Private Acces Legal or Illegal

[Neiko]

I don't have a problem paying to get on a lake but what is the legality of it? Can they only charge for you to go across there land or can they charge either per person in the vehicle or say we have 3 portables in 1 vehicle. Can they legally charge you access fee times 3? I know they do a great job taken care of the roads and making it safe but are they gouging us if they do it that way. I hope no resort owner takes this the wrong way. I appreciate everything they do.

[ozzie]

it should be one vehicle one charge...and yes what they are tech. charging you for is to cross their property as when you get on the lake you have as much of a right to be there as anyone else......now of course it is up to the outfit to what and how they charge but I have never seen anything beyond one vehicle one charge........it is also in your best intrest not to tick off the outfit as if you pay to cross their land they should be the ones to help if you need it on the ice...i.e a pull to get out of a snowbank, a jump start if your engine goes dead, ect.

[s2h]

I have only seen them charge by vehicle also. And I am always happy to pay it because of the hard work they put into keeping the roads plowed and access open.

[Powerstroke]

They can charge whatever they like if you want to cross their land to get there. If they are the only outfit on a lake and no public access than you are at their mercy.

I do agree that being nice is in your favor as far as getting assistance and getting around on the lake, but I get a little upset when people start claiming "roads" on the ice and think they can charge for the roads. I realize that they put time and effort into making those roads, but they are on the lake and that makes them public.

I would be wary of leaving a perm shack near a road that you didn't pay to access because plow drivers have been known to plow in shacks that are near their roads. It is wrong, but I don't think there is any kind of law against it.

[Neiko]

I don't plan on getting in a [PoorWordUsage] match with them I just thought they could only charge you to cross the land not by how many portables out there. We will only be bringing 1 portable. Would a lot of people still pay to get on Red or Mille lacs if they charged $10 per head all of a sudden instead of per vehicle?

[Phred52]

Neiko, Technically, They can charge ANYTHING they want. I had a guy tell me that he was charging $90/head to get onto Swan Lake for duck hunting. It's what it's worth to you. How badly do you want to hunt/fish that body of water and what are you willing to spend? You ARE crossing his property and the state will not intervein, It's between you and him. I did end up hunting RIGHT in front of that guys place, not A THING he could do about it. I just had to work harder and longer, but we saved the $90/per. I went to a neighbor of his, talked nice, (a little shineola) and asked permission nicely, I still have access to that water. I just love it when I can wave and say "Hi" to the $90 guy, I bet that just eats his craw!!! BTW, If a county road comes close to the waters edge, there is also 'right-of-way'. Sometimes that can put you on the water legally. Phred52

[MuleShack]

If your on a small lake with no other access points, then your at their mercy.

However on the larger lakes like Red and Mille Lacs and others, the law of economics will take its course. The higher prices person will eventually have to lower the rates or risk losing business. Unless the other owners on the lake consequentially raise prices to match the first guy. Eventually everyone would buy season passes or find a different lake and then prices would come down again.

I dont think they should charge by the head, because they are providing a plowed road to drive on. So only charge by the vehichle...if prices warrant, then just raise that single price accordingly.

[Marmot]

Why would it be illegal? The owner of real property has the right to charge whatever is deemed appropriate in our capitalist society. I sure as [mod edit] don't want the gubmint legislating private ramp fees. Sheesh....

[Caleb S]

I can't even believe this was posted.

[Marmot]

I can't even believe this was posted.

+1

[Sandmannd]

I don't worry about it. Plowed roads are nice to have and the resort will look out for you. If you have an emergency and you went out through the resort, most will come and help you out.

[Scott Stein]

.I had a guy tell me that he was charging $90/head to get onto Swan Lake for duck hunting.Phred52

phred not to be nosey but who was doin this?

[Neiko]

I have no problem paying for access but it is when they want to charge per head that I think they are fleecing us. I know I don't have to pay it but what if you got to Red and found out this is how they were doing it? You would be [PoorWordUsage]. Sorry if I wasted someones time because they read this thread. You will never get the time back so move on. Thanks for people who responded to it. I will hopefully get to try out this lake and see if it is worth it.

[Random guy]

Well as a guy that plows roads think of this, after the average snowfall on Upper Red the plows will burn up to $800 in fuel alone in one afternoon thats just one company. Lets not forget wear and tear, insurance etc etc.

Another way to look at it is on Upper Red if the road operators did not plow the first 100 yards of Upper Red is often three feet deep or more with snow. No vehicles or wheeler strictly sleds. So now you need a sled and portable to drag three, five or even nine miles across the lake and back.

What if you have trouble? Say you break down, forget your lights on, get stuck or even drop tires in a crack or pressure ridge, No road operators no rescue teams such as myself that go out just about every other night at 2am for this kind of stuff.

Always amazes me; $40,000 truck, $15,000 wheel house, $5,000 in ice gear $200 boots, $100 in beer and $20 bucks in McDonalds wrappers but the road fee is outrageous.

[Will]

agreed!

