Guests - If You want access to member only forums on HSO. You will gain access only when you sign-in or Sign-Up on HotSpotOutdoors.

It's easy - LOOK UPPER right menu.

Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
croixflats

Is it the surge or something else.

53 posts in this topic

It has now come out that the surge is not the reason for the decline in violence in Iraq. It has been said the reason for the decline of violence is the change in tactics combating the enemy and not the amount of troops thrown at the enemy. Though I'm sure the powers at be and the McCain backers wont agree with this because of so much at stake if the actual reason behind the decline out.

Lets give our troops and the leaders of the troops credit for the job they are doing and not take away those accomplishments for the cause of political ownership.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It has now come out that the surge is not the reason for the decline in violence in Iraq. It has been said the reason for the decline of violence is the change in tactics combating the enemy and not the amount of troops thrown at the enemy. Though I'm sure the powers at be and the McCain backers wont agree with this because of so much at stake if the actual reason behind the decline out.

Lets give our troops and the leaders of the troops credit for the job they are doing and not take away those accomplishments for the cause of political ownership.

Come out where. You got a link?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Although I don't support McCain. He legitimately was an outlier in calling for more troops and different tactics from the very beginning. That is why he got so much flack from the Republican party prior to the primaries. He wasn't towing the party line. Too bad he gave that up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It has now come out that the surge is not the reason for the decline in violence in Iraq. It has been said the reason for the decline of violence is the change in tactics combating the enemy and not the amount of troops thrown at the enemy. Though I'm sure the powers at be and the McCain backers wont agree with this because of so much at stake if the actual reason behind the decline out.

Lets give our troops and the leaders of the troops credit for the job they are doing and not take away those accomplishments for the cause of political ownership.

Hmm interesting, just yesterday Obama told Bill O'reily in a interview that the surge surpassed expectations... Before the surge there were alot of problems.. after the surge there were alot less problems.. conclusion.. the surge worked..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just saw it on the evening national news I'm sorry I am not able to direct you to any thing spacific. As you know any story covered by the news that is not popular does not get to much time spent on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll tell you what the difference is. Keeping the politicians out of it and allowing the generals and troops to do their jobs unabated. That's the strategy. More troops + more Military savvy + less Washington intervention = A successful troop surge!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

conclusion.. the surge worked..

I would like to know what the success criteria was to proclaim the surge a success? I was under the impression that the primary objective of the surge was to put Iraqi's in charge of Iraq, in that case the surge was not a success. If the criterion was to slow down attacks against US forces, then it was a success.

Anyone have a link to the reason behind the surge?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Haven't you been paying attention? The latest and greatest news (which has even been reported by cnn,nbc,cbs,blah,blah) is that the Anbar province IS now under the control of the Iraqi's. Sorry for no direct links but search around and you'll find it. I'd say that's a success!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

for me, Since it is our troops over there risking their [PoorWordUsage], a success by me is judged by lower attacks on them. I am most concerned about keeping them safe.

Plus, as wall guy mentioned Iraq is in charge of more of Iraq, which has been a huge success.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Success? I think you guys need to go look the word up in the dictionary.

It's a "success" only in the sense that after four years of botched idiocy, killing thousands of innocent Americans & Iraqis, dismantling the army, creating a haven for jihadists, increasing the power of Iran, & squandering billions of American taxpayer dollars...wait, what was the question? Success?

Jeez. After dozens of unsuccessful strategies, a blind church mouse could have bumbled into one eventually. Thank the Lord that people are suffering & dying at a slower rate now. That's a success I'll raise a glass to.

Or were 2003 - 2007 "successes" in your book, too?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Success? I think you guys need to go look the word up in the dictionary.

It's a "success" only in the sense that after four years of botched idiocy, killing thousands of innocent Americans & Iraqis, dismantling the army, creating a haven for jihadists, increasing the power of Iran, & squandering billions of American taxpayer dollars...wait, what was the question? Success?

