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Chode2235

Ron Paul and Obama - Agreement on the economy/oil?

71 posts in this topic

Saw this one in the WSJ and thought it eerily familiar to the point Ron Paul was trying to make in the Republican debates. Ron Paul put it in perspective best when he said the price of oil has not changed since 1992 when buying oil in gold rather than dollars.

Underreported story of the week, Obama wants a stronger dollar to help combat energy prices. His theory is that oil is a globally traded comodity, so if our money is worth more we can buy more with less.

Anyway, here is the WSJ: "Barack and the Buck" from the August 8th edition.

---------------------------------------------

The underreported economic news of the week is that Barack Obama favors a stronger dollar. Even better, he thinks a stronger greenback would help to reduce oil prices.

That at least is what the Democratic Presidential candidate told a town hall forum in Parma, Ohio, on Tuesday. "If we had a strengthening of the dollar, that would help" reduce fuel costs, he said, according to a Reuters dispatch ignored by most of the media.

This ought to be a bigger story. In linking the dollar to oil prices, Mr. Obama is pointedly at odds with the Bush Administration and Federal Reserve, both of which blame high commodity prices on supply and demand, despite falling demand due to slower global growth. Fed officials -- in particular, Vice Chairman Donald Kohn -- have expressly rejected any strong link between the dollar's collapse and the oil price surge since last August.

This conveniently absolves the Fed and Bush Treasury of responsibility for the consequences of what has been their destructive and all but explicit dollar devaluation strategy. If the Illinois Senator rejects greenback debasement, that's the best news to date about Obamanomics.

Reuters also quoted Mr. Obama as saying "The way to strengthen the dollar is for us to get our economy back in shape." On that point, he has it backward: Strengthening the dollar would help the economy -- by making the U.S. a destination for capital, and especially by reducing the inflation in food and energy prices that has pounded the American middle class. Those price hikes may yet tilt the economy into a recession it could otherwise avoid.

We don't know who is whispering in Mr. Obama's ear about the dollar, but he's on to a rich political vein. Americans know instinctively that something is wrong when the Canadian loonie is worth more than the greenback. Over to you, John McCain.

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Don't you know its not the value of the doller that cause high gas prices its the lack of drilling for oil. confusedlaugh

What was said above sure makes sense to me. But why do something that makes sense if the other way sounds easier

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The drawback to very strong dollar is that production here can't compete with overseas production. It just plain gets cheaper to do manufacturing overseas and that leads to high unemployment numbers in the manufacturing sector. And also doesn't help the service jobs that can be done overseas. Trade high buying power for pushing more jobs overseas.

It would be good for those that don't lose there jobs and would suck for those that do.

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Did he figure out all by himself that if you make the dollar stronger items will cost less? What a rocket scientist and I can't wait for the "Change" he will bring. I'll put this right up there with him saying to keep your tires inflated as his fuel solution.

I don't disagree with making the dollar stronger, but has he explained how he is planning on doing that?

Quote:
Reuters also quoted Mr. Obama as saying "The way to strengthen the dollar is for us to get our economy back in shape." On that point, he has it backward: Strengthening the dollar would help the economy -- by making the U.S. a destination for capital, and especially by reducing the inflation in food and energy prices that has pounded the American middle class. Those price hikes may yet tilt the economy into a recession it could otherwise avoid.

We don't know who is whispering in Mr. Obama's ear about the dollar, but he's on to a rich political vein. Americans know instinctively that something is wrong when the Canadian loonie is worth more than the greenback.

Again how is he planning on doing this? Are any of you planning on working for less money? Will anyone work for $5 an hour anymore? Nope, they'll just go on wellfare.

Quote:
Over to you, John McCain.

What's McCain supposed to come back with. "I agree, we need to make the dollar stronger. Enough said".

That's all BHO says, we need to fix this but I'm not gonna explain how. I know, I'll raise taxes that always makes the dollar stronger doesn't it?

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OK Sandmannd what is McCains response then More Bushyism and where has that gotten us. And it seems to me Obama has said repeatedly cut taxes on middle income and shift more of the burden to the wealthy. Ya I know the conservative veiw is to lessen the burden on the wealthy and that inturn trickels down. And I understand that point of veiw

Cut taxes on the middle income then they spend more witch intruns more product sold and more jobs to supply the demand.

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Again how is he planning on doing this?

Why don't you find out from the horses mouth. You're always crying from the far right about everything rather then taking the time to educate yourself and come back with pertinent counterpoints. Try thinking instead of becoming so defensive about anything that isn't coming from right field.

ps Corporate media may not be your best source for info

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him saying to keep your tires inflated as his fuel solution.

ahh, I believe McCain said that

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Originally Posted By: Sandmannd

Again how is he planning on doing this?

