Guests - If You want access to member only forums on HSO. You will gain access only when you Sign-in or Sign-Up on HotSpotOutdoors.

It's easy - LOOK UPPER right menu.

Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Cooter

Yet another bucktail question

25 posts in this topic

I've noticed a lot of the bigger bucktails with two trebles often have the rear or tail hook a size larger than the front hook. Seems backwards to me - wouldn't you want the bigger hook up front due to its proximity to the blades? Nothing to get in the way of the rear treble so I'd guess thats where the smaller hook would go. Any comments/theories? Thanks, later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you go too large up front it can and will effect the action of the bait. I have in fact, removed the front trebbles on many of my larger bucktails, or replaced them with a single hook set-up.

Most of the strikes come from behind and if they do hit at or just behind the blades, a good hookset will drive the back hooks home.

JMHO.

"Ace"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wish we had a Q and A area on here without starting a new topic. I wanted to ask guideman are some guides lowering their rates do to our economy or are you guys booked as busy as ever ? The average guy me can't afford to justify it based on monetary needs in desperate times with a mountain of bills, just curious. My bucktail question would be do they get out of tune so to speak. I notice on beat up ones sometimes they swirl around like the hook in circles on the way in, tie on a new one and it doesn't do that, any info on that ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sometimes you have to reshaft, a little bend or kink in the wrong place would cause the problems you're talking about. Wire shafts are $.35 a piece, loop one end, transfer your components, and loop the finish end. Good as new!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds good, thanks, I do bend rebend etc. it just seems they get out of how they run and I've had trouble getting old ones to run like the new ones, I guess it's time to do away with some of those old ones.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quote:
have in fact, removed the front trebbles on many of my larger bucktails, or replaced them with a single hook set-up.

reminds me of the eagle tail and how perfect they run with two siwash. George may have thought it was all in the name but i would have dissagreed smile ... IMO, it is the smoothness of the lure. a lot also has to do with the oversized wire with it's weight distribution through the bait. i'm really bummed i never got to know him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know some musky fishermen and guides who remove the upper treble because they have hooked fish in the eye before. I personally have never had that happen, and may change the way I do things if I do, but for now I use two trebles on most all of my bucktails. The exception is very small bucktails or eagletails.

Muskies are "head hunters" much of the time, swooping around to come in from the front or side. I have lost fish in the past by having them T-Bone it when I only had a rear treble. This done with a 9 foot Bulldawg Rod and a 700TE with the drag cranked down as tight as she goes. I guarantee you there was plenty of hookset, but those fish can have an awfully strong bite/grip.

I had one on Vermilion last season that T-Boned a Llungen DC-9. It bit down so hard on that lure that when I set the hook, it completely shredded off all of the silicone. And I didn't get the fish! I wasn't too bummed though because that same bait had caught three fish that evening. I did add another treble after that though. I used one larger than the rear treble, and it performed fine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've talked with Brad Hoppe about this and when the DCG was new, a guide on mille lacs was taking the lead hook off and could not catch a fish with a DCG. Another guide there was leaving the hook on and raving about the fishing with the double 10's. The two guide's had a bit of a dispute until they found out the first one was taking the lead treble off. Once he put them back on, well you can guess what happened to his hooking percentages!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Every fish I have ever caught on a DCG was hooked primarily on the front treble. I've talked with a bunch of guides about it and from what I've heard 90% of muskies caught on DCG's get hooked on the front treble.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldn't expect the guy that makes them, to tell you there is a better way than his.

I have yet to lose a fish on a double 10 with a single hook on the front or with the front trebble removed.

Single hooks are a very viable option over trebble hooks on a number of baits. They will run through weeds a lot better and the hook-up % ages have been excellent for me.

So whatever, do what you must.

"Ace"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldn't expect the guy that makes them, to tell you there is a better way than his.

