The mighty Palomar has fallen

[DTro]

Well, I have some interesting results to report on the test samples. What I found was that in no case did the knot fail, meaning that as long as you have a good knot, chances are that the line will break before the knot breaks. So having said that, I’ll continue to use the Palomar since it’s easy to tie and I haven’t had any issues yet.

Also what I found very interesting was that the line broke nowhere near advertised strength.

Here are the results.

50lb Power Pro with Palomar 28.7/22.6 (line broke in both samples)

50lb Power Pro with Fish N Fool 29.5/27.2 (line broke in both samples)

80lb Suffix with Palomar 45.6/47.5 (line broke in both samples)

80lb Suffix with Fish N Fool 53.2/44.5 (line broke in both samples)

Now on a side note regarding line strength.

50lb Power Pro broke at an average of 27lbs or 54% of advertised

80lb Suffix broke at an average of 47.7lbs or 60% of advertised

Based on those numbers I would expect 65lb to break around the 35lb mark.

Obviously the sample size should be much larger for better results, but there weren’t any “off the chart” numbers which leads me to believe that the numbers above are pretty accurate.

Not much to take away from this other than I know for sure that all my Flathead rods will be spooled up with at least 80lb test.

[AceintheHole]

[aanderud]

Great testing results, Darren. Somewhat surprising that they're so low.

Sounds like a great way to set your drag to be sure you aren't going to snap off would be to take a weight just under your breaking strength and make sure you can't lift it by your reel. As long as it takes drag, you should be good in any fight.

Remember that a 50 lb fish probably only weighs 10 lbs in the water. Of course when you add in fish "pulling" and current, there's more force there, but that's why we have drag set appropriately. Your rod also acts as a shock absorber, so when you're pulling in a big one, and he turns and makes a run, whavever force he's hitting with is being absorbed into the rod partially. Your line is taking just a fraction of the increase.

[DTro]

Now you might be thinking, well that doesn’t seem right, and maybe the way I did it isn’t exactly how they determine pull strength.

How I tested was using a digital constant force gauge. I tied the sample portion of line to a swivel on each end. Then clamped each swivel. The force gauge uses an electric screwdrive motor to pull down on the stationery force gauge, then records the highest strength reached.

The line was fresh from the spool and the integrity was never compromised in any way by the clamping.

Could you possibly reach the max strength of the line with one swift pull (kinetic energy)? Possibly, but do we really want to measure it that way? I want to know when that line will break at a constant force (fighting a fish).

This explains why some of these lines are so easy to break with the smallest of nicks or if rubbed against a sharp object under force.

[Ralph Wiggum]

Although I am a bit surprised at the breaking point of your lines, I'd be interested to see what type of force one can generate with a rod.

Dtro, if you're bored, would you mind taking a combo and tying it to the force gauge, then lean into the rod like you're fighting a fish. I'm curious as to how much pull one can exert.

[aanderud]

Remember also that a fighting fish is not a constant force...there's probably some constant offset from zero, and on top of that some undulation due to turns, head shakes, etc. I think most of those head shakes are absorbed in the rod and probably add very little additional strain on the line. The incremental force is being used to bend your rod and thus isn't adding stretch/strain to the line.

[Larry FlatCaster]

Dtro, if you're bored, would you mind taking a combo and tying it to the force gauge, then lean into the rod like you're fighting a fish. I'm curious as to how much pull one can exert.

Can you make sure to video record these testings. I want to see another rod explode and this seems like a good way to increase that possibility.

[Ralph Wiggum]

Originally Posted By: Ralph Wiggum

Dtro, if you're bored, would you mind taking a combo and tying it to the force gauge, then lean into the rod like you're fighting a fish. I'm curious as to how much pull one can exert.

Can you make sure to video record these testings. I want to see another rod explode and this seems like a good way to increase that possibility.

Well, you don't have to max out the rod. Just apply a force like a fish would.

[DTro]

I don’t think I’ll be bringing my rod into the lab at work

The results of the 80lb line tell me that you could tie it to a 40lb bag of salt and lift it up without breaking.

