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bigbluepirahna

223 vs. 22-250

13 posts in this topic

What has more knock down power... .223 or a 22-250.

What has more recoil/noise... .223 or a 22-250.

On a quick look it appeared .223 has heavier grain ammo more readily available in the stores, which caliber actually has higher grain ammo easily available.

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I would say 22-250 has more knock down power as far as recoil and noise I have no clue. I think they are both easy to get ammo. Will probably really be easy to get some this deer season with the new laws.

If you realy want to know a good answer look at all the populor ammo guys web sites. Happy Hunting!

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The 22-250 burns a lot more powder than the .223. The reason you will see more loads with heavy bullets for the .223 is the .223 is a service round used by competitors in match shoots. The heavier bullets do better at longer distances in the wind. The popularity of AR-15 type rifles has pushed the manufacturers to put out a wider variety of loads for the smaller .223.

One thing to keep in mind is the heavier bullets in the .223 require a faster twist to the rifling of the barrel. A lot of AR type rifles have 1 in 7 rates of twist for using bullets over 65 grains. The standard rate of twist for most bolt guns in .223 is usually closer to 1 in 12.

Since you asked which has more knock down power the simple answer is the 22-250 by a wide margin. It also makes more noise and probably kicks more. Neither round is much for recoil even from a light gun.

If you are wondering which would make a better deer rifle the 22-250 would have the most power and flatter trajectory. If you are thinking of using either round for deer you need to stay away from certain bullet types. These rounds use the same bullets most of which are designed to vaporize prarie dogs or harvest fur. The plastic tipped and hollow point explosive bullets WILL NOT PENETRATE RELIABLY ON A DEERS VITALS. A couple of other types of bullet available are the full metal jacket and match hollow point neither of which is suitable for larger game.

There are several bullets available for 22 centerfires that are intended for deer size game. Noslers partition is available in a 60 grain bullet and Barnes has a 53 grain XFB. There are probably others. Several ammo companies are now loading these types of bullets in both cartidges.

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I shoot a .22-250 a lot at the gun range. A lot of shooters have told me that it has a lot of bark to it compared to the .223 bolt actions they shoot. As for recoil it is not much, I shoot 20-30 at times and wouldn't even know it. 45 and 50 grain bullets tend to have a great deal of wind drift. Also like mentioned the .22-250 uses more powder, and the 45, and 50 grain bullets move at 3800-4000 fps unless you reload your own. Being a hot load at that rate of speed heats my barrel up fast when target shooting so a lot of time is used between shots so I don't burn the barrel out. As mentioned this cal. doesn't make a very good big game rifle due to the small grain bullet, not to say it wouldn't kill big game but it just doesn't have the penitration power.

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The gun would be used for deer mechanictim. I am looking at the Ruger 1-B single shot 223. I shoot a 30-06 myself, and have twin daughters coming up that will be asking to hunt with daddy. Normally I would've just got them a 243, but I was talking an ex-law enforcement guy who told me he used to shoot hundreds of deer to control city populations. He said they were instructed to neck shoot the deer with a 223. Never had a problem with the caliber being lethal for deer.

Want to get everyones thoughts on here, if the general consensus is that it's not enough gun, I'll probably go for a Ruger #1 in 243. -Thanks.

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.223

Velocity max = approx 3100 fps 1280 ft lbs @ muzzle with 60 gr bullet

2738 fps 999 ft lbs @ 100 yds

22-250

Velocity max = approx 3500 fps 1632 ft lbs @ muzzle with 60 gr bullet

3104 fps 1284 ft lbs @ 100 yds

I personally don't feel that a .22 cal is enough to effectively and consistently take deer sized game. The exception to that rule would be an individual who is well trained and suited to place the shot were it needs to be. Your law enforcement buddy is of that sort. The neck is a low percentage shot and I would dare say that most folks can't make that shot. The neck is essentially a spine shot which is approximately 2" across and that is a pretty small target.

I have a niece who started hunting with a .308 chambered in a NEF single shot and she had no problem handling the recoil. Even if the shot was less than perfect, the animal was down in a fairly short time.

If I was selling a gun to you for your girls it would be something no smaller then .243 and no bigger than .308. I would also lean more towards the .308. The .243 is basically a .308 on a diet.

.243 Win. is a .308 Win. that has been necked down to .243. A 100 gr .243 carries about 32 grains of powder and a .308 carries about 43 grains of powder with a 150 gr bullet.

Just my 2 cents. I hope your girls have fun and good luck this season.

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I really don't think the .22 centerfires are deer guns either, but to answer your question the 22-250 is a lot more shell than a .223. Matched with the right premium bullet and with proper shot placement it can be a relatively effective cartridge on whitetails but I'd still prefer a little bigger caliber.

