Guests - If You want access to member only forums on HSO. You will gain access only when you sign-in or Sign-Up on HotSpotOutdoors.

It's easy - LOOK UPPER right menu.

Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Wade Joseph

Gov't running GM and Chrysler?

251 posts in this topic

Does anyone else think this is very bad thing? I will admit, having GM and/or Chrysler go down the drain is not a good thing, but shouldn't companies be allowed to succeed or fail by their own hand not by being directed in how they must do business?

I see where the Gov't has told GM if they want any more of your or my tax dollars they must scrap the Volt, phase out Trucks and SUV's and concentrate on "greener" cars. Oh, and they tell GM they must fire the CEO. Why not the UAW CEO, AIG's CEO, or any of the other companies who have their hands in the gov't cookie jar as well. Are they not also in the same boat as GM's CEO? Why are they not all held to the same standards?

Ok, I am a Ford fan, but do not think its a good thing that they become the only legitimate Truck MFG simply because GM has been told to stop making them and Fiat doesn't either. The F150 has been the best selling truck on its value and appeal....now it will be Number one in a field of ONE?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't believe anyone is wild about the gov't taking over anything - banks, companies, manufacturers, etc. The disagreement comes in as you've noted, whether to let the market work it's magic.

This is how government works. The last three decades have been marked by increasingly unregulated free markets in everything from airlines to banking to investments, & see where that got us? The natural gov't reaction is to overreact in the opposite direction (control) to appease the angry mobs.

So the question is really: who is too big to fail? Maybe we should identify ALL of those companies, not just the banks, & put a new layer of regulation on them, since it looks like we're all going to end up owing pieces of them (at least temporarily) anyways?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is plawnety of regulation the grovernment didn't in fore it. To big to fall than why did the regulaters allowe companys to merge into big ones. This is what this country was built on. Risk and reward.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do not think ANYONE is too big to fail. When a company fails, usually, after a time, the other companies in the same line of work pick of the pieces and grow stronger. Survival of the fittest of sorts. Somewhere we got off track. Maybe it came from the entitlement mindset. It needs to stop before the Gov't is running everything. THAT my friends would be very VERY bad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think banks and insurance companies have to be delt on a different level than a car manufacturer. AIG Co was replaced last year.

As far as how far the reach is for the government to tell what GM to do I dont think it goes as deep as you want to make it out to be. The government gave a deadline to come up with a viable buisness plan and it was rejected then gave them time to come up with another one along with suggestions that can be nagotiated on. As for fireing the CO he was aked to step down and he took his 23 million option and did so.

I feel GM will eventualy end up in a controlled bankruptcy in the end, should have gone that rout in the first place, that is one reason, I feel the CO stepped down because he saw the writting on the wall and took his money while he could.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree Wade. Where does it stop? This is going to drag it out longer. We can't afford it either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did you hear now that Barney Frank wants the government to be able to control the salaries and wages of these companies they bail out? We should reach full socialisism by this christmas I think. sick

If the government wants to control wages and salaries of subsidized/bailed out businesses then would that mean Mr. Brunicks ($423,000) and Tubby ($1,009,616), Brewster( 805,930), James Mccormick (MNSCU Chief=$401,940),Joe Dowling (Guthrie Chief=682,000)

William Kling (Chief of MPR=$376,000) would have their salaries "regulated" as well. These folks make at least 10x the average MN employee. Time to level the playing field for ALL.

These stats can be found at http://ww2.startribune.com/projects/np100/CEOcompView.html?order=-1

confusedmadcool

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's the problem that comes with having government/public funds going into the companies. You get gov't funds, then the gov't gets a say in your operations.

This is why they never should have put any government bailout or rescue funds into any bank, insurance company, car company, etc.

But this is going to make it worse. The government couldn't successfully operate their own cafeteria, much less a car company or a major financial institution.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is how government works. The last three decades have been marked by increasingly unregulated free markets in everything from airlines to banking to investments, & see where that got us? The natural gov't reaction is to overreact in the opposite direction (control) to appease the angry mobs.

