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cribbageboy

Baiting

18 posts in this topic

Just wondering if someone could help me understand the logics behind why baiting is illegal during the rifle season. I want to start off by saying that I have never baited (anytime of year) and have never even hunted over a food plot. Even if the DNR made it LEGAL to bait during the Minnesota firearms season, I would still chose not to because of by belief in the lack of sport that it would bring. What I don't understand is the rationale behind the law making baiting illegal. A hunter can legally hunt near a cornfield edge that is 20 yards away, however if that hunter cuts down 20 corn stalks, and puts them in a pile that is 30 yards away, it now becomes illegal under the baiting law. This is just my understanding of how the regulations are written, and am just wondering if I am interpretting it wrong, or if there is a reason why the law is in place.

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Fair chase can be interpreted from two perspectives. The traditional sense of not hunting animals in a way that is unfair to them-and the other sense of hunting animals in a way that is unfair to other hunters.

In my mind baiting is perfectly ethical for bears and other animals and deer in other states. So your initial objection makes perfect sense.

But when other hunters are taken into consideration baiting gives one hunter a distict advantage over another who does not have the time, land or money to use bait.Hans

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Baiting is illegal during all deer seasons, not just rifle season, but they changed the law to accommodate people who wanted to "feed" deer up to 10 days before the season.

The idea is that baiting changes the odds for the hunter. It congregates deer and changes patterns and having central feeding piles increases the chance of spreading diseases. An argument is that it changes the odds for the neighbors too, but I think that's silly if baiting is legal.

Some states allow baiting, others don't.

Whether a crop field is baiting is tough. The state could decide that hunting within a certain distance of unharvested crops could be illegal.

I personally don't think that crops and food plots are baiting. They are large areas with plants growing.

If you gather a 5gal bucket with corn, sugar beets, acorns or apples and drag them into the woods and spread them out in a perfect shooting lane....that sounds like baiting to me and I think it is illegal. I also think too many people use it rather than try to actually hunt because they don't want to try hard enough.

That is MY opinion.

In states where baiting is legal, I think its good to have restrictions on bait piles and their size. Otherwise it becomes a competition to have the biggest, best bait pile out there.

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Although (like I said earlier) I don't believe in baiting deer,I would have to argue two of your opinions.

The first, is your aruguement that it ruins the whole idea of fair chase. Although I agree with you 100% on that idea, something tells me the DNR cares a lot less about fair chase than it does manageing deer populations.

The other arguement I have is that the use of bait piles increases the chances of spreading diseases from animal to animal. I too agree with this, but why is it LEGAL to use baitpiles the other 300 and some odd days of the year. Aren't they just as likely to spread diseases in May, than they are in November.

I would like to point out the one reason why I feel baiting should be illegal. Centuries ago, man hunted whitetails with nothing but spears, and handcrafted bows made from trees. I feel that with advances in technology like high powered rifles, trail cameras, scents and cover scents, and camoflauge, we (man) have already given ourselve an unfair advantage over the deer. This is why I don't believe we need to give ourselves another advantage of baiting deer. The thing that doesn't make sense to me, is why in the world an orginization like the Minnesota DNR would ban baiting.

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Quote:
The other arguement I have is that the use of bait piles increases the chances of spreading diseases from animal to animal. I too agree with this, but why is it LEGAL to use baitpiles the other 300 and some odd days of the year. Aren't they just as likely to spread diseases in May, than they are in November.

Is there a study on this or some kind of researches? People have been doing it for decades and we have not heard much of diseases in deer except a few cases? I can see this happening but deer eat in the same fields together and I'm sure they swab their own stuff with other deer too though even when not feeding.

Baiting should be illegal and it is, but the woods are too big and we do not have enough enforces to get every bit bait pile there is. It's hard to do, but hope that people are reducing their acts of baiting deer during the deer season, by their stands and etc.