Personally I'd go .243 or 25-06 for your girls with the .308 being another option to consider depending upon the type of shots they'll take.

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I agree with Law Dog completely. I'd throw in the 7mm 08 Remington as another great cartridge for kids and women.

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there are also wildcats/less used rounds that you can throw into the mix,that seem to have the balistics to hit that happy ballancing point where the light loads meet the heavy loads. off balistics and no personal shooting expierence, don't through out rounds like the 6.5 creedmore, or .223 Arnold, .257 roberts... hit up some reloading manuals and just look at balistics, Ruger No. 1's are chambered in nearly every caliber in reloading manuals, and if ya can't find one you want, the TC Encore is an alternative and thier custom shop keeps the oddball barrels in stock, just not mass marketed, or will make one just for you.

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I think love to hunt hit it right square on the nose with 243 being the min. and 308 max. 7mm08 and 260 are also great rounds. And stay away from that neck shot!!

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I think the very best deer rifle for youngsters and smaller people is the 6.5 swede. You can buy the swede as a surplus gun and customize it cheaply. It doesn't recoil as much as a .243 and I've seen it knock down big white tails, muleys and many elk. The only draw back is the 6.5 mauser is usually only found in right hand.

I have my FFL and have sold dozens of these nice rifles. I have one customized for myself and it shoots nickel size groups with almost any ammo.

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    • Minnesota DNR News
      For Immediate Release:
      July 21, 2017
      In This Issue

      Conserving Mille Lacs walleye population requires regulation changes

      Mille Lacs Lake Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for summer 2017

      Conserving Mille Lacs walleye population requires regulation changes

      Walleye fishing on Mille Lacs Lake will remain closed until Aug. 11 to protect the walleye fishery, and ensure its long-term health and sustainability into the future

      To extend the walleye fishing season through Labor Day, the state will allow for an additional 11,000 pounds of walleye harvest on Mille Lacs 

      New solutions are being sought to rebuild and sustain a healthy Mille Lacs walleye fishery

      New fisheries data collected by the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources show the total safe harvest allocation for walleyes on Mille Lacs Lake (44,800 pounds) has already been exceeded this season. To protect the fishery and ensure the long-term sustainability of Mille Lacs Lake’s walleye population, the DNR announced today that walleye fishing will remain closed until Friday, Aug. 11.

      In order to extend the walleye fishing season through Labor Day, the state will allow for an additional 11,000 pounds of walleye harvest. Catch-and-release walleye fishing will run from Friday, Aug. 11, through Monday, Sept. 4, for the Labor Day weekend. Walleye fishing will then be closed from Tuesday, Sept. 5, through Thursday, Nov. 30.

      As these regulation changes were announced, Minnesota DNR Commissioner Tom Landwehr reiterated the state’s commitment to rebuilding and sustaining a healthy walleye fishery in Mille Lacs Lake.

      “Improving the walleye population in Mille Lacs is a top priority for the DNR,” Landwehr said. “We deeply regret the hardships these new regulations will cause for anglers and business owners. But they are essential to protect and enhance the future of walleye fishing in the lake for future generations. We will continue doing everything we can to understand the challenges facing the walleye fishery, and take whatever actions we can to resolve this very difficult situation.”

      Landwehr and DNR fisheries chief Don Pereira noted that allowing for additional catch-and-release fishing in August is essential for area anglers, businesses, and Mille Lacs area communities. The decision to allow for this additional harvest was made with input from the Mille Lacs Fisheries Advisory Committee.

      “We want to allow as much walleye fishing on Mille Lacs as possible,” Pereira said. “So even though state anglers already have caught their quota of fish, the DNR will dip into the allowed conservation overage to reopen the season on Aug. 11.”

      Through the closure, anglers on Mille Lacs Lake may fish for all other species in the lake including bass, muskellunge and northern pike. When fishing for other species, only artificial baits and lures will be allowed in possession, except for anglers targeting northern pike or muskie, who may fish with sucker minnows longer than 8 inches.

      A prohibition on night fishing will remain in place from 10 p.m. to 6 a.m. through Nov. 30. However, anglers may fish for muskie and northern pike at night, but may only use artificial lures longer than 8 inches or sucker minnows longer than 8 inches. Bowfishing for rough fish also is allowed at night but possession of angling equipment is not allowed and only rough fish may be in possession.

      Understanding walleye fishing quotas on Mille Lacs this year, and why that quota was reached earlier than predicted
      The DNR and the Chippewa bands that cooperatively manage Mille Lacs Lake agreed this year to harvest quotas of 44,800 pounds for state anglers and 19,200 pounds for tribal fishing. They also agreed that up to 75,000 pounds of walleye could be harvested from the lake from Dec. 1, 2016 to Nov. 30, 2017.

