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merkman

MnDNR Speared Muskie Citations

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The other thread has been locked but here is the offical response from the MnDNR.

Quote:

From: Patty Holt <Patty.Holt@dnr.state.mn.us>

To: merkman

Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 9:46:21 AM

Subject: Spearing muskie citations

I found three citations for this violation in the last 10 years.

Patty Holt

Arrests & Confiscations Supervisor

Division of Enforcement

651-355-0162

www.patty.holt@dnr.state.mn.us

>>> merkman <merkman> 2/11/2009 2:16 PM >>>

May be you can help me by either answering this question or directing me to someone who can.

How many citations have been given out in MN by MNDNR officials for individuals spearing muskies in the last 10 years?

Thank You

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One was issued for a fish speared from Lake Miltona in 2007. Another was from the Ottertail, Mn area in 2005. Anyone know any info on the third citation?

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One was issued for a fish speared from Lake Miltona in 2007. Another was from the Ottertail, Mn area in 2005. Anyone know any info on the third citation?

Interesting, are these lakes on the banned list right now?

I can ask for more clarification on the 3 that were found if that helps?

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No, Spearing is allowed on Miltona and Otter tail. Ottertail has special regs. (min 30 inches posession limit 1) Lots of big fish taken there this winter.

This just gets more and more bizarre the more you dig.

So it seems, spearing was banned from "musky lakes" based on the fact that muskies may be inadvertently speared.

When you dig into the facts to get some non-biased measurable data, there were only 3 actual citations for spearing muskies in all of Minnesota over the last 10 years.

At least 2 of those 3 citations were not even on the lakes that are currently "protected".

I will be conservative here

15000+ spearing licenses sold per year (this number does not include kids or seniors who spear) X 10 years = 150,000 licenses issued in 10 years

Out of those 150,000 chances only 3 citations were given over the last 10 years.

WOW

That is .002 percent of the spearers over the last 10 years.

Or sport is being banned on “muskie lakes” for actions that have citations of less than 2 thousandths of a percent of the total licenses issued and we the ones being accused of being selfish for not sharing the lakes, since there are plenty of other places to spear.

WOW, That is all I can say.

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...

Our sport is being banned on “muskie lakes” for...

IMO spearing is banned from "muskie lakes," because a few too many folks speared too many muskies on "accident." Too many poachers back in the day said they "accidentally" speared a muskie, when they knowingly poached it. Thus we have the MYTH that it isn't possible to tell the difference between pike and muskies while spearing.

I have heard some second hand reports about the closing of Lake Minnetonka to spearing. It seams that someone speared a 50" muskie, and than the lake was closed to spearing. I can't really say if that is the whole story, or even the true story. It would be interesting to know how many spearing citations were issued on the "muskie lakes" the ten years before they were closed to spearing.

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No, Spearing is allowed on Miltona and Otter tail. Ottertail has special regs. (min 30 inches posession limit 1) Lots of big fish taken there this winter.

The article I read didn't state specifically Ottertail Lake, but the offending parties were all from the Ottertail area.

30 INCH MINIMUM! Wow, I've never heard of that one before.

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Otter Tail is a great lake for big pike. I'm not exactly certain why the 30-inch regulation is on the lake. There is a very healthy perch population in the lake so they have plenty of forage. The water is crystal clear and I spent a lot of time the winters of 07 and 08 on the lake sight fishing for perch in 8-10 FOW and I saw some some monster gators come through. I've also seen some dandy's in the summer when walleye fishing.

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At least 2 of those 3 citations were not even on the lakes that are currently "protected".

I guess after thinking of it to be fair it only makes sense, since there are very few darkhouses on those lakes.

The big question I have now is:

How many citations have been given out in MN by MNDNR officials for individuals harvesting illegal muskies via angling in the last 10 years?

I will go and dig around some more.

I will post results here when they come in.

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I have no problem with them banning us from muskie lakes. I think its a good thing so we dont have to worry about other worry about us out ther eon the lakes. I think we have alot of lakes in Minnesota that we can spear that we dont need these lakes to spear on!

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I have no problem with them banning us from muskie lakes....

Having spent most of this past winter enjoying spearing on a muskie lake, my opinion is drastically different than BassnSpears. Darn near feel insulted that another spear chucker doesn't want me to spear on a lake that I just showed that I could spear on WITHOUT spearing muskies. Sounds like an idea to "dumb-down" the system for the dumbest of people.

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Nothing wrong with those who don't want to take that chance, keeping off those lakes, but it should be a personal decision not something imposed on people.

You shouldn’t be forced to spear on muskie lakes, and you shouldn’t be forced not to spear on muskie lakes.

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I have no problem with them banning us from muskie lakes. I think its a good thing so we dont have to worry about other worry about us out ther eon the lakes. I think we have alot of lakes in Minnesota that we can spear that we dont need these lakes to spear on!

Should we quit driving because we might speed or run over someone? Don't use guns because you might shoot someone?

