to believe in everything they do, but some of the things are very good.

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Tight Lines,

JP Z

[Renneberg]

Telling people to release their catch is never a easy thing to do, but I feel you can do it without coming right out and saying it.

Many of the people I talk to along the stream just don't know how to fish for trout other then how they are currently fishing for them.

The easiest way to fish for trout is with live bait and that's why it's the most popular way to fish for trout.

I try to encourage or "educate" bait fishermen to try other methods of fishing for trout, like hardwear or flies. If I can get them interested enofe to try throwing hardwear or flies, instead of bait, then I know I've save many trout from being gut hook and killed.

Getting that person to try a different way of fishing for trout has moved them one step closer to praticing catch and release. If they really like it then they will be telling friends and family about a great new way to catch trout.

I also try to "educate" fly fishermen about how I use lures like rapalas, spinners and solf plastics for trout. Not every fly fishermen I meet is interested, but every now and then I come across one that is blowen away by what I use, and will most likly be trying it in the near future.

I do the same when I'm fly fishing.

Interestinly (sp?) I've come across more spin fishermen that are interested in fly fishing, then fly fishermen interested in hardwear fishing.

When I ask them why they've never tried fly fishing for trout they tell me one of two things.

1. It's looks like it cost a lot of money to get started and this way is cheaper.

2. Many of the fly fishermen I meet seem full of themselves and won't talk to me when they see the kind of rod I'm carrying.

That adittude towards fly fishermen carries over to groups like TU, even though TU isn't a fly fishing only group, but is largly made up of fly fishermen. To only make matters worse, many of TU's members make it no secret that they hate everyone and anyone who doesn't fish for trout with a fly rod.

It's members like that that really hold TU back from more of a major impact on Minnesota's trout streams.

How big of a impact could TU have on Minnesota's trout streams? Well think of it this way. Fly fishermen (which is the heart of TU or at lease that's how it looks to me) represent the smallest group of trout anglers in this state. Bait fishermen represent over half of the states trout anglers, with hardwear anglers representing a little over 30%.

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"Study to be quiet"

[This message has been edited by Renneberg (edited 04-14-2004).]

[JP Z]

I've still never fly fished for trout. So I'm one of the minority in the TU membership I'm guessing. I just joined because for the Brainerd area. I know the president pretty good and well it seemed like a good thing to do. If for nothing else to learn more about my prey and also hopefully be able to make a difference in the streams I fish with helping build them up.

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Tight Lines,

JP Z

[Roughfisher]

Good topic, I fly fish trout in streams and I kill browns whenever I want a meal of them. I release all the native brookies, unless the stream is chock full of them and they are stunting. Any brook over ten inches goes back regardless.

I guess the main reason I flyfish is because it works so dang good, chucking a clouser minnow is no different than chucking a sinking rapala except the clouser costs me only 15 cents to build, rapalas are at least three bucks apiece. If you're not fishing close to woody cover you are missing out on some big fish so you are bound to lose a lot of lures. I can fish in the snags where the big ones are and lose ten lures and it it only cost me a buck fifty, losing raps at that rate I'd go broke. Plus I don't like the way treble hooks, even barbless, tear up their face so bad. Not a big deal as long as you are eating them instead of releasing mangled trout. So anyway, for me it's simple economics - once you have a flyrod, a vise, and shoot a couple deer to make flies with, fishing with a flyrod costs nothing except gas money and a pack of fly hooks once a year.

[tie flyer]

Glad this was brought up again. I had a few cents to throw in at one time, but work's got me busy...

Anyway, to me it's not economics that drives me to fly fish. I tie far too many flies for that logic to hold water. In fact, I probably tie far too many flies, period. Which brings me to the real reason: I like to tie flies. I'm not the best at it, I'm not real fast, but I just found something that I really enjoy.

The only thing I enjoy more (in terms of hobbies) than tying flies is catching fish on flies I've tied. I don't even care so much what species of fish I catch. Actually, I tend to favor new species on a fly. The main thing for me is that I just think it's cool to take some steel and fur, twist it up with a few feathers and dupe a (preferably wild) fish into thinking it's alive.

This is pretty subjective, I realize, but that's the whole point. Do what you enjoy - within certain bounds.

The only thing I have to add is that the aforementioned wild preference has a great deal to play in the c&r mentality. Wild fish tend to have more refined instincts - they're harder to catch.

I grew up thinking that the limit was a goal. It was a quantifiable success. How many times have I heard "I got my limit"? A lot, and I've said it a lot myself.

When fishing for trout I prefer not to think of limits. Trout tend to reside in some of the most remotely beautiful places. A trout stream is a dynamic and mysterious little ecosystem. A day spent on trout water can seem like a world completely different from the one we commonly know. I don't like to put a limit on that.

[smellzalilfishee]

A quote from the late Lee Wulff " Game fish are to valuable to only be caught once"