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LwnmwnMan2

Texas Hold 'em question

50 posts in this topic

Say you're at a card room playing a smaller game, 3/6, maybe 2/4 and the dealer miss reads the cards and starts to push the pot to someone else than the winner, which isn't yourself.

Is it proper etiquette to speak up, if you're the only one that notices, or are you supposed to keep your mouth shut, that if the person that's supposed to win the pot doesn't say anything, you don't say anything?

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You should say something. Problem is they usually have the cards raked in and won't be able to tell. Had it happen at Harrahs in Kansas City to me once, only I was the one awarded the pot. They called up to the video room, and then after looking they realized the dealer made a mistake, but then they couldn't figure out how much was in the pot, so they let me keep it. The lady who lost (but had actually won) was a little upset, but there really was nothing they could to to make it fair to everyone involved. Imagine them pushing a $35 pot to me, then "guessing" there was $40 in it and taking that from me- I'd be out $5

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When it comes to issues like that I'm always honest. I believe in Karma.

I cannot say I'm always honest with my table talk, but that's expected right? grin

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99.9% of the time dealers will not make that mistake(unless your playing at home, getting tuned up). I played a TON of Hold Em when i was living in vegas, and I never seen that happen once. I have watched the wrong guy, on numerous occasions, reach out and start pullin the pot. Normally the dealer catches it pretty quick, but I have seen them go upstairs for a "general" idea of what the pot may have been. Most good hold em dealers are trained to let the hands lay for at least a few seconds(so all players can see what just happened to their 50 bucks). In your case, say something right away. The sooner you announce there may have been a problem, the better chance it will get fixed.

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Loud and proud if you are sure. You may be wrong and make a fool of yourself but at least you are lookin out for the integrity of the game. I would say something even if I was not in the pot and if it was me with the winning hand you know I would be all over it. In our home games we always have a rule that the cards speak for themselves. If somebody miss calls their hand and should actually win then they win, period.

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I was playing out at Running Aces, since I live about 5 minutes from there.

I've just started playing within the last year +/-.

I ask, because the guy that ended up losing the pot, after I called the dealer on it, kinda got on me. It wasn't a large pot, about $25.

He said you might want to watch what you say, that there may be guys that will take it up with you when you leave.

I knew what he was inferring, but at the same point I wanted to make sure I was doing the right thing in the game.

Earlier in the night, a dealer gave a $6 pot to the guy next to me, even though we should have chopped the pot. I didn't care, because it was just $3, but the guy ended up sliding me the $3 a couple hands later, he knew what had happened.

I understand too... it's 4 am, we've been playing all night, there was alot of banter, guy says Aces, high kicker other guy shows Ace / three, dealer starts to award the pot to the guy with the good kicker, didn't realize the "3" made a straight.

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If you miss call your hand you are SOL. If you aren't in the hand it's not your place to say anything. The players are responsible for their own cards.

In a casino the dealer is in charge but you still have to PAY ATTENTION. Money is on the line and you have to take care of your money not someone else's.

Seems a little harsh but poker is about taking other peoples money. That is the goal. If you don't know the rules and the etiquette you shouldn't be playing for money. If you are playing for fun anything goes as it's a friendly game. You play in a big money game and stick your nose into a hand you aren't even playing you will get dealt with. That's the way it is. Kind of an unwritten code of conduct.

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If you miss call your hand you are SOL. If you aren't in the hand it's not your place to say anything. The players are responsible for their own cards.

In a casino the dealer is in charge but you still have to PAY ATTENTION. Money is on the line and you have to take care of your money not someone else's.

Seems a little harsh but poker is about taking other peoples money. That is the goal. If you don't know the rules and the etiquette you shouldn't be playing for money. If you are playing for fun anything goes as it's a friendly game. You play in a big money game and stick your nose into a hand you aren't even playing you will get dealt with. That's the way it is. Kind of an unwritten code of conduct.

Yes, big money game I understand, and I believe that's what this guy's point was. That's why I stick to 2/4 - 3/6. I was playing big time (for me anyways) 3/6-kill.

All night we were right behind the 20-60 game and it was nothing but bickering, yelling, calling floor over. I couldn't handle that, that's not fun to me.

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Sounds like you had an inexperienced dealer that night. Very rarely are pots awarded to the wrong person. I guess it's just me, but I'd rather win small fair and square then to take home a huge pot by mistake.

He had no right to imply a threat towards you, that is just wrong. I would've called the floor over and had a little discussion about it.

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I agree you need to say something, I have been on the other side of this before. I was playing at the casino right next to Mill Lacs when this happen. The dealer mucked my cards and started pushing the pot the other way, I right away spoke up, The guy next's to me also spoke up. The dealer asked for the mangers and i told them to go to the cameras. I won the pot because of the other guy being truthful. The guy i was going against did say a few word but i made sure to put him in his place smile It was a $150+ dollar pot

The dealers do seem to forget what's going on some times, they are talking to the players and not concentrating on the game. I have seen that happen so many times!!

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Originally Posted By: koonie
If you miss call your hand you are SOL. If you aren't in the hand it's not your place to say anything. The players are responsible for their own cards.

In a casino the dealer is in charge but you still have to PAY ATTENTION. Money is on the line and you have to take care of your money not someone else's.

Seems a little harsh but poker is about taking other peoples money. That is the goal. If you don't know the rules and the etiquette you shouldn't be playing for money. If you are playing for fun anything goes as it's a friendly game. You play in a big money game and stick your nose into a hand you aren't even playing you will get dealt with. That's the way it is. Kind of an unwritten code of conduct.

