Shoreline Structures Survey: MN Boat Users Input Needed

[sparcebag]

If I'm not mistaken the state health dept.has the say with wells.If they were to be taxed they'd have to set the path.

Sewer is a bad thing for me their (County who built a treatment facility to handle 30,000 homes)cant afford it and now wants to run pipes to area lakes! Willmar has its own and is building new up to date treatment of their own.

this treatment plant was for Green lake with multimillion dollar homes,now their complaning about costs! Ours will be metered but we have to buy meters grinders & pumps ourselves with all up keep costs. a cost of 20,000 to hook up then about 40-50 a month for ever!Just to run pipe past my 2nd lot will cost 8-9000 and it will be manditory!

As far as rules and regulatioons of docks & lakeshore I'm all for it! I've watched the deterioration of many lakes over the years,then I look at the mississippi where not much survived years back,oil spills every year a dead water in the 50s & 60s then rules were set and life started commin back! Now its world class eye waters,Paddlefish been reported.

I see our lakes heading to the same quality as the Miss.back then.I prefer to act now for future generations rather than bless them with our deficit bills and bad waters to boot!@

[BobT]

Lake Assn.s are bias as far as water conditions! Show me one Assn. that does more than preach no mow zones? None take action but thay say we should!

Lead by example our lake assn.keeps sending fliers to go to natural shorelines.But no Assn leaders or members Do? They all fertilize and mow to waters edge.

None are biologists,ichthyologists,Not even environmentalists!

But they know whats best for our waters??

How about the association around Lake Osakis. I'm not involved but probably should be, but I have heard that they along with other local organizations have been involved in efforts to rebuild spawning beds for one.

I also believe they are heavily involved with other watershed interests like the man-made drainage ditches that today feed into the lake.

Bob

[sparcebag]

I sure wish our Assn would get involved with runoff issues! Instead their concentrating on sewer,when septic accounts for 3-5% of pollutants entering the lake runoff 60-80%

Lot of this lake is 50 ft lots and with the required area for septic then buildable area at 20-25% ? theres not enough room for septic plus a 3-5 bedroom cabin.

At most meetings people want to build larger and the only way is with sewer.Bigger and more housing = more impervious surfaces and more runoff!

[sparcebag]

After trying to find something that stated installing a dock is a right and no certain wording as to a right,I asked the DNR!

Here's a reply with referances for 2008,Strange reply but non the less here it is

Re: Lake lot owner Dock question

InboxX

As a lake shore owner in Mn. Is installing a dock a right? Or is it a privlege? Is there a fee?

It's probably a privilege. If you don't follow the rules or laws you can be fined. There is no fee required for installing a dock. Here area a couple of websites with information on docks:

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/waters/watermgmt_section/pwpermits/docks.html

and

http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/publications/waters/shoreline_alterations_water_access.pdf .

Suellen Rau, Supervisor

Information Center

MN Department of Natural Resources

Bureau of Information & Education

500 Lafayette Rd

St. Paul, MN 55155-4040

651/296-6157

[email protected]

[Water Dog]

Is installing a dock a right? Or is it a privlege?

How will that information be of use to you? What would you say to either response?

Her response stated that you can be fined for not obeying the rules or laws. Has anyone EVER been fined? I bet not. That's because the DNR didn't consider it a problem or priority.

Technically, I suppose I have a RIGHT to own a dock, but it is a PRIVILEGE to put it in the water. If you own waterfront property, IT IS LEGAL to put a dock in the water, provided you follow certain guidelines. Just like driving a car on public roads. You have the right to own the car, but driving it is a privilege...and you must obey the laws.

Many laws are easy to create, because the line between good and bad is obvious. Other laws are more difficult to create, because of many variables. One flat speed limit of 70 MPH may work on the interstates, but that same speed limit wouldn't work on Lake Street or Minnetonka Blvd. The same applies to docks and lakes...One size dock does not fit all lakes. If you lower the speed limit on the interstates to 35 MPH, it would be impossible to enforce. The same applies to docks...If the rules are too strict, they can't be enforced.