This is how BIG government works.

During the last three decades of increasing deregulation many prospered and profited, if not directly in business, working for a business that was doing well, or like many of us profiting from excellent returns in the markets. Nothing comes without risk, and ultimately some correction.

The current government is certainly overreacting, but also greatly contributing to the anger of the mobs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Correction walleye101, the current government is creating panic. All the doom and gloom speeches need to stop. Bailouts are not working, stop the insanity. They already showed that they will will pass legislation to tax one group of people up to 90%. Yea, I know, they got bonus'. Well that was in the stimulus package and maybe they should have read it before dishing out the cash to begin with.

Now Barney Frank wants to be the one saying the salarie folks can make. They are firing (eh hem, asking to leave) CEO's. You can not believe the gov't being in control of business' is a good idea. Socialism does not work. These folks are radical to say the least. Bad times are here and they are getting worse. They can't even run the gov't and now they're going to run companies? It's not like a comunity organizer, this is the big time. You need to have others that know finance looking at this.

I know, I know, they inherited a defecit from the last president. But does that excuse them from spending more money in four months than what was spent between George Washington and George W..... Combined!!!!

Rediculous!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The truth of the matter now, is that our future lies in the government, and that scares me. If history has proved anything time and again , the Federal Govt. has no idea what to do with any money that we give them, look at Medica, Social Security, or any other big money deal the govt. has dealt with. Anything good??? NO, NO, NO. Do you honestly think that we should have bailed out AIG? [PLEASE READ FORUM POLICY BEFORE POSTING, THANK YOU] I think the government getting involved in any bailout was ridicolous and irresponsible. Do you want the government running YOUR company, just to keep your job??? If the govt would have just let the FREE MARKET this country was built on, weed out the irresbonsible companys this mess would be over a whole lot faster. I run a small buisness and this is not going to help my buisness anytime soon, or any of my customers. I do not want to see GM or Chrysler fail, as I own a Chev Pickup(and love them) and have worked for a chrysler dealership in the past(that wage payed for my wedding) but they should go into Bankruptcy like any other buisness would be expected to do. But it's to late WE (not the government) already gave them money. The bottom line of the auto crisis is that TO MUCH regulation and C.A.F.E. standards are what made the companys have to put un marketable cars on the market. [PLEASE READ FORUM POLICY BEFORE POSTING, THANK YOU]

Sorry I blew up,I'm just sick of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The government couldn't successfully operate their own cafeteria, much less a car company or a major financial institution.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ahh,I wouldn't worry about it too much,for many,many,years to some extent the Govt. has controled the incomes of millions of private business's and decides whether they sink or swim-ever heard of farm subsidies?

We own ground that the Govt. pays us NOT to farm-CRP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just remember, GM and Chrysler asked for the help.

If you think the government really wants to control these companies, you're kidding yourself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just remember, GM and Chrysler asked for the help.

If you think the government really wants to control these companies, you're kidding yourself.

Gotta admit it would be a heck of a way to force them to make "Green" cars that nobody wants.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quote:
Just remember, GM and Chrysler asked for the help.

If you think the government really wants to control these companies, you're kidding yourself.

<sigh> I should have known better than to try to take the question seriously & not come at it from a partisan angle.

Hanson, thanks for the voice of reason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

let them fail. let capitalism work.

it's not a matter of too big to fail. it's a matter of too much political pull for the politicians to let fail.

screw 'em.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you think the government really wants to control these companies, you're kidding yourself.

I hope I'm wrong, but I think this government really does. Yes it does, Yes it does.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I too was starting to get worried when the government started to get into the dealings of public run companies.

Obama and crew are trying to do what's best for the people now (In His Opinion) to bolster the economy with the bank bail out to get people lending money.

I dont know what to make of the auto industry issue. All I can say is good for him to start telling it like it is with them and not just give them a free hand out.

The auto industry is a little complex because if you let one or both of the companies fail, then there is a chain of suppliers that also will probably go out of business with it. There for limiting supplies on parts which inturn would probably raise prices there too.

