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gunflint

Gustav Idea

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Here's my idea for the residents of New Orleans. When they get on the evacuation buses give each one a check for say $200,000 and tell them not to come back. This would save billions in aid. I've got an idea about what to do with the area after it's deserted but that's for another post.

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I have a hard time feeling any compassion for people who live at a elevation lower than the ocean. As Bill Engvall says: "here's your sign".

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I have a hard time feeling any compassion

Wow,that's a shocker! smirk I pray for the people of the gulf coast and hope this thing weakens before it hits land. If not,Duluth could use the influx of money and personality.

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I have a hard time feeling any compassion for people who live at a elevation lower than the ocean. As Bill Engvall says: "here's your sign".

Wow! Pretty harsh. What about the people in Iowa that lived near the Mississippi? or the people in the Red River Valley? Or the folks in Southern Mississippi?

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Well, how can anyone feel sorry when they keep rebuilding in known flood plains or in places that are below sea level? I didn't bring up the river situations and was referring to N.O.

Common sense goes a long ways.

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Things change. When the Red River Valley was settled (well, at least the riverside neighborhoods of Red River cities, which were the first river areas settled), there were no dikes to push the water higher and higher, and the water didn't get as high in the first place because back then every acre of field land hadn't been drained and drained and drained.

Since then, with all the drainage so farmers can get into the fields earlier in the spring to extend the growing season, a far larger amount of spring runoff hits the river than 125 years ago.

So in the Red River Valley's case we've largely caused the problem ourselves. Now that we know it's a problem, we should NOT spend money rebuilding in the floodplain. Had the Army Corps of Engineers had its way, there'd have been much less floodplain rebuilding in GF/EGF, but politics reared its head and partially muzzled the Corps recommendations. And we're talking about politics forced on the engineers by a population of only 50,000 to 60,000.

I don't have any first-hand experience with the New Orleans flood situation. Have our efforts made things better or worse when big water comes inland? Hurricanes have been hitting the Gulf Coast for millenia, and of course tribal societies could pick up and move inland pretty easily when signs pointed to a big hurricane. Nowadays, our culture doesn't tolerate that type of upheaval well. Are there more and bigger hurricanes now then there used to be? I don't know. Lots comes into play here.

Now, I'm often labeled a bleeding heart lib, but I'd definitely support a nationwide framework that labels land areas based on the risk of flooding and hurricane. People who want to live in high-risk areas are one their own when it comes to government natural-disaster relief, with government relief being fully available in so-called "safe" zones and less and less available as the risk factor goes up.

Hard-hearted in one way, because these flood-prone areas are the beautiful ones and we seem to want to live with beauty in our lives. But I don't believe it should be the government's role to rescue everyone who builds their lives in dangerous areas. I believe it IS the government's role to assess that risk and establish a system like what I've described.

Of course, as soon as such a move got started, there'd be tremendous pressures brought to bear to make an exception here and an exception there. The politics of a population of 50,000 to 60,000 that compromised the Corps recommendations in GF/EGF was nothing compared to the firestorm that would happen if the government pushed for a national sytem of risk.

Anyway, here's one so-labeled lib who isn't blindly whining about problems but has a solution.

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Not to mention we all end up paying for it in some way.

Great posts LIMTOUT and stfcatfish.

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Great posts. How about California with it's earthquakes and fires? Great West with frequent forest fires? Washington with mudslides? Only difference is $. I see no need to have a third world country (New Orleans) within our borders if it is going to be washed out on a repeated basis.

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Oil is up $1.67 today and at least eight refineries are closed or closing due to the hurricane. 41% of the U.S. refining capacity is located on the Gulf (28% of the gasoline production).

The sign-changing guy at the gas station is going to be busy.

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Did they get word that there is no help if they don't evacuate? I hope so. If they didn't learn last time to get the heck out, well, I don't even know what to say. Why would you go back there and rebuild? I don't understand. We can't spend the kind of money it cost last time on another hurricane and then another in a few years. It could go on and on.

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How about California with it's earthquakes and fires? Great West with frequent forest fires? Washington with mudslides?

Yep, they are logical extensions of the flood/hurricane proposal. Where to draw the line would of course be the problem, but problems are made for solving.

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If we can send our troops in to an area to remove a dictator from a high risk dictatorship area. Then we can send help to our brothers anywhere in this nation "high risk" or not. The money were sending into Iraq is huge compared to what we have sent to New Orleans.

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Well, let's tell everyone in Hugo to pack it up..... Why rebuild there...? Ya never know...... there might be another tornado next year....... whistle

Or heck......we might as well clear out of the whole southwestern part of the state....you never know......

You guy's are really something else!

