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Wade Joseph

Auto Mfg Bailout is dead

76 posts in this topic

So what now? IMO Ford is doing ok. I think they will make it thru this. They have been restructuring for about 3 years now. However, GM and Chrysler may not. I think GM is in the worst shape. Funny, the UAW seemingly killed this deal with their unwillingness to cut salaries.

Im a realist, if I was making 35 bucks an hour, but was given the choice between 28 bucks and hour starting Jan 1, '09, or ZERO dollars an hour starting in April 1, '09, Call me silly, but Im gonna take the 28.

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The UAW needs to let the workers vote on this! I bet they would feel the same way Wade.

I can't tell you how angry I would be if I was an autoworker right now and knew the guys representing me were also digging a grave for me mad

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I don't think that this is what Free enterprise is all about. It is unfortunate it has to come to this where the government has to "bail out" private industry.

The problem is that there are several industries in the US that are so intertwined with politics that they dont count as free enterprise.

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the same government that is ripping the automakers let nissan,toyota,mercedes and others into the country with no union. And we ask how did this happen. the government made it happen

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Why doesn't the govt give the money to all of us with the agreement to buy a new vehicle with it.

It's a win win

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if u do the math the 700 billion $ bailout will look like childs play compared to the government backed pensions for gm alone. over a million workers and retirees guaranteed thousands. may be enough to sink the whole country

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The UAW needs to let the workers vote on this! I bet they would feel the same way Wade.

I can't tell you how angry I would be if I was an autoworker right now and knew the guys representing me were also digging a grave for me mad

No way, no how.

Wade is right on. They (autoworker) should be lucky to have the opportunity to have a job after this is over. If nothing happens they may not. They may have to suck it up and live on $30/hr, but at least they'll still be working. smirk Not many places where an uneducated person can make that much or even close. Taking a 5% reduction in pay probably isn't that bad of deal in the end.

I saw some discussion on this the other day and they were saying that there is nothing wrong with unions, but the UAW is out of control and has been for some time.

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The bailout/loan is not dead.

Only put on life support till Jan. when Pelosie, Ried and Dodd can fill it with pork and get it passed.

Don't kid yourselves, it will get passed under the UAW endorsed Obama admin.

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The union deserves what is coming to them if they choose to not negotiate. The workers really shouldnt be mad because thats how the union works. They think they have a say but I guess in this case they dont....

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I think the UAW would find the deal more palatable if the upper echelon would take a cut and dump their perks too.

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Let'm go into chapter 11, it's what they need. Besides GM is the one thats truly in trouble and needs to be reorganized. The other two have credit left to tide them over.

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Instead of bailing out the Little 3 with cash that they will surely squander, here is a plan. The industry says that they need to sell 16 million cars this year and are on pace to only sell 11 million. We, the USA, buy the remaining 5 million cars and distribute them free to the first 5 million taxpayers who are making less than 250K a year and who are actually PAYING taxes. No free ride for the people who don't pay taxes because they could not afford to pay for the insurance on the new car and B-Rock is going to be taking care of them anyway once he rolls into the Casa Blanco in January. People have more cars, they will buy more gas for those cars, pay insurance on those cars, everybody wins! I will put my order in for a Hunter Green Sebring Convertible with buckskin interior.

Windy

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To Windy City: I get the Sebring. You can have the used Pinto from Joe's Pretty Good Auto Sales.

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A few years ago our company experienced some slow sales. Rather than lay people off our management came to us with a proposal.

Effective immediately was a freeze on pay increases. Management and all salary positions would take a 10% pay cut and all hourly employees would take 7%. If and when things turned around and we once again became profitable, we would be repaid what we lost due to the cuts with interest.

The whole purpose of the plan was to protect jobs so we wouldn't lose quality employees. Hiring and training is very costly and this was one way to hopefully prevent that from happening.

It worked! Within eighteen months our sales began to climb again and we were able to get back to our normal salaries plus we received our backpay as promised. Had we baulked at the proposal there's a good chance some of us wouldn't be here today.