      That agreement allows the state to use a built-in buffer – the 11,000 pounds difference between the 75,000 pounds conservation cap and the 64,000 pounds combined harvest quotas – in an attempt to allow catch-and-release walleye fishing through Labor Day, following the mid-summer closure. Bi-weekly creel surveys show that state anglers already have reached their quota.

      “The DNR is using its full allotment to maximize opportunities to fish for walleye on Mille Lacs without violating our agreement,” Pereira said. “The DNR, just like area businesses, would greatly prefer to not have fishing restrictions in place. But sustaining and stabilizing Mille Lacs’ walleye population is our primary obligation and public responsibility.”

      Continuing the walleye fishing closure will reduce the number of fish that die after being caught and released, a condition known as hooking mortality. The likelihood of fish suffering hooking mortality increases as water temperatures warm.

      High walleye catch rates on Mille Lacs have increased DNR fishing projections. A hot walleye bite attracted more anglers to the lake, resulting in angler effort that is about double what it was in 2016.

      “Cooler than normal temperatures kept hooking mortality rates low, but more anglers fished Mille Lacs, particularly catching walleye longer than 20 inches,” Pereira said. “That increased the poundage of fish caught and put us over our walleye quota.”

      According to the DNR, bigger fish are biting, in part, because there is a shortage of food for larger walleye. Last fall’s assessment showed that larger walleye were thinner than average.

      Mille Lacs’ hot bite also reflects the findings of studies done in many other fisheries that show catchability actually increases when fish population drops. In Mille Lacs, walleye congregate in preferred spots rather than disperse evenly throughout the lake. Fewer fish in the lake means there is more room in the preferred spots for fish to gather, creating a situation where a larger percentage of the population is in position to be caught rather than gathering in a less preferred but less fished area.

      More information about Mille Lacs Lake, the regulation adjustments and management of the fishery is available on the DNR page at www.mndnr.gov/millelacslake.

      New solutions are being sought to improve and sustain a healthy walleye fishery
      The DNR announced in June that a new external review team of scientists will take a fresh look at Mille Lacs Lake’s walleye fishery, using all of the best science available to gain a better understanding of the lake. This new review, led by walleye expert Dr. Chris Vandergoot of the U.S. Geological Survey, will provide additional recommendations to improve fisheries management of the lake, and contribute to a long-term solution to improving and sustaining a healthy walleye fishery for future generations. The group’s report is expected in time to help guide and inform fisheries management decisions for the 2018 season.

      DNR encourages Minnesotans to fish for other abundant species on Mille Lacs Lake
      As today’s walleye fishing regulation changes were announced, the DNR encouraged all Minnesotans to visit Mille Lacs Lake to fish the other abundant species that the lake has to offer. Mille Lacs Lake’s other opportunities for top-notch fishing will not be affected by the regulation adjustment.

      Bassmaster Magazine named Mille Lacs the nation’s best bass lake in June and will send 50 of the country’s best anglers to the lake In September for its Angler of the Year tournament. Northern pike abound in Mille Lacs, along with muskellunge. In early July, a woman from southern Minnesota caught and released in Mille Lacs what may have been Minnesota’s largest-ever muskellunge.

      To learn more about Mille Lacs Lake and its many great fishing opportunities, visit the DNR page. To plan visit to the Mille Lacs area, visit the Mille Lacs Area Tourism Council page.

      ###

      Mille Lacs Lake Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for summer 2017
      Q: What is happening with the walleye season this summer on Mille Lacs Lake?

      A: The closure that began July 8 and was set to end July 28 is being extended by two weeks. That means walleye fishing will reopen at 6:01 a.m. on Aug. 11 for catch-and-release only through Labor Day. A night fishing closure also will remain in place from 10 p.m. to 6 a.m. through Nov. 30.

      Q: How does this affect fishing for other species?

      A: Fishing regulations for other species such as smallmouth bass, muskie and northern pike remain the same. During the night closure, there is an exception for muskie and northern pike anglers using artificial lures and sucker minnows longer than 8 inches.

      Q: Why did the DNR extend the closure?

      A: While the DNR wants to allow as much walleye fishing on Mille Lacs as possible, the state is also required to abide by cooperative agreements made with eight American Indian Chippewa bands. The two weeks of additional closure allows the state to abide by a harvest quota set earlier this year with the bands.