Quote:
I would like to point out the one reason why I feel baiting should be illegal. Centuries ago, man hunted whitetails with nothing but spears, and handcrafted bows made from trees. I feel that with advances in technology like high powered rifles, trail cameras, scents and cover scents, and camoflauge, we (man) have already given ourselve an unfair advantage over the deer. This is why I don't believe we need to give ourselves another advantage of baiting deer.

just like technology!!! things are going to get more extreme and faster and all kinds of sorts...its crazy, I think. shocked

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Hammer Handle if buck scent worked like corn and food piles it probably would be. My own experience with buck scent is that I have never had it work. I guarantee carrying corn,apples,pumpkins etc. deep into the swamp I hunt with no field for a mile would work if I wanted to be a cheater. Right on Powerstroke, fields provide for all animals almost 6 months or more out of the year, most baiters once their hunting season is done they are done going to Fleet Go to get a 50 pound bag of shell corn and I bet some animals think, well what happened to all the goodies out here ? I think why a crop field isn't baiting is because about 2/3 of our states hunters would have to call it quits and alfalfa, soybeans, picked corn, once deer start getting nocturnal because of pressure you have no guarantee that they'll come out to it before legal shooting light is gone. Without baiting it makes the deer travel farther to feed increasing all of our chances to tag one, if I'm a deer and have 100 pounds of corn to eat whenever I might just wait until midnight to go eat it because it's there and guaranteed to be there decreasing the distance I need to travel to eat it. It's the same somewhat in the waterfowl world, baiting or shooting them by feeding them destroys the word hunting.

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I have had a buck follow a buck scent trail right to my stand.

Since then, never use the stuff. What sport is that?

But, I am old fashioned and believe scopes are an unfair advantage too.

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I hear ya Hammer Handle. Without scopes in 2008 I think it would get ugly as far as how many wounded deer would be wasted and it could result in more hunters being shot. I have downed 24 minnesota bucks without anything more than a good ground scrape. No bait, no nothing although I tried buck scent, usually after I have taken a buck already to kind of experiment with it and none of the bucks really responded to it, saw many cross the trail I put it on and they didn't start trailing it or anything. When you say what sport is that are you saying we should all hunt them with a knife or a recurve bow ? The scent industry is all just about money and most things in the end come down to dollars and cents. This buck that followed your buck scent you probably would've gotten it regardless of the scent since it was on your property and apparently cruising for doeheads anyway during shooting light. Just like my grunt call, it has worked 2x for me since 1983, neither buck was shootable, there are lots of things on the market that will when the situation is right will work, if one outworked the other 9 times out of ten everybody would be buying it, best bet is put in long hours near thick dense cover, that's the best way to tag a giant. Baiting is way wrong, I can't imagine my dad saying to me, which corn pile do you want to sit by tonight ? Instead it's maybe sit that creek stand, wind will be in your favor and remember that 2 1/2 buck you let go down there last year, maybe he'll surface again.

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I have shot 8 deer in my life and not one of them have been baited. I am proud to say that I hunt with fair chase in mind and am a law abiding hunter. The thought of shooting a deer after I see it on the side of the road repulses me. Baiting also repulses me. I know of people who baited last year and shot deer over it and continue to do so this year. If they were in Wisconsin were baiting is legal I would have no problem with it. I myself will not hunt over bait either way. It takes away the fairness of another hunter down the line. If a person has 8 deer around his bait pile and a hunter 300 yards away in another group has seen nothing all season long, how fair and greedy is that?

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I guess I should have stated more clearly that my question was NOT about ethics. I would find it hard to believe that any hunter would think it is more or equally ethical to shoot a deer over bait rather than the natural, age-old approach.

My question was: Why did the Minnesota DNR make baiting illegal.

I would have to think that the DNR has set deer hunting in place for wildlife management purposes instead of for sporting and recreational purposes. Although I may be incorrect in my interpretation, I just can't seem to make sense of it.

My proposal is this. What if we got rid of the intensive management bonus tags, reduced it down to one or two, and allowed baiting in the intensive management areas. Every year roughly 500,000 deer hunters buy a license in Minnesota. With only about 200,000 deer harvested every year. If we eliminate the bonus tags, and allow baiting, I would have to imagine that more hunters would have a "succesful" hunt, and bring the ratio up from 500,000:200,000 to something more like 500,000:300,000.

Don't get me wrong, I think the DNR is a very great, and important organization that does FAR more research than I will ever do, but I sometimes find myself wondering why they do the things they do.

