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CodyDawg

Could blaze orange turn key states red or blue?

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Could blaze orange turn key states red or blue?

By BRIAN BAKST – 4 days ago

ST. PAUL, Minn. (AP) — Forget spring, summer, fall and winter. In Minnesota, the seasons go by fishing, boating, hunting and snowmobiling.

Outdoors passions run so strong that last year lawmakers considered moving the fishing opener to spare anglers the dilemma of having to choose between hitting the lake and marking Mother's Day. It explains why presidential hopefuls John McCain and Barack Obama are targeting hook-and-bullet voters — a bloc expected to turn out in especially high numbers because of a state ballot question on natural resource financing.

Beyond Minnesota, the campaigns are mobilizing blaze-orange brigades in battleground states including Pennsylvania, Ohio and Wisconsin. They're making their cases at game fairs, shooting ranges and hunting camps.

With a fresh poll showing a deadlocked race in Minnesota, McCain was bringing his Republican campaign back to the state Friday along with his new weapon: moose-hunting running mate Sarah Palin. McCain's selection of the Alaska governor has fired up some outdoors enthusiasts.

"She's probably the most pro-hunting and pro-gun candidate that we've ever had," said dentist Don McMillan, a member of Minnesota's Sportsmen for McCain. "She hunts. She fishes. She snowmobiles. She's an outdoors person. Outdoors people can relate to someone like that."

Both candidates touched on their recreational backgrounds in interviews with Field & Stream magazine published Wednesday. Obama said he spearfished as a child in Hawaii but hasn't gone hunting or fishing in Illinois. McCain said he fishes on his property in northern Arizona but doesn't own a gun.

In Minnesota, McCain and Palin were due to hold an airport rally in Anoka County and share the stage with Ron Schara, host of the popular weekly outdoors show, "Minnesota Bound."

Behind the scenes, the McCain campaign has built a presence at weekend gun shows, organized within snowmobile clubs and tailored phone banks to put pro-McCain sportsmen in touch with those who are undecided.

McCain is hoping to make inroads in northeastern Minnesota's St. Louis County, a place of towering pines and ample lakes where President Bush lost to Democrat John Kerry by 37,000 votes in 2004.

Earlier this week, Obama's campaign used the same region for its rollout of a sportsmen network, with a pledge to protect hunters' gun rights, expand and restore habitat for hunting and fishing, and enhance programs that teach youth about outdoors activities.

His campaign is working to repel a National Rifle Association push to portray Obama as an enemy of the Second Amendment and to get past the candidate's inartful statement during the primaries about the tendency of small-town Americans to "cling to guns or religion."

Radio ads that Obama is running in several key states feature former NFL player Ray Schoenke, who played for the Washington Redskins, telling listeners that "Barack Obama and John McCain will both make sure we can keep our guns."

In northern Minnesota, computer technician Michael Jarve said he'll go door-to-door if needed to get that message out, too.

"Tell me where Senator Obama says `I want stricter controls on who can hunt and when' or 'I want to ban shotguns and rifles,'" said Jarve, a member of Obama's Minnesota sportsmen chapter. "Where has he said that? He hasn't."

Jarve, 27, has been a hunter since accompanying his father on a partridge hunt when he was 3. He concedes that the gun vote has traditionally been a Republican stronghold, but thinks the economy and Iraq war will ultimately drive voters' decisions this year.

Nationally, McCain held a 36 percentage point lead over Obama among gun owners in an AP-Yahoo News poll conducted Sept. 5-15. Among those who don't own guns, Obama was up 45 percent to 41 percent, with a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.

Four in 10 gun owners polled said the Palin pick made them more likely to support the McCain ticket, a much higher rate than among those who don't have firearms.

One wildcard in Minnesota is a constitutional amendment that should draw more outdoors-minded voters to the polls. It would establish a huge pot of money dedicated for habitat restoration, water cleanup and heritage programs. It has a catch that's causing discomfort among top Republicans — the money would be generated by increasing the state sales tax.

Dan Hofrenning, a political scholar at St. Olaf College in Northfield, said there's no doubt that outdoors matters are serious business in the state. The big question, he said, is whether they'll trump other voter concerns.

"Minnesota is a state with 10,000 lakes and lots of forests and plenty of people who hunt and fish. Does it beat bread and butter issues like peace and prosperity? Probably not," he said. "But in a close election, you're looking for anything."

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Gun rights and hunting rights are two separate issues. I always see "The One" talk about shotguns and rifles but what type of shotguns and rifles? What about hand guns, concealed carry, the castle doctrine?