[Sandmannd]

That's the point I was making Jonny. Thanks for pointing out all the costs. It costs the resort owners plenty of time and money to keep it up so we can enjoy the sport. Not only do I love the roads but the piece of mind that if I get stuck or in trouble they will come and help us out.

[SomethingFishy*]

Well Spoken. You really can't put a price on the service you recieve from some of these people when you need it most.

[WhiskeyPete]

Always amazes me; $40,000 truck, $15,000 wheel house, $5,000 in ice gear $200 boots, $100 in beer and $20 bucks in McDonalds wrappers but the road fee is outrageous.

Well said

[Chef]

This belongs in the Discussions/Clean-up Forum. If you don't like access fees and the priveledge of traveling on makrked and plowed roads, use the public access.

[Random guy]

I was thinking about this and just remembered I paid almost 80 bucks in parking for the ice show, places I went for dinner/drinks after the ice show etc etc. Now that really is the same deal. I am paying to utilize somebody’s’ space or property. Sure it has a parking ramp on it or a asphalt lot with a gate but it is simple and easy so I pay the 10 bucks to park my truck. I could drive around for forty-five minutes and look for a place to park but I would rather just pay the ten bucks and get on with life if I can afford to eat at a restaurant I can afford to park.

I guess I never questioned the legality of it just figure why look a gift horse in the mouth.

[MuskieJunkie]

Always amazes me; $40,000 truck, $15,000 wheel house, $5,000 in ice gear $200 boots, $100 in beer and $20 bucks in McDonalds wrappers but the road fee is outrageous.

Don't try to bring logic and reasoning into the discussion.

I believe people who want to be mad about the road fee justify it by thiking "they can't charge me to use the public lake." Yes that's true but they can charge you to drive across their land, which of course goes along with driving on the roads that are nicely plowed.

If you have an issue with it no one is forcing you to pay the money. You can buy your own land and plow truck and make your own road, or buy a snowmobile and go out of the public access.

[federline]

BTW, If a county road comes close to the waters edge, there is also 'right-of-way'. Sometimes that can put you on the water legally. Phred52

This is true, but needs some more info, in case anyone tries this: The surface of the water is public - the land leading up to the water is is the issue here. The public easement for any public road (township, county, state, federal) extends beyond the road edge. If the water body water surface crosses over the easement boundary, your body can cross 100% public land (and no private land) right up to the water surface edge. You can then legally access the body of water at the point where this occurs. You can't "jump" over exposed private land to get to the water - that is trespassing. While the water level is too low to overlap the easement boundary, you may not access the body of water at that location.

Pretty simple. Get as technical as you like about it, but the spirit of the law in Mn is simple. You can get easement information from the government entity that *maintains* the road (not "funds" the road - sometimes they are different).

Now - I *DO* know of at least one lake where the actual LAND UNDER THE LAKE is deeded private, and always has been legally recorded that way. This is an exception. That means that unlike the above scenario, where I can also wade in from the easement - in this one case, I cannot! Since I'd be on private property! Weird, huh?

[Phred52]

Scott, It was one of the landowners on 'Sunday Bay'. Gotta be 18 maybe 20 years ago now. Made an impression on me that has lasted. Phred52

[BobT]

Could always just go use the public ramp. Without getting into an ethics discussion:

Gaining access to a lake via private property is a private matter. The owner is and should be free to charge whatever he wishes. Those of us that wish to use the access must decide if we're willing to pay the price for the access and any other services that might be included with the fee. That's called free enterprise. We the buyer can only get hosed if we give it up.

While I understand the thought, I do have some issue with the idea that because someone plows a road on public land/water, they somehow own that road. Yes, they have some expense and they put in the time.

Where I have trouble with it is when they did it on their own accord and then get all bent out of shape because someone uses it without crossing the seller's private land to get on. Build a road on a public lake and it will be used, sorry. Just like the buyer must decide if the price is right, the seller too must decide if if the work is worth it.

It would be like me taking my snowblower to my neighbors, cleaning out his driveway, and then sending him a bill even though he didn't hire me to do it.

If I build a deer stand or blind on public land and another hunter comes along and uses it, who am I to expect him to contribute to my costs? Tough bounce. I can use a portable if it's such an issue.

If I buy 20,000 gallons of gasoline at $1.50 per gallon I should have the right to sell it for $10.00 per gallon if I can get it.

Bob

[Powerstroke]

I agree with BOB.

I won't ever knock the work that good resort operators like the Petrowskis put into their livelihood.

If you have the nicest roads, a nice access and maybe parking available for those with sled/wheeler trailers than people will pay the fee. You are providing a service.

The problem I have is that once a road is made on public waters, some resort owners feel an entitlement to that road (for good reason) for the reasons Johnny listed.

When I was on URL 2 yrs ago (before you could keep walleyes) I was issued a "road pass" by my resort and I had to pay per day even if I didn't leave the lake and I had to show the pass.

Roads on ice are public and resort owners shouldn't be mad or "protect" their roads if people use them and they didn't access those roads from the private access. It's the price of doing business. If they don't want outside travelers, they shouldn't plow such nice roads.