The industry made a lot of bad decisions with how they paid executives and how they negotiated with the unions etc. The wages them selves, making $50-80 bucks an hour to put pieces together. Seems way out of line.

I do believe that bancruptcy is what would be best for the auto manufacturers to cut the fat and get back to a manageable position.

Now when in Bancruptcy you loose customer confidence and sales will probably fall dramatically, and suppliers would go out of business because they wouldnt get paid etc. But the only good part of it woudl be that they could renegotiate a leaner contract with the union or get out from them all together.

But if Government has their nose in the picture, they should limit salaries for execs at companies in bancruptcy so the cheese goes where it is suppose to.

Truthfully I dont care either way, as long as Dodge still makes their trucks 10 years from now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quote:
I hope I'm wrong, but I think this government really does. Yes it does, Yes it does.

Nah - they mostly just want the power to TAX everything....

Including the air that we breathe.....out...

Because EVERYBODY emits a little CO2 at some point in their life....

Even the very best government workers and the yuppies at Starbucks....

In the case of the automotive companies, however, I think the motivation might be a little simpler. If the companies fail completely, and are not able to take care of their employees and retirees, the government will have to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think from the beginning if any corporation received bailout money the leadership should change. These guys ran their company to the ground and they stay and receive millions. Come on, basic business says change leadership so a company can again flourish (at least that is the hope). I'm glad CEO was forced to step down and their board had changes. Why would you want to keep someone who to run a company that lost 90% of their stock price. All these CEO's are leaving with a fat check. No I'm not a fan of all the bailout that is going on, but I think wallstreet is getting a big wake up call in the midst of overpriced executive pay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think from the beginning if any corporation received bailout money the leadership should change. These guys ran their company to the ground and they stay and receive millions. Come on, basic business says change leadership so a company can again flourish (at least that is the hope). I'm glad CEO was forced to step down and their board had changes. Why would you want to keep someone who to run a company that lost 90% of their stock price. All these CEO's are leaving with a fat check. No I'm not a fan of all the bailout that is going on, but I think wallstreet is getting a big wake up call in the midst of overpriced executive pay.

I don't disagree with you on this, but, it IS NOT the place of gov't or a President to go to a company and tell a CEO to step down. It's a slippery slope and we are on a course that is going to hurt us long term IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Originally Posted By: hanson
If you think the government really wants to control these companies, you're kidding yourself.

I hope I'm wrong, but I think this government really does. Yes it does, Yes it does.

I agree, this administration, I feel, does. They want control of everything. I've always said, having a President and Congress in the same party is no good for the people. It's like giving a crack head a blank check. They've already spent all our money for the rest of our lives and probably our children's. Now they are working on our Grandchildren's money.

Best part, they managed to give themselves pay raises during this time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not much of a person for conspiracy theories, but I think this is part of the grand plan.

Over and over, we have heard from one side of government that the reason the automakers are in trouble is because they are producing SUVs and trucks that nobody will buy. Take a look around. AT LEAST 50% of what is on the road is a pickup truck or SUV (I'd look up the stat, but I'm trying to make this quick). Nothing kills the environmentalists more than these two classes of vehicles.

Have you checked out who is on the auto advisory board? It isn't people with business management experience, or experience in the auto field. It is environmentalists and, climate change "experts", and an EPA administrator. I believe that their plan is to phase out GM and Chrysler's bigger vehicles, and build "smart cars". If you want to talk about a vehicle that literally 99.9% of people in American do not want, it would be these little tiny go karts. In the end, sales of these cars will be so mediocre, that both companies will either be on the government pay roll, or be forced into bankruptcy.

I think that this creates an incredible opportunity for Ford. The PR alone from avoiding a government bailout is going to boost sales. If they are the only remaining manufacturer of SUV's and trucks, they will also capture that huge portion of the market.

Call it a conspiracy if you will, but I would bet a lot of money that in 5 years we will look back, and this will be pretty close to what happens.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0