Come on.....

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Not voicing my opinion whether spearing is good or bad one way or the other, though I used to spear and support the right to do so legally. My question is more whether you think that the number of issued citations is an accurate barometer of how many muskies get speared? I mean, whether accidental or accidently on purpose, do you really think a spearer will turn tehmselves in that speared a muskie, knowing it is illegal?

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I did some research on this as well Merk and found that the only Muskie poaching violations were written to spearers, Ive looked for others but no luck, granted I did not call enforcement.

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My question is more whether you think that the number of issued citations is an accurate barometer of how many muskies get speared? I mean, whether accidental or accidently on purpose, do you really think a spearer will turn tehmselves in that speared a muskie, knowing it is illegal?

I think it is one way to show measurable non biased numbers.

I agree it does not show the "whole picture"

If we compare these numbers to the number of angling citations given it should give a very good representation. I say this, since I can agree that I don't think most anglers or spearers will turn themselves in for taking illegal Muskie, knowing it is illegal.

It is kind of like two people weighing them selves on a bathroom scale.

The actual weight of the scale may be off by 20 lbs, but if 2 people weigh themselves on that same scale, then come back 2 weeks later and weigh themselves on that same scale again, it is easy to see how much weight either person lost. You might not know their true actual weight but the actual weight lost is accurate.

I agree it is not the "best" way to measure it. I also don't think you could ever get a perfect measurement. So you have to go with the best you have.

I will believe actual citations or MN DNR formally reported incidents way before listening to stories about somebody’s uncles dogs cousin who supposedly did something wrong.

Maybe there is a better way of measuring it; if there is, I am interested in knowing what that may be.

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I did some research on this as well Merk and found that the only Muskie poaching violations were written to spearers, Ive looked for others but no luck, granted I did not call enforcement.

Post your results and cite your sources.

I am interested in seeing these.

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Not voicing my opinion whether spearing is good or bad one way or the other, though I used to spear and support the right to do so legally. My question is more whether you think that the number of issued citations is an accurate barometer of how many muskies get speared? I mean, whether accidental or accidently on purpose, do you really think a spearer will turn tehmselves in that speared a muskie, knowing it is illegal?

You have to look at it like any minor crime, there are more people that do it than ones that get caught. That goes for everything (speeding, stealing, etc) including people that poach muskies by spear or hook and line. Why do they always have to use spearing as an example?

I would bet (based on numbers and statistics) that there are many more illegal muskies taken by hook and line than by spear. There are many more anglers than spearers so it would stand to reason that a few percent of each is engaging in illegal activity. They always say, "There are always a few bad apples..." They are right but there are always a few bad apples in the anglers as well, so with that reasoning nobody should be allowed to fish musky waters because they are such a precious resource that we can't afford to waste. Of course this is a ridiculous notion, but I hate this argument.

A poacher obviously doesn't care about the laws, so making more isn't going to stop them.

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TIP NEWS

Poacher fined $6,000, jailed

Sept. 27, 2005

DNR Reports

A Detroit Lakes man has plead guilty to poaching charges in Becker County District Court.

Minnesota conservation officers ticketed xxxxxxx, 30, last October with three gross misdemeanors after a search warrant was served. xxxxx admitted to illegally spearing a muskie, taking deer over the limit and shooting a 500 pound black bear without the required game tag.

xxxxxpled guilty Sept. 6 to all three counts, paid $5,100 in restitution, was sentenced 365 days in jail (320 days stayed), was fined $3,000 plus court costs ($2,000 stayed). He was placed on two years probation with condition that he doesn't hunt or fish anywhere in the world for two years. He lost his hunting and fishing licenses for five years in Minnesota and the other 17 states that comprise the Wildlife Violator Compact for five years. Compact states include Minnesota, Arizona, California, Colorado, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Maryland, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, New Mexico, North Dakota, Oregon, Utah, Washington and Wyoming. xxxxxx will be immediately remanded to jail and serve the entire sentence if he violates any provisions of his probation.

xxxxxxs father, Walter Robert xxxxxx, 57, Frazee, was also charged in the incident and pled guilty to three misdemeanor counts of possessing an untagged gill net, possessing ducks taken illegally and possessing untagged waterfowl. He was fined $500.

“A CO has only one set of eyes,” said State Conservation Officer Chris Vinton of Detroit Lakes. “I cover 650 square miles. If the public out here is concerned about natural resources, every person is another set of eyes that can help catch those violating the law.”

Anyone witnessing a wildlife violation is encouraged to contact the nearest conservation officer or call the toll-free Turn In Poachers hotline at 1-800-652-9093.

DNR Site

Field Notes: TIP Line Rings

A 14-year-old boy shot his first buck, an eight-pointer, from a roadway at the urging of his father. A county worker speared a muskie in a ditch. From inside his residence, a rural homeowner shot a trophy deer as it fed from a pile of corn.

I had another one but I cant find it then we cant forget the recent one last month.

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