Guests - If You want access to member only forums on HSO. You will gain access only when you sign-in or Sign-Up on HotSpotOutdoors.

It's easy - LOOK UPPER right menu.

Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
PikeBayCommanche

Color Carrying?

16 posts in this topic

I just bred my 2 labs for the first time and am wondering about the color. If the mother is black will that be dominate over the fathers chocolate and if he has yellow 4 generations back and the mother carries carries the yellow gene.

Will the pups still be entirely black?

Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You could get all three colors. Google "Coat Color Inheritance in Labrador Retrievers" and you'll get the breakdown.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have seen that before.

The question that I can't find the answer is that if

My mother has a black father and yellow mother but the mother had all black pups

and if my father has yellow 4 generations back in his pedigree. Would he still carry that yellow gene or is it gone now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I looked up the punnett square situation on Labs, which is difficult because there are 3 inherited characteristics rather than just 2.

There are 8 different Black*Chocolate breeding combinations.

There is only a 25% chance in 2 of the 8 that will yield yellow pups.

In 5 of the 8 combinations there is a 50% chance that the puppies will be yellow carriers and 1 of the 8 has a 25% chance.

Basically there is no way to figure it out for sure unless you know exactly what B-C-Y genes (or you are smarter than me and have more time) the parents have and then those numbers are just averages. They yellow genes may be there or may not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

PBC,

If I am reading your post correctly, your female is directly from a BxY breeding. If this is the case she will definitley be a yellow carrier (she is B-y).

The male not having yellow in his pedigree for 4 generations puts the unknown variable into the equation. I would not hold out nor advertise pups as a possibility of being yellow. If you get a few bonus. It's not unheard of nor impossible for it to be passed down through the pedigree for 4 generations, just don't hedge a bet on it.

If he is all Black factored, the pups will all be black with approx. 50% being just black factored, and 50 % being B-y factored.

Good Luck!

Ken

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah that is what I was figured

My chocolate is an Elwood Blues line and has a yellow 4 generations back on the mothers side.

So yeah that is what i was thinking is that there will be a small chance of a yellow if any.

Anyways I am super excited to see what kinds of pups that they can produce being that they both have fabulous bloodlines and are a British/American line cross. I will hopefully be getting my male his SH this summer.

Thanks for the input.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Labs4,

With a choc father...and possibly yellow pups...wouldn't the pups be duddly??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not nessacarily but there is a higher probability. I never breed for yellow through a Chocolate for this reason. The parents can pass on the dominant black gene if one of the parents is black. Chocolate to yellow will produce Duddley and is not done by most breeders.

Good Luck!

Ken

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

... Chocolate to yellow will produce Duddley and is not done by most breeders.

Good Luck!

Ken

Is that pink nose and lips on a yellow?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yep...can have a light colored nose and yellow eyes as well on a yellow labrador. I guess I don't mind it too bad but definitely not quite as attractive as the dark pigments/eyes etc. That is just my opinion though. And as Labs4 mentioned-most breeders avoid this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have noticed on several breeder's websites and on stud contracts the stipulation that they will not do any choc. to yellow breedings. It totally removes all dominant gene form the dog... you are breeding a mutated gene (choc) to a resessive gene (yellow).

Ken

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have heard before that the Yellow is actually the mutation???

The E gene locus in Labs determines whether the dog will be black/brown (eumelanin) or red/yellow (phaeomelanin). This locus encodes the melanocyte stimulating hormone receptor (a.k.a. the melanocortin 1 receptor; Mc1r). Labs that are homozygous for the dominant E allele have a constitutively active, mutant form of Mc1r; that is, the receptor is always "turned-on", even in the absence of melanocyte stimulating hormone (MSH). As such, eumelanin is constantly produced and the dog appears black or chocolate. Labs that are homozygous for the recessive "e" allele also have a mutant form of Mc1r. This mutant, however, is a "loss of function" receptor that cannot produce eumelanin, even in the presence of MSH. Therefore, Labs that are homozygous for the "e" allele can only produce phaeomelanin and, therefore, will appear yellow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yellow is the recessive gene. All yellow to yellow breedings produce 100% yellow offspring.

Chocolate is a mutated form of black.

I guess the dominant balck pigment may be passed in a choc - yellow breeding, but it is commonly accepted that duddleyism is the proto-typical outcome and the reason most breeders will not breed chocs and yellows together. I will admit that I do not know the scientific formulas, only what is commonly adhered to and accepted.

Good Luck!

Ken

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have heard before that the Yellow is actually the mutation???

The E gene locus in Labs determines whether the dog will be black/brown (eumelanin) or red/yellow (phaeomelanin). This locus encodes the melanocyte stimulating hormone receptor (a.k.a. the melanocortin 1 receptor; Mc1r). Labs that are homozygous for the dominant E allele have a constitutively active, mutant form of Mc1r; that is, the receptor is always "turned-on", even in the absence of melanocyte stimulating hormone (MSH). As such, eumelanin is constantly produced and the dog appears black or chocolate. Labs that are homozygous for the recessive "e" allele also have a mutant form of Mc1r. This mutant, however, is a "loss of function" receptor that cannot produce eumelanin, even in the presence of MSH. Therefore, Labs that are homozygous for the "e" allele can only produce phaeomelanin and, therefore, will appear yellow.

You can say that again!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hahahaaa. Yep.

Anyone have any early tips to see if she is actually pregnant or do I have to wait till about 30 days then have an ultrasound?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Popular Now

  • Posts

    • Actually, you just chose not to.