Jeez. After dozens of unsuccessful strategies, a blind church mouse could have bumbled into one eventually. Thank the Lord that people are suffering & dying at a slower rate now. That's a success I'll raise a glass to.

Or were 2003 - 2007 "successes" in your book, too?

Under your standards of warfare we should probably have given up on World war 2 as well ? You would probably be talking German or Japenses right now if that was the case.. Why shouldnt we give up in Afghanistan too? Should we just let any outside organization come in and bomb us and not do anything about it? There hasn't been a successful attack on our soil since we invaded those regions.. That alone is a success.. The fact that the surge stopped most of the violence in Iraq is an unquestionable success.. Think back to 2001 ... the towers just fell.. and you didnt want to do anything about that fact huh? Don't insult the troops who have done an honorable job in doing what they were sent to do.. Your liberal talking points don't make this country any safer. North Korea is caving into pressure we have put on them as well to not build Nukes.. Libya Caved in on not building Nukes... the war has been a success.. and future history books won't be able to deny it..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Success is the local clans having enough with AlQuda (SP.??) And siding with the new Govt.Ans us?

A war can never be won without locals cooperation,Has nothin to do with any SURGE!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My brother, a major in the army, just returned from Bagdahd, and said it was peaceful there. He is convinced, as were the guys he was with, that the surge worked. The Iraqi forces are gaining confidence, and are slowly taking over their own cities.

How many of you have been over there to see what is really happening? Do you know anything about it besides what you hear on the news?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jaydebull, um, unless I recall incorrectly, WWII was a fight for the survival of much of the free world. Iraq was a war of choice that was screwed up every which way but loose for four long years - that was NOT the case in WWII.

Quote:
Think back to 2001 ... the towers just fell.. and you didnt want to do anything about that fact huh?

Hi, my name is max12 & I actually recall it was Afghanistan that housed the Taliban who were shielding bin Laden - do you remember that? Or have you bought into the Cheney talking point that Saddam was responsible? Or have you just forgotten altogether? THAT'S the war we should have been fighting all along, not mucking around in Bagdad & proving George Bush I (you know, the intelligent one) right about what a swamp it would become.

Quote:
Don't insult the troops who have done an honorable job in doing what they were sent to do.. Your liberal talking points don't make this country any safer.

If you want to believe that those who don't march in lock-step with Bush-Cheney are "insulting the troops" I don't think there's any point in any further discussion. Dissension is one of the most patriotic things one can do - if it weren't we'd all be speaking the King's English. That kind of attitude is just plain old stupid.

And if you really believe Iraq has made us safer...wow. Take a look around. See what low esteem the U.S is held in. Not only do we have more enemies than we had eight years ago, our friends aren't wild about us either. We desperately need a president who's going to rebuild our standing in the world & use it to fight the battles that will REALLY make us secure - Afghanistan & energy security top that list.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jaydebull, um, unless I recall incorrectly, WWII was a fight for the survival of much of the free world. Iraq was a war of choice that was screwed up every which way but loose for four long years - that was NOT the case in WWII.

Quote:
Think back to 2001 ... the towers just fell.. and you didnt want to do anything about that fact huh?

Hi, my name is max12 & I actually recall it was Afghanistan that housed the Taliban who were shielding bin Laden - do you remember that? Or have you bought into the Cheney talking point that Saddam was responsible? Or have you just forgotten altogether? THAT'S the war we should have been fighting all along, not mucking around in Bagdad & proving George Bush I (you know, the intelligent one) right about what a swamp it would become.

Quote:
Don't insult the troops who have done an honorable job in doing what they were sent to do.. Your liberal talking points don't make this country any safer.

If you want to believe that those who don't march in lock-step with Bush-Cheney are "insulting the troops" I don't think there's any point in any further discussion. Dissension is one of the most patriotic things one can do - if it weren't we'd all be speaking the King's English. That kind of attitude is just plain old stupid.

