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Cooter

Yet another bucktail question

25 posts in this topic

I've noticed a lot of the bigger bucktails with two trebles often have the rear or tail hook a size larger than the front hook. Seems backwards to me - wouldn't you want the bigger hook up front due to its proximity to the blades? Nothing to get in the way of the rear treble so I'd guess thats where the smaller hook would go. Any comments/theories? Thanks, later.

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If you go too large up front it can and will effect the action of the bait. I have in fact, removed the front trebbles on many of my larger bucktails, or replaced them with a single hook set-up.

Most of the strikes come from behind and if they do hit at or just behind the blades, a good hookset will drive the back hooks home.

JMHO.

"Ace"

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I wish we had a Q and A area on here without starting a new topic. I wanted to ask guideman are some guides lowering their rates do to our economy or are you guys booked as busy as ever ? The average guy me can't afford to justify it based on monetary needs in desperate times with a mountain of bills, just curious. My bucktail question would be do they get out of tune so to speak. I notice on beat up ones sometimes they swirl around like the hook in circles on the way in, tie on a new one and it doesn't do that, any info on that ?

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Sometimes you have to reshaft, a little bend or kink in the wrong place would cause the problems you're talking about. Wire shafts are $.35 a piece, loop one end, transfer your components, and loop the finish end. Good as new!

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Sounds good, thanks, I do bend rebend etc. it just seems they get out of how they run and I've had trouble getting old ones to run like the new ones, I guess it's time to do away with some of those old ones.

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Quote:
have in fact, removed the front trebbles on many of my larger bucktails, or replaced them with a single hook set-up.

reminds me of the eagle tail and how perfect they run with two siwash. George may have thought it was all in the name but i would have dissagreed smile ... IMO, it is the smoothness of the lure. a lot also has to do with the oversized wire with it's weight distribution through the bait. i'm really bummed i never got to know him.

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I know some musky fishermen and guides who remove the upper treble because they have hooked fish in the eye before. I personally have never had that happen, and may change the way I do things if I do, but for now I use two trebles on most all of my bucktails. The exception is very small bucktails or eagletails.

Muskies are "head hunters" much of the time, swooping around to come in from the front or side. I have lost fish in the past by having them T-Bone it when I only had a rear treble. This done with a 9 foot Bulldawg Rod and a 700TE with the drag cranked down as tight as she goes. I guarantee you there was plenty of hookset, but those fish can have an awfully strong bite/grip.

I had one on Vermilion last season that T-Boned a Llungen DC-9. It bit down so hard on that lure that when I set the hook, it completely shredded off all of the silicone. And I didn't get the fish! I wasn't too bummed though because that same bait had caught three fish that evening. I did add another treble after that though. I used one larger than the rear treble, and it performed fine.

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I've talked with Brad Hoppe about this and when the DCG was new, a guide on mille lacs was taking the lead hook off and could not catch a fish with a DCG. Another guide there was leaving the hook on and raving about the fishing with the double 10's. The two guide's had a bit of a dispute until they found out the first one was taking the lead treble off. Once he put them back on, well you can guess what happened to his hooking percentages!

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Every fish I have ever caught on a DCG was hooked primarily on the front treble. I've talked with a bunch of guides about it and from what I've heard 90% of muskies caught on DCG's get hooked on the front treble.

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I wouldn't expect the guy that makes them, to tell you there is a better way than his.

I have yet to lose a fish on a double 10 with a single hook on the front or with the front trebble removed.

Single hooks are a very viable option over trebble hooks on a number of baits. They will run through weeds a lot better and the hook-up % ages have been excellent for me.

So whatever, do what you must.

"Ace"

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I wouldn't expect the guy that makes them, to tell you there is a better way than his.

I've heard the guide who was losing all the fish tell the same story... wink

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We've caught a lot of fish on the Llungen DC10's, with one rear treble. I can't think of a time we got bit and didn't get hooks into her, which is not to say a front hook wouldn't come in handy someday on some fish.