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I believe that Wisconsin and Michigan allow baiting with some restrictions. They have a bigger deer overpopulation problem than MN. WI even has alot of area that is earn a buck. I have read where the wildlife agencies in those states wish that baiting were not legal there. The problem is once baiting gets established and people grow used to it, it becomes very hard to eliminate it.

Yes, baiting would increase the chances of people who bait of killing a deer. It would decrease the success rate of people who don't bait because the deer would be on the land of the best baiters. It would become a contest of who has the best and most bait. Imagine what baiting would have cost a few months ago with expensive corn and gas. We all don't have the time or money to be baiting. An argument I would also make would be that the people that bait most intensly would be after the big bucks and not shooting enough does. You wouldn't want to wreck your baitpile by killing some does on it and possibly ruining your chance at the big buck that is on the trail cam. I also believe baiting would make our sport less favorable in the eyes of the general public.

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I think there are more people baiting than people think.I stumbled across some bait bowhunting this year and it's in a picked cornfield.40 yards from a stand in the wide open.I've seen no deer this year and it's got me wondering if everyone that hunts around here is baiting and completely changing the deer travel routes? The last 2 years there has been no deer around my hunting area. Makes a guy want to start baiting himself. but I won't stoop to that level!

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What do you guys think about banning recreational feeding during, say Oct-Nov? The reason I ask, is the last two years we have shot deer that were full of corn and there is not a corn field for over five miles from where we hunt. There is quite a few houses around that I believe are feeding them and it seems to be pulling deer from their regular feeding areas. On second thought they are well fed.

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A food plot and a bait pile are apples to oranges in my opinion for many of the reasons Powerstroke cites. Does the food plot give you an artificial advantage? Are you changing things up on the deer? Absolutely, but trying to ban food plots would be a disaster as who's to say why the 2 acres of corn are there, etc.?

I don't like baiting, I don't do it and I never would because it is illegal in Minnesota? Would I if they made it legal in Minnesota, maybe, who knows, we'll cross that road if it ever gets here. I hope not.

I do have a problem with hunters, however, who knock fellow hunters in, say Wisconsin, who bait legally and follow all the rules in their state. My favorite is when guys call hunters who bait legally lazy slobs and then go out on a deer drive where 20 hunters circle in on a field and blast everything in sight. That's real sporting and fair chase. My point is, some of these guys should think real hard about how they hunt legally before they attack another hunter using another legal hunting practice.

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In wi where we hunt we have food plots and can bait but find th ebait piles are harder to shoot a deer of of. you are allowed 2 gallons of bait per 40 acre parcel. plus other resrtictions like no gravity feed time realease etc. We have found 1 deer can eat 2 gallons of corn or most of it so that we see 1 deer or a few come to that spot and thats about it. there is not any left for thr preceeding deer to find a few crumbs or so. It ins't like a hugh pile that lasts for days. As for why MN says no it just has been that way for years. when Wi said no a few years ago when the cwd was found there was an up roar of mad people. it does help dropo population but the chance of spreading disease in CWD zone baiting and rec feeding are not allowed. ! thing baiting as abow huinter helps give a bit of time to make a good shot.

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1. If Baiting is illegal because it may spread disease then all recreational feeding should be illegal also.

2. There is no such thing as "fair chase" when it comes to deer hunting. If you want fair chase then you need to tell the chasee that he is being chased. Or give the deer guns so they can fire back. Now that would be "fair chase".

3. If baiting is illegal because it causes unnatural deer movement, Thus making it unfair for those who do not bait, then food plots should also be illegal. Deer food plots have no other purpose than to "bait" deer for hunting. They are not harvested and used for any other purpose. The only people who can use food plots are those with their own hunting land. Those who hunt public land are left out in the cold.

4. The whole idea of a state wide deer hunt is to keep the herd thin. As long as we shoot enough deer annually to accomplish this, then who cares how they are shot.

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AMEN to that!!!

That is exactly what I think. Right now I am attending college for wildlife management, and law enforcement. If all goes well, I will apply for a CO position in the next couple of years. This means that I do feel confident in our state's DNR. However, I think the reason why baiting is illegal, is because if it were legal, too many deer would be taken to constitute the bonus tag system. Which in the long run, would lead to less money flowing into the DNR.

This is the only reason why I see that baiting is illegal during all deer seasons.

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