And if you really believe Iraq has made us safer...wow. Take a look around. See what low esteem the U.S is held in. Not only do we have more enemies than we had eight years ago, our friends aren't wild about us either. We desperately need a president who's going to rebuild our standing in the world & use it to fight the battles that will REALLY make us secure - Afghanistan & energy security top that list.

I do believe it is an insult to the troops, as well as I do believe that when we are in a war, we are in it to win it.. your defeatist attitude, and the attitude of the left in general can only lead to failure.. The whole I support the troops, but dont support what they are doing thing is a bunch of [PoorWordUsage].. There is no point in talking , you will not learn how to win.. you can't be taught that, as you have already given up..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Biggest insult to the troops was OUR Govt sending them there!!Then without armored vechiles,GPS,body armore,upto date equipment.That is inexcuseable!! NOT enough troops I could go on & on but ya get the Idea?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And if you really believe Iraq has made us safer...wow. Take a look around. See what low esteem the U.S is held in. Not only do we have more enemies than we had eight years ago, our friends aren't wild about us either. We desperately need a president who's going to rebuild our standing in the world & use it to fight the battles that will REALLY make us secure - Afghanistan & energy security top that list.

1) I could care less if they like us, as long as they fear us.

2) We just kicked AQ's backside in Iraq - which they called the FRONTLINES of their war against us.

3) There hasn't been another Terrorist attack on the US - you know why?

IF YOU KICK A TIGER IN THE BUTT, YOU HAD BETTER PAY ATTENTION TO IT'S TEETH.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quote:

1) I could care less if they like us, as long as they fear us.

2) We just kicked AQ's backside in Iraq - which they called the FRONTLINES of their war against us.

3) There hasn't been another Terrorist attack on the US - you know why?

IF YOU KICK A TIGER IN THE BUTT, YOU HAD BETTER PAY ATTENTION TO IT'S TEETH.

This is PRECISELY the attitude I DON'T want our next president to have; empty-headed bravado.

You take that tack with your kids too? Don't care if they like me, long as they fear me? Think about that nice, healthy attitude.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quote:
I do believe it is an insult to the troops, as well as I do believe that when we are in a war, we are in it to win it.. your defeatist attitude, and the attitude of the left in general can only lead to failure.. The whole I support the troops, but dont support what they are doing thing is a bunch of [PoorWordUsage].. There is no point in talking , you will not learn how to win.. you can't be taught that, as you have already given up..

Thanks for rebutting my points with more flag-waving. Brilliant.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quote:
I do believe it is an insult to the troops, as well as I do believe that when we are in a war, we are in it to win it.. your defeatist attitude, and the attitude of the left in general can only lead to failure.. The whole I support the troops, but dont support what they are doing thing is a bunch of [PoorWordUsage].. There is no point in talking , you will not learn how to win.. you can't be taught that, as you have already given up..

Thanks for rebutting my points with more flag-waving. Brilliant.

Words from your own canidate, http://news.yahoo.com/s/bloomberg/20080905/pl_bloomberg/am9xoyqf06li;_ylt=Agmi5aIRGjgYEzSrqABa6ydh24cA

Thanks for sharing your condescending wisdom. Your points aren't worth rebutting because you have none.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is PRECISELY the attitude I DON'T want our next president to have; empty-headed bravado.

You take that tack with your kids too? Don't care if they like me, long as they fear me? Think about that nice, healthy attitude.

I dont agree that it's empty headed, but I respect your opinion. However, this is precisely the attitude I DO want in our next president.

I can't speak for anyone else but I take a very similar attitude with my kids, and it's working so far. I'm not their friend, I'm their father. Big difference there and we have a very healthy family life.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with you all the way BG. My daughters young yet and we play around alot. But when she goofs up or doesn't listen, it's not time to be a friend, you have to be tough so they know what's right or wrong. We need the same in our Pres.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Iraq to parenting...interesting.

Max, I'm with you 100%

We hit the wrong target, with the wrong approach and are weaker for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So the Messiah believes "the surge" worked and now the disciples disagree.

drama.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0