Why don't you find out from the horses mouth. You're always crying from the far right about everything rather then taking the time to educate yourself and come back with pertinent counterpoints. Try thinking instead of becoming so defensive about anything that isn't coming from right field.

ps Corporate media may not be your best source for info

good points WittleWaldo

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Originally Posted By: Sandmannd

Again how is he planning on doing this?

Why don't you find out from the horses mouth. You're always crying from the far right about everything rather then taking the time to educate yourself and come back with pertinent counterpoints. Try thinking instead of becoming so defensive about anything that isn't coming from right field.

ps Corporate media may not be your best source for info

I've not noticed that sandmannd is always taking the conservative side of the issues. I interject that not because I'm defending him, but to help keep the topic from degenerating into right-bashing and left-bashing, which is a fine way to avoid Wittle Waldo's main point.

The main point as I see it is that the info is out there for the taking, so why not look for it instead of throwing rhetorical questions out there as though they have no answer. When a presidential candidate says we need to do something, the first thing that is asked by thinking people (other than asking whether or not we NEED to do that thing), is how the candidate plans on accomplishing the thing.

No doubt that has been asked by some of those thinking people in the media (there are a few out there, though not the empty glam-heads types) and answered.

So, while WittleWaldo may want to brush up a little on his/her people skills in order to win friends and gain influence, the info is definitely out there for anyone to go look, and he's right on that you won't find much of it in the so-called corporate media! gringrin

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Originally Posted By: Sandmannd
him saying to keep your tires inflated as his fuel solution.

ahh, I believe McCain said that

I think how it went was Ohbama said it then was made fun of saying it then the otherside saw the wisdom behind it then agreed on it. Or was it vise versa confused

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Here's what happened on the tire deal . . . also as simple to find as an easy google search. winkwink

From CNN Political Producer Peter Hamby

PHILADELPHIA (CNN) – Mark Salter, a top adviser to John McCain, gleefully distributed tire pressure gauges to McCain’s traveling press corps on Monday morning, a sight gag meant to mock Barack Obama’s remark last week that “making sure your tires are properly inflated” could help conserve gasoline.

Before departing for Pennsylvania, Salter told the press on board McCain’s plane that campaign staffers had brought along copies of Obama’s energy plan for reporters to study during the trip. After takeoff, Salter re-emerged with his punch line, passing out the pressure gauges reading “Obama’s Energy Plan” to the journalists on the flight.

The Republican National Committee said McCain supporters in Michigan were planning to distribute the same gauges at Obama’s energy speech in Lansing today. McCain's campaign manager Rick Davis also e-mailed supporters, offering a tire pressure gauge in exchange for a donation of $25 or more.

UPDATE: The Obama campaign points out that McCain backers like Florida Gov. Charlie Crist and California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, as well as NASCAR, have promoted good tire maintenance as a way to manage fuel consumption.

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I am no expert on the oil industry, but doing some reading leads me to think there is no easy fix to this. I truly believe there are several things going on. Demand(which is finally dropping a little), supply which adequate but barely keeping up, lack of adding refineries, weak dollar, and speculators that figured out how to control the commodity and drive up the price up(there may be more too). Working on only one of those items just ain't gonna do it.

We are expecting a quick easy fix and I just don't believe it is there. The politicians are smart enough to figure what we want to hear and tell it to us. We are gullible enough to buy into it blush

On the saving gas thing, I read a report/article somewhere where and traffic engineer said we could save at least 20% of our fuel consumption if the govt timed traffic lights to make travel less stop and go. Yep 20%. Think about it for a minute, we all know that an car engine sucks up way more fuel accelerating than just maintaining speed.

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Originally Posted By: Sandmannd
him saying to keep your tires inflated as his fuel solution.

ahh, I believe McCain said that

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HaHaHa NASCAR recommends it for everyday drivers so did Arnold,

I guess people hear what they want,not whats said.

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Domestic crude would be Min. 10 yrs away 20 yrs to full production.Only to get enough oil to make 2 tenths of one percent of the daily US use!

NOW thats lots a oil UH???

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An enormous amount compared to what would be saved by inflating tires to proper pressures!!!!

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Accually IMO if all tiers were inflated properly the cosevation and demand for oil out way this bogus politcal need to drill for oil. The amount forcasted of oil recooped from of the coast of California amounts to 18 months of supply at presant usage rate(who's can say what usage rates will be in 10 to 15 years from now)And Anwar is predicted to be half as much recooped as off of California. So 10 years of properly inflated tires would outway the bennifits of drilling.

Ya this was a dumb and silly annallogy but when saying drilling is all that a dumb response is in order.

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Accually IMO if all tiers were inflated properly the cosevation and demand for oil out way this bogus politcal need to drill for oil.

Not even close.

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On the original topic, I think more and more people are realizing just how right Ron Paul is on most of these issues. Back in December or January (before the economic problems set in and became front page news), in one of the very first republican candidate debates, when asked about the economy, all the candidates said it was fine...no problems...