He was a board member of the Joyce foundation and has stated publicly several times that he is opposed to conceal and carry laws. He said that "what works in Chicago doesn't necessarily work in Cheyenne". Which town is safer?

Allowing the left to bundle the second amendment to hunting is a strategy that they have been successful using at times. The next time your hear a democrat doing that remind them that hunting is not mentioned anywhere in the second amendment. It is not about hunting. It is about your right to keep and bare arms being uninfringable. (Is that even a word?)

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Quote:
Allowing the left to bundle the second amendment to hunting is a strategy that they have been successful using at times. The next time your hear a democrat doing that remind them that hunting is not mentioned anywhere in the second amendment. It is not about hunting. It is about your right to keep and bare arms being uninfringable. (Is that even a word?)

As a former journalism major (OK, now perhaps you understand the root of all my problems!) I love made-up words. As long as it conveys what you meant & doesn't leave people wondering what you're saying, it's a word to me!

And please, while you're stating that Democrats "use" the issue of hunting & guns, remember that the GOP is far, far more rabid in "using" this issue. Perhaps you've heard that the liberals are coming to take your guns? I think I read that once, somewhere. smile

I have no fear that my .410 or 12 gauge are in any danger of falling into government hands, ever.

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I agree that single shot .410's and 12 gauges are safe but what about semi-auto shotguns, rifles, and handguns? Besides I don't think anyone believes that the government will "take your guns" what they would do is legislate mandatory insurance or taxes making them unaffordable to all but the elites. They may try to make the owner liable for anything that happens when his gun is stolen or try to impose any one of several restrictions designed to end gun ownership by the public.

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Just keep your head buried in the sand Johnny. You won't see them come and take away your rights that way! Ask the Australians or the europeans if guns can't be taken away. Once you've grasped reality, the hype will look eerily familiar!!!

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I don't believe there is any heads being buried in the sand. The way it works is once an Obamaniac starts feeling defeated they generally go to personal attacks and get the thread locked down. It's a way of keeping the focus off the issue. Maybe instead of locking complete threads, the powers that be could just delete posts with personal attacks. whistle

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ya johnny don't want your neighbor kid playing with 9 mill in the back yard or your local drug dealer with easy access to purchasing a gun or even the guy next to you at the local bar who is drunk off his [PoorWordUsage] pulling his gun out over a little thing. No this does not happen that often but it does acumulative effect

With out the democrats putting safe guards in place that's what we wold get. The conservatives sure wont. They are so worried about gun ownership they look past the fact we need safe guards to help protect us.

Get your head out of the clouds no one is going to take you guns.

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I'm sure that's what the Canadians and Austrailans thought just before the home invasions exploded in Austraila and the Canadians gave up their hand guns. both are fact

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From snopes "In the specific case offered here, context is the most important factor. The piece quoted above leads the reader to believe that much of the Australian citizenry owned handguns until their ownership was made illegal and all firearms owned by "law-abiding citizens" were collected by the government through a buy-back program in 1997. This is not so. Australian citizens do not (and never did) have a constitutional right to own firearms — even before the 1997 buyback program, handgun ownership in Australia was restricted to certain groups, such as those needing weapons for occupational reasons, members of approved sporting clubs, hunters, and collectors. Moreover, the 1997 buyback program did not take away all the guns owned by these groups; only some types of firearms (primarily semi-automatic and pump-action weapons) were banned. And even with the ban in effect, those who can demonstrate a legitimate need to possess prohibited categories of firearms can petition for exemptions from the law."

A guy I shared a place in college with took a semester off to study abroad in Australia. He participated in a Kangaroo drive on a ranch (he was a beef cattle science major) where he used a pistol. They sure as heck weren't rounded up and outlawed, as some would have you believe.

The home invasion and armed robbery statistics that float around chain emails are all bologna. That also can be uncovered at snopes.

Canada also doesn't have a constitutional right to bear arms. Canada's Constitutional Acts and the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms contains nothing about guns.

I know second amendment rights are a big issue, but let's stay on topic. I do think blaze orange (that is, hunters and other outdoorsmen) will have a large influence on this year's elections. I think that saying gun rights are the only thing Outdoorsmen care about is to pigeonhole that group of people. I know it’s a pet issue for many, including me, but I think too that public lands policy and environmental protection play into choosing a candidate on Outdoor issues as well as gun rights. Someone that participates in outdoor pursuits goes a long way with me too.

*****

Also, I got my Field and Stream and would recommend to anyone looking hard at the Presidential candidates to take a look at this issue. Interesting breakdowns and interviews with both major party candidates.