      The DNR and the bands agreed to harvest quotas of 44,800 pounds for state anglers and 19,200 pounds for tribal fishing. They also agreed that up to 75,000 pounds of walleye could be sustainably harvested from the lake from Dec. 1, 2016 to Nov. 30, 2017 in order to conserve the population

      That agreement allows the state to use a built-in buffer – the 11,000 pounds difference between the conservation cap of 75,000 pounds and the combined harvest quota of 64,000 pounds – in an attempt to allow catch-and-release walleye fishing through Labor Day, following the mid-summer closure.

      The latest creel survey data shows that state anglers reached their quota of 44,800 pounds of walleye caught from Mille Lacs in early July. Even though state anglers already have caught their quota of fish, the DNR is dipping into the allowed conservation reserve in order to reopen the season on Aug. 11.

      Q: Why has the walleye population in Mille Lacs declined? What is the DNR doing in the long-term to try to conserve the population?

      A: The vast majority of walleye that hatch do not survive to their third autumn in the lake. Walleye numbers have declined to the point that it has become important to protect spawning-sized walleye, particularly the class of walleye that hatched in 2013. It is important to protect the large 2013 year class to replenish aging spawning stock.  Most males from the 2013 class are now mature, but females will not start to contribute in large numbers until next spring. The state is committed to conserving the population of walleyes born in 2013 to improve and rebuild a sustainable population for the future.

      Q: Why do we count hooking mortality during a closed walleye season?

      A: The amount that state anglers can kill (as spelled out in state-bands agreements) also must include fish that die as a result of hooking mortality, the fish that die after being caught and then released back into the water. During the closure, some anglers still catch walleye incidentally and some of those fish die after being released. Under the state-band agreements, those dead fish must be calculated and counted against the state’s allocation.

      Q: How did this cooperative management between the state and the bands of Mille Lacs Lake come to be?   

      A: Recall that in 1999, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld lower-court decisions that allowed the Mille Lacs band and seven other Chippewa bands to exercise off-reservation fishing and hunting rights. The lower federal court also set up guidelines, known as stipulations and protocols, for both sides to follow. These stipulations and protocols provide a framework for how the bands and the state must work cooperatively to manage shared natural resources, including Mille Lacs fish.  In their agreements, the DNR and the bands are required to annually establish the number of walleye that can safely be harvested from Mille Lacs while ensuring sufficient remaining walleye in the lake for a healthy fishery.

      Q: If the walleye population is in decline, why are anglers catching so many?

      A: Fish are biting for two reasons. First, there is a shortage of food for larger walleye. Last fall’s assessment showed that larger walleye were thinner than average. Second, studies in many fisheries show that catchability actually increases when fish population decline.

      In Mille Lacs, walleye congregate in preferred spots rather than disperse evenly throughout the lake. Fewer fish in the lake means there’s more room in the preferred spots for fish to gather, and anglers find these spots where they can catch a larger portion of fish. Finally, while the walleye population has decreased considerably (by half or more), the amount of fishing pressure has declined by a lot more. This means that there are more walleye per angler fishing Mille Lacs today.

      Q: How is the DNR using science and research to help the walleye population?

      A: Mille Lacs Lake is the most studied lake in Minnesota. It is also a complex and changing system. The agency conducts a large number of surveys on the lake annually. These surveys include assessing the abundance of young walleye; setting 52 nets to assess adult abundance; using fine-mesh nets each summer to determine abundance of food (prey fish) for walleye; and using interviews with anglers around the lake (called creel surveys) to estimate the number of fish anglers are catching. The DNR also periodically tags walleye and other species to provide actual population estimates. We are tagging bass this year in cooperation with angling groups, and will be tagging walleye in 2018 and 2019 when the 2013 year class will be reaching full maturity.

      Q: What is the purpose of the external review the DNR has initiated?

      A: The DNR has asked Dr. Chris Vandergoot to lead an independent review of the DNR’s scientific approaches to manage Mille Lacs Lake. Vandergoot is a key member of the international team that co-manages a very significant walleye fishery in Lake Erie. He works for the U.S. Geological Survey in the Sandusky Lake Erie Biological station in Ohio. His review report will be available to the public in early 2018 and will help inform fisheries management decisions for the 2018 season.

      Q: What does the future look like for Mille Lacs walleye?

      A: It is unlikely that Mille Lacs walleye production will return to the levels that state anglers enjoyed over 20 years ago.  The ecosystem of Mille Lacs is going through extreme change, starting with increased water clarity in the mid-1990s, to impacts today from aquatic invasive species such as spiny water flea and zebra mussels. Longer growing seasons are also helping some species such as smallmouth bass but may be hurting others. While walleye will still be abundant, the future fishery will be more diverse, offering angling opportunities for a greater variety of fish.

      ###
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