I've heard the guide who was losing all the fish tell the same story... wink

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We've caught a lot of fish on the Llungen DC10's, with one rear treble. I can't think of a time we got bit and didn't get hooks into her, which is not to say a front hook wouldn't come in handy someday on some fish.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quote:
I did add another treble after that though. I used one larger than the rear treble, and it performed fine.

lungens are keel weighted. with that system they wouldn't be affected. unless a guy went nuts and put a 8/0 on it up front, lol. i fish with one, two on up to 4 hooks on my personal concoctions. i prefer a 5/0 4X over bigger hooks, they just sink in better for me, and are plenty strong. or a 6/0 up to 8/0 siwash. i get some flack about my love affair with semi-small treble hooks but my defense is always the same... they sink in better for me and i believe i lose less on the strike so i get a chance to fight them. my PB 51 1/2'' was on a 5/0 eagle claw. and she was a metro river fish (croix) with energy up the ying yang. ramble over, smile

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Somewhat of an off topic question, but what are the best hooks and how small is too small.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is some personal preference here. However, my favorite hook is made by Gamakatsu. My second favorite are by VMC. I almost always use round-bend trables. Size is dependent on lure size. I have used some small-ish hooks before as well. I use anything from 2/0 on some small lures to 5/0 & 6/0 on my largest lures. I have also used standard hooks as well as the 2X and 4X. My PB 48" muskie I caught on has size 2/0 trebles with just standard-strength hooks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some baits are designe to run a specific size hook otherwise I think it's up to the angler to use what they prefer. Some like the lighter wire because they get better penitration and they are easier to cut if you have to.

You don't want to go to small on a big bait, but sometimes to big can effect the action of the lure and you don't want that either.

"Ace"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Originally Posted By: guideman
I wouldn't expect the guy that makes them, to tell you there is a better way than his.

I've heard the guide who was losing all the fish tell the same story... wink

I guess that must make you an expert on everything? I think I'll trust my own experience on this one, and you can go by what some guy told you. wink

"Ace"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess that must make you an expert on everything? I think I'll trust my own experience on this one, and you can go by what some guy told you. wink

Nah, i'm no expert, still feel like i'm pretty new at this. I'm just relying a story i know on the subject tryin to help someone.

FWIW, this "some guy" has caught 125+ muskies per year for the last couple years, I think it's worth considering what he has to say. JMHO. smile

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ace, are you a full time guide? And you live on Vermillion? You mentioned in another post you're hoping to put 50 fish in your boat in a year for the first time ever, between you and your clients. The guys Redig is talking about have put nearly fifty 50 inchers in the boat in a season, let alone 50 fish, so I think their experience lends some credibility to what they "told" him, and that experience may be just as valuable to a reader as yours.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ace, are you a full time guide? And you live on Vermillion? You mentioned in another post you're hoping to put 50 fish in your boat in a year for the first time ever, between you and your clients. The guys Redig is talking about have put nearly fifty 50 inchers in the boat in a season, let alone 50 fish, so I think their experience lends some credibility to what they "told" him, and that experience may be just as valuable to a reader as yours.

Hey propster,

His post was a shot at me and that was pretty obvious to me.

I have caught a few in my life as well, I think my opinion is just as valid as "superguides"

are.

You make it sound like anybody can catch 50 muskies in a season, like it's nothing, how many did you catch last year?

"Ace"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ace, sorry you took it that way. It's not what I meant and not what I said. He never took a shot at you, he was merely supporting another opinion. And when you doubted that opinion and called him an expert, I was merely pointing out that the guys he was talking about had some pretty good experience as well, perhaps even more than you, and a lot more than me. No offense meant, and if I stated it in a way that made you take offense I apologize.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would love to able to say that I put 50 fish in my boat every year let alone 50 fish that are 50 plus inches. Its nice to be able to get advice from so many people that are able to catch a high number of quality fish. shoot, I'm just hoping to catch ten muskies this year and thats pretty far fetch.