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The fact still remains that the citizens were disarmed wether they had a written rights or not. If you do the research the Austrailan papers did report home invasions that went through the roof. Is snoops asleep? and there are countless articals in American rifleman to document this as well.

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You won't see them come and take away your rights that way! Ask the Australians if guns can't be taken away. Once you've grasped reality, the hype will look eerily familiar!!!

Your a lawyer? I would think at a minimum you would have at least looked up the fact that Australians never had a constitutional right to own fire arms so no rights were ever taken away.

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there are countless articals in American rifleman to document this as well.

ROFLMAO, ya, American rifleman, now there's a legitimate source. laugh

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Yes, it is. I would take any thing this mag said or reported over the tripe thrown about by the NYT or the Washinton Post or the Star trib.

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Yes, it is. I would take any thing this mag said or reported over the tripe thrown about by the NYT or the Washinton Post or the Star trib.

YIKES! crazy

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Here are the facts:

Barack Obama on Gun Control

* Ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws. (Apr 2008)

* FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban. (Apr 2008)

* Respect 2nd Amendment, but local gun bans ok. (Feb 2008)

* Provide some common-sense enforcement on gun licensing. (Jan 2008)

* 2000: cosponsored bill to limit purchases to 1 gun per month. (Oct 2007)

* Concealed carry OK for retired police officers. (Aug 2007)

* Stop unscrupulous gun dealers dumping guns in cities. (Jul 2007)

* Keep guns out of inner cities--but also problem of morality. (Oct 2006)

* Bush erred in failing to renew assault weapons ban. (Oct 2004)

* Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions. (Jul 1998)

* Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005)

----------------------------------------------------------------

John McCain on Gun Control

* I know how to use guns; but I don't own one. (Nov 2007)

* Prosecute criminals, not citizens for gun ownership. (Sep 2007)

* Don't hold gun manufacturers liable for crimes. (Sep 2007)

* Opposes restrictions on assault weapons and ammunition types. (Sep 2007)

* Calls for GOP "tolerance" of closing gun show loopholes. (May 2002)

* Ban cheap guns; require safety locks; for gun show checks. (Aug 1999)

* Supports ban on certain assault weapons. (Aug 1999)

* Voted against Brady Bill & assault weapon ban. (Aug 1999)

* Guns are a problem, but so are violent web sites & videos. (Aug 1999)

* Punish criminals who abuse 2nd Amendment rights. (May 1999)

* Youth Violence Prevention Act restricts guns for kids. (May 1999)

* Repeal existing gun restrictions; penalize criminal use. (Jul 1998)

* Voted YES on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005)

* Voted YES on banning lawsuits against gun manufacturers for gun violence. (Mar 2004)

* Voted NO on background checks at gun shows. (May 1999)

* Voted YES on more penalties for gun & drug violations. (May 1999)

* Voted YES on loosening license & background checks at gun shows. (May 1999)

* Voted YES on maintaining current law: guns sold without trigger locks. (Jul 1998)

* Ban gun registration & trigger lock law in Washington DC. (Mar 2007)

* Allow firearms in National Parks. (Feb 2008)

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Originally Posted By: Big Dave2
Originally Posted By: Johnny_Da_Der

Does the gun talk ever get old?

Not on a hunting and fishing message board.

just because you can post that dems are gonna ban handguns or semiautos and you get 30 posts from the choir reaffirming this ridiculous belief doesn't make it any more of a reality. Don't believe the hype.

All I was saying is that this is an outdoors persons board. These issues are naturally going to be in the forefront.

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Originally Posted By: lawdog
You won't see them come and take away your rights that way! Ask the Australians if guns can't be taken away. Once you've grasped reality, the hype will look eerily familiar!!!

Your a lawyer? I would think at a minimum you would have at least looked up the fact that Australians never had a constitutional right to own fire arms so no rights were ever taken away.

Kidd, do you think it is unprecedented that a constitutional amendment would be repealed? Remember the 21st amendment?

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Kidd, do you think it is unprecedented that a constitutional amendment would be repealed? Remember the 21st amendment?

No, I think it's always possible to change the constitution (ok, I was going to take a shot at Bush here concerning the Patriot act, but I'm showing great restraint). My point was, we always hear about Australia and the gun grabbing by their government when it's an apples to oranges comparison simply because it was never in their constitution to begin with. I would hope when we use comparisons during our friendly banter that they would at least apply. smile

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Kidd, I agree with you on that point but the thing that you may want to take away from the conversation about Australia or these other countries is the fact that the average persons views are changing in regards to guns. If there is enough support in these countries to make these laws, you can bet that in the future there will be enough support here to at least make gun ownership a hassle not to mention what the animal activist groups are up to.