Except Paul. He sounded the warning that the government's actions had caused a weakening of the dollar, and that it couldn't last. And he was ridiculed for it. Now we know he was right.

He made a comment about how, with our deficits, we borrow from China and turn around and send foreign aid to Pakistan, Egypt, Lebanon, and myriad other places. About a week and a half later, Hillary made the same comment.

All of the other candidates know/knew that Ron Paul was right, and they had to make sure he didn't get heard...

Ron Paul would be a far better president than either of the two status quo candidates that are running.

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On the original topic, I think more and more people are realizing just how right Ron Paul is on most of these issues. Back in December or January (before the economic problems set in and became front page news), in one of the very first republican candidate debates, when asked about the economy, all the candidates said it was fine...no problems...

Except Paul. He sounded the warning that the government's actions had caused a weakening of the dollar, and that it couldn't last. And he was ridiculed for it. Now we know he was right.

He made a comment about how, with our deficits, we borrow from China and turn around and send foreign aid to Pakistan, Egypt, Lebanon, and myriad other places. About a week and a half later, Hillary made the same comment.

All of the other candidates know/knew that Ron Paul was right, and they had to make sure he didn't get heard...

Ron Paul would be a far better president than either of the two status quo candidates that are running.

Just because Paul spoke out doesn't mean he was the only one who got it. It means he was the only one who thought he could make political hay with it.

Politicians running for president don't care about you or me. They don't care if what they say is right or wrong. They care about getting elected, and that's about saying the right thing at the right time. He said the right thing and the wrong time, and see where that got him.

Bummer for him we let politicians get away with telling us what their public relations goons tell them we want to hear when the public relations goons are wrong.

Bummer for us, too.

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Yep. Paul was the only one who would tell the truth, and call it like he saw it...not allowing himself to be told what to say/think by the special interest groups propping him up (unlike the other candidates).

Maybe he thought the public was ready to hear the truth, instead of just telling them what they want to hear. Evidently, he was wrong. You're right catfish...bummer for us. And the future generations of this country.

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Originally Posted By: WittleWaldo
Originally Posted By: Sandmannd

Again how is he planning on doing this?

Why don't you find out from the horses mouth. You're always crying from the far right about everything rather then taking the time to educate yourself and come back with pertinent counterpoints. Try thinking instead of becoming so defensive about anything that isn't coming from right field.

ps Corporate media may not be your best source for info

I've not noticed that sandmannd is always taking the conservative side of the issues. I interject that not because I'm defending him, but to help keep the topic from degenerating into right-bashing and left-bashing, which is a fine way to avoid Wittle Waldo's main point.

The main point as I see it is that the info is out there for the taking, so why not look for it instead of throwing rhetorical questions out there as though they have no answer. When a presidential candidate says we need to do something, the first thing that is asked by thinking people (other than asking whether or not we NEED to do that thing), is how the candidate plans on accomplishing the thing.

No doubt that has been asked by some of those thinking people in the media (there are a few out there, though not the empty glam-heads types) and answered.

So, while WittleWaldo may want to brush up a little on his/her people skills in order to win friends and gain influence, the info is definitely out there for anyone to go look, and he's right on that you won't find much of it in the so-called corporate media! gringrin

I wasn't even going to respond to what was said by WittleWaldo or Reelem in until I saw your post stfcatfish. I know you and I haven't seen eye to eye on a lot of things so I thank you for showing me respect and sticking up for me. The reason I wasn't going to respond is because myself and anyone who disagrees with these go get the "Educate Yourself" carp everytime. I realize I only have an education from HS in North Dakota and have learned most of what I know from the hard knocks of life. So maybe I should do that, but if I do, it won't be on this kind of garbage. I read what I read. I go through the papers and if something sparks me, I'll look into it more. And you're right, I have agreed with a lot of folks on the left on several issues on here. So I don't "cry from the right" as I'm accused. I would ask those that post the tired "Educate Yourself" posts to please edumacate yerselves on a little tact.

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Quote:

..... but if I do, it won't be on this kind of garbage.....

maybe showing a bit of respect for others opinions would also help.

When the phrase " educate yourself" is used (atleast the way I use it ) it means educated yourself on the topic at hand. It has nothing to do with an over all education. If that is how you where taking it, I then apologise.

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By this kind of garbage, I mean politics in general. If I'm going to take away from family time to study up on something it's going to be to better my career or better myself as a parent. I'm not spending hours reading about the lies they ALL tell just to make better points in the eyes of some. I call like I see it in the newspapers, news websites, on TV or hear on the radio. Like I said, if something catches my interest I will research it a little more but other than that I don't have hours to spend on politics or politicians (i.e. Garbage).

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Originally Posted By: croixflats
Accually IMO if all tiers were inflated properly the cosevation and demand for oil out way this bogus politcal need to drill for oil.

Not even close.

Its at least a foul ball laugh

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