I was thinking of putting some of that rubber tubing you see on DCG & topraiders, on my bucktail hooks. I thought it could help with hookups. I put them on some other baits last year that put fish in my boat.anythoughts?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

His post was a shot at me and that was pretty obvious to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

there is more than just a little merit to single hooks, siwash in particular, it' a time tested style hook in the biggest waters on earth. and they have scientific backing. physics no less. but theres one thing that can never be explained away and that's confidence in what your using. without "it" nothing works.

single hooks don't provide leverage for a fish to pry the hook out. a treble has a hook on either side of another hook and a fish can use those to gain leverage to dislodge the hook ( which is why theres big hooks ). also on the hookset a single hook goes in all alone everytime, a treble can be two or more and can affect penatration because it's harder to set two hooks than one. also it's easier to get them out. i use singles when ever it's feaseable and have confidence in them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0



  • Posts

    • Definitely something to be said about parking it an leaving.  My fees are nothing except the bills I help pay for at the family cabin.  Would hate hooking and unhooking all the time.
    • Still have my old sno-boat. Best portable shelter out there for pulling by hand. You scored a heck of a deal! I feel mine is irreplaceable! I don't use it much, but when I do, I'm so glad I have taken care of it and still have it 16 years later. I've had 1 zipper replaced on the D-door and some patching done at Canvas Craft years ago.  I think the other zipper is on it's way out, and will definitely get that repaired when needed. 
    • If you planning on doing any hand pulling at all then do not get the lodge she is a tank and would not fit in a short box. As long as your not 300+ lbs you'll be perfectly comfortable with 2 adults in the cabin. Also a cheap alternative to Hifax are a set of old downhill skis (normally $7-15 @ goodwill) I pull mine across parking lots all the time behind the wheeler and they hold up really well. An added bonus is if you cut them off at the end of the sled then they work great for loading and unloading the shack from your pickup box by yourself because the steel sides dig into the ground a bit keeping the bottom from sliding out.
    • tip to a couple good friends   Len,
      Thank you for the stream recommendation, Len! I love the layout of this stream. Fished it from 3pm until 6:30pm.  My brother threw panther 9s and I threw 6s. We scored a brookie/brown/bow trifecta.    
    • Nelson has been down in recent years in terms of Walleye fishing. Depends on what kind of water you like to fish. The flowage and Moose Lake are good if you like fishing really dark water. Grindstone and Lac Courte Oreilles, maybe even Round are also good walleye lakes, but those lakes have very clear water and will fish completely different than the dark water river impoundments in the area.
    • I think it would be an offensive and experience(post season) up grade. I all reality, we dont have the means to make the trade.  We are nearly out of money(cap space) and only have 11 players.  We need food cheap role players right now.   Only way would be to package Wiggins with future draft picks.  If the analysts are actually correct on how improved we will be, those draft pick wont carry a ton of value.
    •   Well not as many as up by the Emily-Outing area but a few.
    • Still on the fence between going with the cabin or lodge, my dad has a normal lodge and it has tons of room which is great but it also is somewhat heavy for 1 guy to load and pull it seems. I mostly fish with just 1 other person and maby 25% of the time by myself so that was why I was leaning to the cabin which also seemed to have plenty of room for 2 it seemed to me. Also from what I understand the cabin will fit in chevy crew cab box and the lodge won't? I have a 04 crew cab short box so one more incentive for the cabin if thats true.
    • Sounds perfect, thinking your guys reviews will seal the deal for me once I can see one in person again, a hyfax kit will also be on my list as I plan on pulling it behind my sportsman 570. Thanks for the review also AAmerican, it's early to be thinking ice fishing but I'm sure there's people out there like us that are a little anxious!
    • The Chippewa flowage would be a great place to start. I will be honest. Walleye are not what I have ever chosen to Target when I fish up there but the flowage is a great fishery.    Nelson lake would be another choice.
  • Our Sponsors