    • I've had a Marcum camera for many years and have found it extremely educational.  When I take new anglers on the ice, they love watching the fish.  Never had the camera spook a fish.

       

      I used a Marcum battery-powered panner to rotate the camera, and that helps identify my lure.  However, you also have to be pretty confidant with the depth of your jig, so that it will show up on the camera.

       

      I've found the camera of limited value during the summer, because it's constantly moving up and down, and a little side to side.  Even if I can find my jig, it's not for long.  What I use the camera for during soft water season is to identify bottom structure and get a general idea what's down there.  

       

      During hard water season, I use it primarily to see bites before they happen.  Not only do I know exactly what's near or looking at my jig, but I can see when they're actually going after it.  I have pulled the hook away from fish that were obviously too small, and also been able to set the hook on a bite before I could feel it.

       

      I love my flasher, but I have out-fished buddies with my camera.

    • $750 this week only or it gets winterized

    • Yaggie takwes top honors this week beating our points leader by three points. Yaggie's team finished 1st, 6th, 7th, and 13th earning him 379 points for the week and his thrid weekly win of the year. 379 points is also yaggies top score of the year and the third highest score of all the teams for the year. Congrats on a great week Yaggie!

      yaggie   379
      Fishin-Novice   376
      BlackLundPro   334
      Huckfin   329
      gregg52   309
      88fan   304
      fishing star   297
      Rip_Some_Lip   297
      SwivelDigger   292
      musky999   269
      juneau4   263
      mnwildman   263
      Jar Jar   261
      jwhjr   259
      cat-man   235
      Airjer   234
      Moose   149

       

      Total Points

      1     Fishin-Novice   7,929
      2     musky999   7,921
      3     gregg52   7,910
      4     Rip_Some_Lip   7,748
      5     jwhjr   7,698
      6     yaggie   7,575
      7     mnwildman   7,569
      8     88fan   7,504
      9     Huckfin   7,447
      10     Jar Jar   7,357
      11     BlackLundPro   7,348
      12     fishing star   7,341
      13     Airjer   7,298
      14     SwivelDigger   7,267
      15     cat-man   7,231
      16     juneau4   7,188
      17     Moose   6,622
    • Got my Helix 5. Now just need to get my sled out of storage and figure out where to mount it.



  • Posts

    • Actually, you just chose not to.
    • I've had a Marcum camera for many years and have found it extremely educational.  When I take new anglers on the ice, they love watching the fish.  Never had the camera spook a fish.   I used a Marcum battery-powered panner to rotate the camera, and that helps identify my lure.  However, you also have to be pretty confidant with the depth of your jig, so that it will show up on the camera.   I've found the camera of limited value during the summer, because it's constantly moving up and down, and a little side to side.  Even if I can find my jig, it's not for long.  What I use the camera for during soft water season is to identify bottom structure and get a general idea what's down there.     During hard water season, I use it primarily to see bites before they happen.  Not only do I know exactly what's near or looking at my jig, but I can see when they're actually going after it.  I have pulled the hook away from fish that were obviously too small, and also been able to set the hook on a bite before I could feel it.   I love my flasher, but I have out-fished buddies with my camera.
    • $750 this week only or it gets winterized
    • Yaggie takwes top honors this week beating our points leader by three points. Yaggie's team finished 1st, 6th, 7th, and 13th earning him 379 points for the week and his thrid weekly win of the year. 379 points is also yaggies top score of the year and the third highest score of all the teams for the year. Congrats on a great week Yaggie! yaggie   379 Fishin-Novice   376 BlackLundPro   334 Huckfin   329 gregg52   309 88fan   304 fishing star   297 Rip_Some_Lip   297 SwivelDigger   292 musky999   269 juneau4   263 mnwildman   263 Jar Jar   261 jwhjr   259 cat-man   235 Airjer   234 Moose   149   Total Points 1     Fishin-Novice   7,929 2     musky999   7,921 3     gregg52   7,910 4     Rip_Some_Lip   7,748 5     jwhjr   7,698 6     yaggie   7,575 7     mnwildman   7,569 8     88fan   7,504 9     Huckfin   7,447 10     Jar Jar   7,357 11     BlackLundPro   7,348 12     fishing star   7,341 13     Airjer   7,298 14     SwivelDigger   7,267 15     cat-man   7,231 16     juneau4   7,188 17     Moose   6,622
    • Got my Helix 5. Now just need to get my sled out of storage and figure out where to mount it.
    • Now that's funny.  I chose not to answer a ignorant question that an elitist like yourself could care less the answer to.  The only reason you want an answer to that question is to spend the next week trying to find some ignorant reason he/she is a bad choice. #rentfree
    • But you couldn't articulate who your favorite Trump picks for justices were, or why.
    • Many of the resorts / cabins where I stay on weekend fishing outings do not have a fish cleaning house. I also do not like the smell of dead fish from the cleaning process in my home. My wheel house is a fishing shack only, non-sleeper, which I take off the ice each night. It has both A/C and propane heat so I usually plug it into an AC outlet at night.   I decided to build a retractable / drop-down fish cleaning table 17” x 48” up and out of the way while on the ice and a warm place to clean fish. I use clear news print between the my fish cleaning board and the table to eliminate the need to wash the table every time I use it. Functionally works well, still needs some finish touches, paint, stain, rust treatment. I can also see many uses for this table while on the Ice. Fish Cleaning Table.mp4
    • Big win for the team today. Not many folks thought they would go into Carolina and leave 3-0. If this offense can get their sh$t together this may be a fun year. Defense is the real deal.
  • Our Sponsors