I am very concerned about the future of our sports for my 8 year old son.

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Here are the facts:

Barack Obama on Gun Control

* Ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws. (Apr 2008) This is a good thing, IMO

* FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban. (Apr 2008) BAD

* Respect 2nd Amendment, but local gun bans ok. (Feb 2008) Too vague, but doesn't sound positive.

* Provide some common-sense enforcement on gun licensing. (Jan 2008) GREAT!

* 2000: cosponsored bill to limit purchases to 1 gun per month. (Oct 2007) Who needs more then 1 gun a month....Unless your up to something... Good!

* Concealed carry OK for retired police officers. (Aug 2007) GREAT!

* Stop unscrupulous gun dealers dumping guns in cities. (Jul 2007) GREAT!

* Keep guns out of inner cities--but also problem of morality. (Oct 2006) Too vague, again. Doesn't tell me anything

* Bush erred in failing to renew assault weapons ban. (Oct 2004) Do you honestly need an assult weapon? But not very good!

* Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions. (Jul 1998) No good!

* Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005) Depends on the lawsuit

----------------------------------------------------------------

John McCain on Gun Control

* I know how to use guns; but I don't own one. (Nov 2007) So???

* Prosecute criminals, not citizens for gun ownership. (Sep 2007) Yes! This is what we do now!

* Don't hold gun manufacturers liable for crimes. (Sep 2007) Depends on the crime, but over all, YES!

* Opposes restrictions on assault weapons and ammunition types. (Sep 2007) Probably better then the other option, but again, who really needs an assult weapon?

* Calls for GOP "tolerance" of closing gun show loopholes. (May 2002) CLOSE ALL LOOPHOLES!!!!!

* Ban cheap guns; require safety locks; for gun show checks. (Aug 1999) I'm not rich....What defines a chep gun? Yes, require saftey locks always!

* Supports ban on certain assault weapons. (Aug 1999) SWEET! Compromise!

* Voted against Brady Bill & assault weapon ban. (Aug 1999) Better then supporting it, I guess...But again, who really needs an assult weapon?!

* Guns are a problem, but so are violent web sites & videos. (Aug 1999) Lack of proper parenting is the ONLY problem!

* Punish criminals who abuse 2nd Amendment rights. (May 1999) Let 'em hang!;)

* Youth Violence Prevention Act restricts guns for kids. (May 1999) Kids shouldn't have guns!!!!!!

* Repeal existing gun restrictions; penalize criminal use. (Jul 1998) Let's take a really good look at some of the restrictions before we just up and repeal every one o them

* Voted YES on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005) Every once in a while, they may be at fault... Would they then be void of holdng any kind of blame? There are a lot of things that can happen. Lets just stop sueing for the sake of sueing!

* Voted YES on banning lawsuits against gun manufacturers for gun violence. (Mar 2004) This is good, but again..... You never know! They shouldn't be completely void of responsibility

* Voted NO on background checks at gun shows. (May 1999) Absolutely the WORST thing I have read! Are you dumb?

* Voted YES on more penalties for gun & drug violations. (May 1999) Good!

* Voted YES on loosening license & background checks at gun shows. (May 1999) Again, are you dumb? BAD!!!

* Voted YES on maintaining current law: guns sold without trigger locks. (Jul 1998) WHAT? What's the big deal w/ trigger locks! Safety first right?

* Ban gun registration & trigger lock law in Washington DC. (Mar 2007) NO! Regester your guns! It's for the best!

* Allow firearms in National Parks. (Feb 2008) Depends on the park I think...

So those are my takes on the above. I'm not a supporter of Obama or McCain. But if those were my only 2 choices and I had to vote for one... It seems that the Dems are a little tighter w/ gun control, but at least they are not completely reckless like the Reps.

The biggest glaring point on the Dems is the ban on Semi-autos. But I honestly do think this is really ever going to happen. And if it does....Well it wont so I'm not going to sweat it!

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Do you honestly need an assult weapon?

but again, who really needs an assult weapon?

But again, who really needs an assult weapon?!

You and I both probably have tons of things that we don't really need, right? A truck or SUV, RV, cable TV, a boat, atv, bobble-head dolls, my wife's precious moment collectibles, the list goes on and on.

Anyone who believes that something should be banned because no one "really needs" it should make a list of all the things that they own, or would like to someday own and let me decide if you "really need" them or not.

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