[BobT]

Quote:

One flat speed limit of 70 MPH may work on the interstates, but that same speed limit wouldn't work on Lake Street or Minnetonka Blvd.

I'm guessing there are some that would disagree.

Quote:

If you lower the speed limit on the interstates to 35 MPH, it would be impossible to enforce.

It's apparently impossible to enforce the 70mph rule.

Bob

[metro fisherman]

Would it be possible to make a formula like "Every 5 feet of shoreline entitles the owner to 1 foot of dock." Then you could have special permits for shallow property where you need longer docks, once you are approved they could designate an appropriate dock length. I realize the massive number of applications that would have to be sent and property to be surveyed.

Also im a strong believer in restrictions on boaters. Fellow anglers know the trouble caused by Zebra Muscles and Milfoil but the average weekend boater that goes out for a ski or ride may not. Also they may not care since they dont live on it. I feel this is a more immediate threat to fisheries than docks.

[Water Dog]

Metro- I think your on the right track with a formula, but the LENGTH of the dock should simply be stated that it can be long enough to navigate their boat onto a boat lift.

The formula should be applied to the dock and equipment coverage parallel to shore. That includes dock, boat lifts, jet lifts, and possibly weed removal for swimming. The DNR call it the Aquatic Impact Area. In order to be fair to the many different sizes of property, I would propose the AIA to be something more like 70' or 70% of the property, whichever is less. Perhaps a property tax CREDIT for natural shoreline would be a more appealing idea. Reward instead of punishment.

The CURRENT draft of the proposed new rules limits the total amount of coverage to 5 square feet of impact per 100 feet of shoreline. That would limit a property owner with 100 feet of shoreline to (5)5'x10' dock sections. Period. No boats, no swim area, nothing.

Besides the fact that it is unenforceable and ridiculous, just think of the economical impact! All the boat dealers and dock dealers and dock service companies would be out of business. Property values would plummet, and property tax and sales tax revenues would, too. It goes to show you that the people making the rules are completely unqualified to do so. It's jaw-dropping!

[sparcebag]

Would the current rules be better? Have you read them or know them? No lifts mentioned just docks limited in size,length limited to depth.

They are! going to start enforcing the rules being current or revised.Would you like them to include lifts? If so revision will work better for all, but limits will be for all also.

Public input has a small percentage of power but they do listen! The schooled hired by the DNR have most input,They know more than the general public and its their recommendations that weigh heavy with the final decision

[Nick Kuhn]

Perhaps a property tax CREDIT for natural shoreline would be a more appealing idea. Reward instead of punishment.

I like this idea, and financially it could make sense as more natural shoreline should lower the cost of managing a lake as well.

[metro fisherman]

The CURRENT draft of the proposed new rules limits the total amount of coverage to 5 square feet of impact per 100 feet of shoreline. That would limit a property owner with 100 feet of shoreline to (5)5'x10' dock sections. Period. No boats, no swim area, nothing.

My family has about 300 ft of shoreline so how much dock could we put in if each section is 6 ft long by 3 ft wide with the current proposition? Also what would the rules be for tying or mooring near the dock?

[Water Dog]

I GOOFED.

The proposal is for 5 square feet for every 1 foot of shoreline.

That means 10 sections of 5x10 dock for a 100 foot lot. Your 300' lot would give you 1500 square feet to play with, including boats. Your 3'x6' dock sections are only 18 square feet each. (how you manage on a 3' wide dock is beyond me!) A 20' pontoon is about 160 sf.

If you have a 100 foot lot and a 25' pontoon on a boat lift with a 30' canopy, that's all you get. No dock.

[metro fisherman]

Its 3 feet with some change but I wanted to keep it simple for the adding. I dont think Ill have any issues with space now, thanks. Whats the rule for boats tied up to a dock? Because as the water gets shallow the lift is useless in 2 ft. of water so I tie it up.