Yes, big money game I understand, and I believe that's what this guy's point was. That's why I stick to 2/4 - 3/6. I was playing big time (for me anyways) 3/6-kill.

All night we were right behind the 20-60 game and it was nothing but bickering, yelling, calling floor over. I couldn't handle that, that's not fun to me.

I didn't mean to make it sound like I was chewing ya out or anything. Just so you know. wink

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Quote:
I was playing out at Running Aces

Figured that as soon as I read the first post.

I'm not going to bash them too bad because Running Aces 2-60 game is to die for.grin But the dealers and the entire gaming staff for that matter are very inexperienced.

After being spoiled at Canterbury it was quite a shock to see the huge differences in the two operations. In fairness they are New and most of Canterbury's dealers have been with them 10 years plus or more in some cases.

Most often if you pay close attention to the hand and speak up quickly you can catch dealer mistakes before it's to late.

Koonie is a bit off on some of his Poker etiquette information he has given above.

Cards speak (cards read for themselves) meaning if you announce a pair of 2's but actually have 4 Aces it doesn't matter you get credit for your actual hand which is 4 aces!

That's in any Casino or Tournament, and, in every home game I've ever played in also.

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That is why I pretty much just show every hand regardless. I've actually won a few pots that I thought I had lost because I misread my hand.

Just turn em up and let the dealer determine the winner.

On a side note, 2-60 sounds like fun smile

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I actually like the card room out here more than Canterbury.

Canterbury has 2/4 games like the 2/60 game out here, people want to call you on having too many chips in your hand when it crosses the line, stupid stuff.

Out here it's pretty laid back, and I think that's some of the issue, much like Pier mentioned.

I'd like to jump in that 2/60 game one time, but when I see guys roll up with $3,000 to get in, and I come to the room with my freshly printed $100, I think I'm a little undermatched. laugh

Like I said, that 3/6-kill game was big time for me the other night, and I was only playing that because I'd pulled $300 off the blackjack table.

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As far as poker rooms go, I think Treasure Island has the best.

The 2-10 game is a fun one. I wish more games were kill games, I like that format.

I'm going to hit one of those bad beats one of these days.......

A while back I was so close I could taste it. Had A 10 in the hole and the board was A 10 K A K. Other guy had pkt K's, unfortunately my 10 was counterfited by the K's on the board and my 10 didn't play. The bad beat was at $95,000 that night madfrown

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Mis calling a hand should have nothing to do with the outcome of the hand if you have a dealer who is worth his salt. Sounds like this place has some really green dealers if they can't get things straight. I have seen some people who want to stick the needle into another player who will slow roll quads and when the other guy says he has a full house the guy with the quads said, I only have two pair, a pair of sevens and another pair of sevens! Verbal declarations are not binding, unlike verbal intentions which are binding (call, raise, check, etc) The cards do and should speak for themselves and it is up to the dealer to get it right before they muck the cards.

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I think the unspoken rule is to keep your mouth shut unless ur in the hand. Its not just the dealers job to see the winning hand. The guy that had the winning hand should have seen it and said something.

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I believe the cards speak for themselves. I've had a friend actually almost throw away a Royal Flush becuase all he saw was the straight at first and thought he lost to a flush. He ended up showing the cards and was told he won the hand.

I couldn't help but point out the fact he had the royal flush, first and only one I've ever seen.

I still can't imagine holding a royal flush without even knowing it, he couldn't even enjoy the it since we all gave him so much carp about it. That was over a year ago now and he still hasn't lived it down. Of course now he swears he saw it.

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I think the unspoken rule is to keep your mouth shut unless ur in the hand. Its not just the dealers job to see the winning hand. The guy that had the winning hand should have seen it and said something.

100 percent incorrect.

I think some of us are getting confused. It's the Dealers and the players jobs to protect the integrity of the game. In other words get the correct result. You are right about keeping your mouth shut during a hand you are not involved in but that's an etiquette issue and has nothing to do with the Basic rule of Texas Hold-em that at the end of the Hand the CARDS READ! Once the hand is over you do everything possible to get the chips to the Winning hand.

As far as Casino's go my Favs 5 is no-limit at Turtle, Treasure Island, Black Bear, Jackpot J, and now running Aces.

Canterbury has the most skilled dealers IMO and you get more hands played with less potential for problems.

The Running Aces 2-60 game is a $50 minimum $200 max buy in! So don't be a afraid to give that a whirl... grin

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200 max?

Nice

That could possilbly be one hand though smile

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I agree with what has been said during the hand if you are not in you keep your mouth shut and watch. when the cards are all layed out and the betting is over that is when you can open your mouth again and if the dealer and the players involved are incorrect you should step-in and correct them and make sure the winner gets his or her winnings.......but when money is involved always use your best judgement on whether to oen your mouth or not......shady charachters at the table you might just keep it shut, if they are friendly or in a casual environment then talk away. That is my opinion though.......

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ok.. I play online quite a bit, but have never played in a casino.. what is a kill game?.. is that the same as a sit n go online?

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A kill game, or kill pot is when they double the blinds when the same person wins the pot twice in a row and keeps doubling as long as the same person keeps winning.

Just a fun little twist.

I’ve been playing a 2/4 kill game where the blinds have been 16/32. Very rare to win 4 in a row, but it has happened on occasion.

They of course revert back to the original level after someone else wins a pot.

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Quote:
I was playing out at Running Aces, since I live about 5 minutes from there.

Is Running Aces that new harness racetrack out where Trout-Air used to be on I35? I heard the poker room opened up awhile back.

I love track betting grin. I used to be a junky out at St. Croix Meadows back in the day wink

How is the place?

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