Bob

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Chapter 11 seems like a better option long term for these companies than a bailout. That would only extend their problems into the future. Let them reorganize their labor, shed the dead weight divisions/automobiles, and replace some of their management. Worked for a lot of the airline's: Delta, Continental (twice), etc.

I don't doubt there is some talent in Detroit, both from the design and manufacture side. But I don't see how this bailout is going to help bring that front and center. I guess we get a new government position out of the deal; the car czar! Quite a joke. We don't need the US government making decisions for the auto makers. We need new business leadership for the auto makers.

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It worked! Within eighteen months our sales began to climb again and we were able to get back to our normal salaries plus we received our backpay as promised. Had we baulked at the proposal there's a good chance some of us wouldn't be here today.

Bob

That makes too much sense Bob smile I agree 100%. If I am not mistaken, an even more drastic cut was "offered" to Sun Country employees, and the they took it, and just a week ago (or so) they started on their full pay again. It makes sense to me, and I am basically 1 bad month away from that situation myself. I would not want to work for less, none of us does... but it is better than zero pay as others have mentioned, and with the writing on the wall affords us to decide what the best thing is for our family, without getting toosed into the street 100%.

I can't just feel sorry for the autoworkers because they are autoworkers, I see layoffs and companies dying every week in my industry, so it is nothing novel just to the auto industy. I hate to see anybody lose a job, but sometimes we have to suck it up and make concessions (even ugly ones) for a awhile through hard times.

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Toyota's top executive, Hiroshi Okuda, earned $903,000 in 2006.

GM CEO Rick Wagoner earned $9.3 million in salary and bonus in 2006, (nearly double what he earned in 2005)

Chrysler's new CEO, Bob Nardelli, became a symbol of corporate excess when he left Home Depot with a $210 million severance package.

Ford's new CEO, Alan Mulally, got $27.8 million in salary and bonus in his first few months on the job, including an $18.5 million signing bonus.

Last year, Toyota's top 37 executives earned a combined $21.6 million in salary and bonuses, according to filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. U.K. firm Manifest Information Services.

So tell me who the greedy people are again????

All this money for no performance.

The new math?

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MUSKYMAN1011,

You're sounding more and more conservative everyday. wink

I’m more conservative when it comes to crime and Greed.

More liberal when it comes to Prostitution and marijuana

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More politicians being politicians and CEO's being CEO's. All want the lime light here and grandstand about this and that. Gotta get their time in the spotlight. Lets see where we are at in a few weeks

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I think more consolidation needs to be done within the auto industry. Ford/Mercury should be under one name, chrysler/dodge, and GM can do many things. GM already dropped oldsmobile, they can do more. All produce cars of the same make (like explorer/mountaineer) but put different names on them. Usually it comes down to asthetics in the vehicle. They should also quit buying foreign parts to make US cars. Think how many japanese engines are in US cars? This just shows that US automakers can't make or design fuel efficient engines. Sure if automakers consolidate some more jobs might be lost. But like I said earlier, if they make cars that are 100% US made that could possibly offset that. US needs to go back to producing our own (thus creating jobs)and quit relying on cheaper foreign products. It sounds like Ford is the only one who has been proactive and can weather thru the financial crisis better than the other two.

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Ford developed overseas markets better than the other two. As a result, they have vehicles that are designed to meet the demand of those overseas markets. More fuel efficient, etc...and Ford is in better position to bring those vehicles back here to meet changing demand.

GM's problem is the egregious amount of debt they have...much of it in corporate bonds.

There is nothing 'free market' about government bailouts. The market dictates that companies and business that make bad decisions will/should go out of business. Bailing out such companies is effectively rewarding bad behavior and absolving the companies of their responsiblity for bad decisions, and such bailouts are in violation of market forces.

That is what bankruptcy reorganization laws are for. If GM files for bankruptcy, their assets...the plants, equipment, designs, etc...don't go away. They are purchased by other management that thinks they can make better decisions.

Which is what needs to happen.

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