Now try that with one of your rods, and get back to me

These numbers also reveal that it is very important when using braid, to have your drag not set super tight and to go a little easy on the hookset, especially with a stiff rod (most of us knew that already).

[Ralph Wiggum]

The results of the 80lb line tell me that you could tie it to a 40lb bag of salt and lift it up without breaking.

That was my point. There's no way anyone could apply that kind of pressure on a fish

[DTro]

Actually I think it might be possible with a tight drag, stiff rod, and large fish. The kinetic force could be enough to snap it.

Mostly I have this rolling around in my head due to a high number of hook set break offs last year.

[Larry FlatCaster]

Actually I think it might be possible with a tight drag, stiff rod, and large fish. The kinetic force could be enough to snap it.

Mostly I have this rolling around in my head due to a high number of hook set break offs last year.

Ask Shamu about the Rod I blew up on a hook set a few years back.

It was like someone threw a M80 near my face. Smacked myself in the face with the butt, and almost fell over the back side of the boat.

I think the rod had some damage from a 44lb Flat boated the night before.... The rod was making some wierd noises.

I know what you were saying Ralph about not stressing to max capacity.... Thats why I was teasing DTRO to have a camera rolling just in case.

[Slowhand]

I would be interested to see what #'s you would get replicating the same test with heavier mono/co-polymer lines.

[MinnesnowtaWild]

Can a Trilene knot be used with heavy braided line? One of my hands is slightly crippled from an accident when I was younger so knot tying is difficult for me but I can manage a Trilene knot just fine.

[DARK30]

It always a good idea to have the camera handy. Larry, I still wish I could have filmed you walking off that high bank and crashing into the willows below in the dark

...and your rod never left your hand if I remember right

[Ed Carlson]

I will admit having more "Lazy fisherman failures" then "knot failures".

Not shedding a few yards frayed in use and re-tieing has cost more far more rigs and fish than any one particle knot style.

I use my top secret "Backwater Eddy Snott-Knott"..which looks a little like that dar "Fish Fool Knot"..but with a Little difference on the loop and wrap).. or I use the "Polomar Knot" for nearly everything else.

[DTro]

I use my top secret "Backwater Eddy Snott-Knott".

Ed, you outta submit that to "Knot Wars" next year.

"The Snott Knot" by Backwater Eddy has a nice ring to it

[Slowhand]

err...remind me never to get on aanderud's bad side.

[A.W.Wolfram]

This (fishing fool) knot is a VERY simple variation of a uni-knot.

So........ You double the line thru the eye and you can say you invented it.

I just invented a new knot. It looks allot like a Palomar knot but you tie the square knot front to back and then twist the loop end two times counter clock wise(only in the northern hemisphere, reverse if located south of the equator) before pulling it over the bait/hook. Then lubricate with shad slime and pull tight.

I call it the KOTC knot.

[propster]

Did some research and he states on Feb 8, 2009, that he "invented" it about 4 years ago. We've been using that knot since at least 2002, and Power Pro was advocating its use on their line since at least as far back as 2004.

[Ed Carlson]

I tie a lot of new and improved knot's while fishing, every time I buy a new bait casting reel I learn a few more new ones.... my most consistent and completely unique specialty knot is the "FUBAR KNOT"....it's my specialty.

[DARK30]

Ed, you better get that fubar knot patented! The "lazy fisherman failure" will indeed effect your knot strength...just like keeping fresh sharp hooks on the business end. Sometimes the end opposite the terminal end can't be sharpened tho

[uppdacreek]

I like over-hand knots, a little bow on top never hurt either

[PierBridge]

Can a Trilene knot be used with heavy braided line? One of my hands is slightly crippled from an accident when I was younger so knot tying is difficult for me but I can manage a Trilene knot just fine.

I wouldn't trust a trilene knot with Braid. I would suggest practicing the Palomar knot you'll have that down in no time its a pretty easy knot to tie. Also you could have some pre-tied rigs "hook n' swivel" to make things a bit easier for you at Night when you're out fishing and have to re-tie.

Good Luck!

[aanderud]

Gary, what is that in your avatar? That's not a catfish.

Looks huge, did it come from around here?