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Quote:
I did add another treble after that though. I used one larger than the rear treble, and it performed fine.

lungens are keel weighted. with that system they wouldn't be affected. unless a guy went nuts and put a 8/0 on it up front, lol. i fish with one, two on up to 4 hooks on my personal concoctions. i prefer a 5/0 4X over bigger hooks, they just sink in better for me, and are plenty strong. or a 6/0 up to 8/0 siwash. i get some flack about my love affair with semi-small treble hooks but my defense is always the same... they sink in better for me and i believe i lose less on the strike so i get a chance to fight them. my PB 51 1/2'' was on a 5/0 eagle claw. and she was a metro river fish (croix) with energy up the ying yang. ramble over, smile

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Somewhat of an off topic question, but what are the best hooks and how small is too small.

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There is some personal preference here. However, my favorite hook is made by Gamakatsu. My second favorite are by VMC. I almost always use round-bend trables. Size is dependent on lure size. I have used some small-ish hooks before as well. I use anything from 2/0 on some small lures to 5/0 & 6/0 on my largest lures. I have also used standard hooks as well as the 2X and 4X. My PB 48" muskie I caught on has size 2/0 trebles with just standard-strength hooks.

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Some baits are designe to run a specific size hook otherwise I think it's up to the angler to use what they prefer. Some like the lighter wire because they get better penitration and they are easier to cut if you have to.

You don't want to go to small on a big bait, but sometimes to big can effect the action of the lure and you don't want that either.

"Ace"

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Originally Posted By: guideman
I wouldn't expect the guy that makes them, to tell you there is a better way than his.

I've heard the guide who was losing all the fish tell the same story... wink

I guess that must make you an expert on everything? I think I'll trust my own experience on this one, and you can go by what some guy told you. wink

"Ace"

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I guess that must make you an expert on everything? I think I'll trust my own experience on this one, and you can go by what some guy told you. wink

Nah, i'm no expert, still feel like i'm pretty new at this. I'm just relying a story i know on the subject tryin to help someone.

FWIW, this "some guy" has caught 125+ muskies per year for the last couple years, I think it's worth considering what he has to say. JMHO. smile

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Ace, are you a full time guide? And you live on Vermillion? You mentioned in another post you're hoping to put 50 fish in your boat in a year for the first time ever, between you and your clients. The guys Redig is talking about have put nearly fifty 50 inchers in the boat in a season, let alone 50 fish, so I think their experience lends some credibility to what they "told" him, and that experience may be just as valuable to a reader as yours.

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Ace, are you a full time guide? And you live on Vermillion? You mentioned in another post you're hoping to put 50 fish in your boat in a year for the first time ever, between you and your clients. The guys Redig is talking about have put nearly fifty 50 inchers in the boat in a season, let alone 50 fish, so I think their experience lends some credibility to what they "told" him, and that experience may be just as valuable to a reader as yours.

Hey propster,

His post was a shot at me and that was pretty obvious to me.

I have caught a few in my life as well, I think my opinion is just as valid as "superguides"

are.

You make it sound like anybody can catch 50 muskies in a season, like it's nothing, how many did you catch last year?

"Ace"

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Ace, sorry you took it that way. It's not what I meant and not what I said. He never took a shot at you, he was merely supporting another opinion. And when you doubted that opinion and called him an expert, I was merely pointing out that the guys he was talking about had some pretty good experience as well, perhaps even more than you, and a lot more than me. No offense meant, and if I stated it in a way that made you take offense I apologize.

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I would love to able to say that I put 50 fish in my boat every year let alone 50 fish that are 50 plus inches. Its nice to be able to get advice from so many people that are able to catch a high number of quality fish. shoot, I'm just hoping to catch ten muskies this year and thats pretty far fetch.

I was thinking of putting some of that rubber tubing you see on DCG & topraiders, on my bucktail hooks. I thought it could help with hookups. I put them on some other baits last year that put fish in my boat.anythoughts?

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His post was a shot at me and that was pretty obvious to me.

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there is more than just a little merit to single hooks, siwash in particular, it' a time tested style hook in the biggest waters on earth. and they have scientific backing. physics no less. but theres one thing that can never be explained away and that's confidence in what your using. without "it" nothing works.

single hooks don't provide leverage for a fish to pry the hook out. a treble has a hook on either side of another hook and a fish can use those to gain leverage to dislodge the hook ( which is why theres big hooks ). also on the hookset a single hook goes in all alone everytime, a treble can be two or more and can affect penatration because it's harder to set two hooks than one. also it's easier to get them out. i use singles when ever it's feaseable and have confidence in them.

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