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That's a little facetious don't you think? Hurricanes come up the Gulf every year and it's like playing Russian Roulette if it'll hit and at what magnitude. The area they cover is also expansive and damage is widespread when they hit land. Nonetheless, they call it hurricane season for a reason and it's all but inevitable that you'll get hit sooner or later.

Maybe I'm looking at this all wrong and the people down there have it figured out? You save all year for the insurance deductible and then every other year or so you get a new house, complements of all the rate payers! Quite the deal. Even better is when their house is built below sea level just inviting flooding. But hey, what do they care.....they'll have a new house again.

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Well, let's tell everyone in Hugo to pack it up..... Why rebuild there...? Ya never know...... there might be another tornado next year....... whistle

Or heck......we might as well clear out of the whole southwestern part of the state....you never know......

You guy's are really something else!

Typical of your preference for overstatement, Brulie. Took what a couple of us said, twisted it and pushed it to an extreme. You should be writing political TV ads, dude. smilesmilesmile

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Originally Posted By: BRULEDRIFTER
Well, let's tell everyone in Hugo to pack it up..... Why rebuild there...? Ya never know...... there might be another tornado next year....... whistle

Or heck......we might as well clear out of the whole southwestern part of the state....you never know......

You guy's are really something else!

Typical of your preference for overstatement, Brulie. Took what I said, twisted it and pushed it to an extreme.

Typical of your preference for over-reaction, Steve-o. Take what I say, misinterpret it, twist it and take it as a personal attack. confused Don't flatter yourself, I wasn't even referencing your post.

When was the last serious hurricane that hit the gulf prior to the Kat? How many have demolished Florida? How many have hit Florida in the last 5 years?

My point is you never know when a disaster is going to strike. If every time a disaster strikes we should pack it in??? I understand where you guys are coming from to a point.....It does seem to be a waste of $$$ repairing cities that continue to suffer catastrophe, but we're talking about peoples homes and livelihood.

I'm sure you'd all feel a lot different if roles were reversed!

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Originally Posted By: BRULEDRIFTER
Well, let's tell everyone in Hugo to pack it up..... Why rebuild there...? Ya never know...... there might be another tornado next year....... whistle

Or heck......we might as well clear out of the whole southwestern part of the state....you never know......

You guy's are really something else!

Typical of your preference for overstatement, Brulie. Took what a couple of us said, twisted it and pushed it to an extreme. You should be writing political TV ads, dude. smilesmilesmile

Nice edit......... smirk

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I don't have a real problem with where the people live. I buy my home insurance from companies that don't service the hurricane prone areas and so my rates tend to be a little lower. That's my choice. If the area becomes too subjected to catastrophe the insurance companies will pull out because it won't be financially sound to continue offering policies.

To elude the other comments as well...there's a reason the bread basket of our country is referred to as tornado alley too.

Here's what really gets me down. The news, especially the weather channel, has been focusing most of its attention on New Orleans and how it has been evacuated and such. Funny, the storm track doesn't have it hitting New Orlean but about 100 miles west of New Orleans and moving west/northwest. There was a brief mention at one point about how those that were in the direct path of the storm are refusing to evacuate.

Makes me wonder how many of them will be crying about how FEMA, their city government, state government, and the federal government failed them when the time comes. Once again, and this is the small advantage of hurricanes, they were warned nearly a week in advance of the storm actually hitting. Those that live in tornado alley don't get five minutes warning much less a week and yet, the lives lost from tornados is considerably lower per property hit. Figure that one out.

Bob

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Here's my idea for the residents of New Orleans. When they get on the evacuation buses give each one a check for say $200,000 and tell them not to come back. This would save billions in aid. I've got an idea about what to do with the area after it's deserted but that's for another post.

Maybe next year.

Monday, September 01, 2008

FOX News' Marianne Silber and the Associated Press contributed to this report.

While New Orleans avoided a direct hit, the storm could be devastating where it did strike. For most of the past half century, the bayou communities that thrived in the Barataria basin have watched their land literally disappear. A combination of factors — oil drilling, hurricanes, river levees, damming of rivers — have destroyed marshes and swamps that once flourished in this river delta.

Entire towns in the basin of the Mississippi delta have disappeared because of land loss. The rates of loss are among the highest in the world; erosion has left it with virtually no natural buffer.

The nation was nervously watching to see how New Orleans would weather Gustav three years after Katrina flooded 80 percent of the city. Roughly 1,600 people were killed across the unprepared Gulf Coast. Federal, state and local officials took a never-again stance after the storm, and set to work planning and upgrading infrastructure in the below sea-level city.

For all their seeming similarities, Hurricanes Gustav and Katrina were different in one critical respect: Katrina smashed the Gulf Coast with an epic storm surge that topped 27 feet, a far higher wall of water than Gustav hauled ashore.

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