Guests - If You want access to member only forums on HSO. You will gain access only when you sign-in or Sign-Up on HotSpotOutdoors.

It's easy - LOOK UPPER right menu.

Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Barony

Mort. bailout

122 posts in this topic

WASHINGTON - Congress approved mortgage relief for 400,000 struggling homeowners Saturday as part of an election-year housing plan that also aims to calm jittery financial markets and bolster the sagging economy. President Bush said he would sign it promptly, despite reservations.

The measure, regarded as the most significant housing legislation in decades, lets homeowners who cannot afford their payments refinance into more affordable government-backed loans rather than losing their homes.

It offers a temporary financial lifeline to troubled mortgage companies Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — pillars of the home loan market whose losses have sparked investor fears — and tightens controls over the two government-sponsored businesses.

What began as a showdown between the White House and the Democratic-led Congress over how far the government should go in rescuing homeowners evolved into a bipartisan effort that could be the last such compromise before Bush leaves office in January.

In a rare Saturday session, the Senate voted 72-13 to send the bill to the president; the House passed it Wednesday.

So we make our house payment on time and live within our means, and we're being penalized because we do. This [PoorWordUsage] me off. This raises the national debt to over $10 trillion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If only the government would have been there to bail me out when I could have used it, not because I was fool-hardy and over-extended my credit to pay an over-inflated price for my home but because I lost my job due to record inflation and unemployment rates.

Now, I have to pay to bail out those that don't have enough sense to say no? I guess I try too hard to use reasonable common sense budgeting, not giving in to life's earthly pleasures, and living within my means.

Good grief!

Bob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is some of the text from an e-mail I got about this issue. Disclaimer...this is from a biased source (see avatar), but I have cut out most of the election-specific parts.

You may have heard or read media reports about actions yesterday in Congress to deal with the housing debt crisis and to bail out two private lenders known as Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae.

The bill passed the House of Representatives and will be taken up in the Senate and once through that pork factory, President Bush has said he will sign it.

The bill - and that's exactly what it is - is a bill you are going to be expected to pay! It's for an estimated $400,000,000. That is, of course, $400 Billion that we don't have, so more borrowing is ahead. Your share of this expense? About $1,300.

And that's on top of the more than $31,000 you already owe!

In 2001, the national debt crossed $6 Trillion. Today, it is closing in on $10 Trillion. Our debt is growing faster than at any time in our nation's history and there is no end in sight.

The average American doesn't understand what's going on. They have a sincere, but misguided, desire to help people less fortunate than themselves at this time of economic crisis. But this bailout only rewards people who made bad decisions and bails out those who profited from them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

to all the American consumers and businesses:

I messed up big time. I just paid off my house. Im sorry I didnt mean to but the loan company made it so easy to do. They sent me letters telling me how much I was to give them every month and it was always the same uhh. Then they gave me a calendar so I knew what day and what month it was so i knew if I needed to send more money. And by golly with all this information I was able to budget my money and make priorities to have money go to bills first then fun.

But you wnat to know the real secret.......

.....I bought a house I could afford and knew that if and when times got tough i could still afford it or sell it easily. So now I am completely debt free.

And I apologize for this but it was so easy i couldnt help it. So I am very sorry if I do not feel your pain when the stuff hits the fan I duck and you get splattered.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So we make our house payment on time and live within our means, and we're being penalized because we do. This [PoorWordUsage] me off.

exactly.gif

I've mentioned the redistribution of wealth campaign before, well, here is a prime example. All led by your local neighborhood liberal who feels it isn't "fair" these people couldn't make their payments. Tough. Another episode of rewarding people for being stupid and encouraging them to do it again in the future.

arrrrrghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!! 2605463227_c7dfd232d5_o.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Originally Posted By: Barony

So we make our house payment on time and live within our means, and we're being penalized because we do. This [PoorWordUsage] me off.

exactly.gif

I've mentioned the redistribution of wealth campaign before, well, here is a prime example. All led by your local neighborhood liberal who feels it isn't "fair" these people couldn't make their payments. Tough. Another episode of rewarding people for being stupid and encouraging them to do it again in the future.

arrrrrghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!! 2605463227_c7dfd232d5_o.gif

Add me to the list that think this is ridiculous. All we are doing is letting them think it is OK to be foolish with their money and how they spend it. "It's OK if I screw up someone will bail my a-- out" crazy

Cripes live within your means. Irks me to no end to think I have to pay cuz someone else can't put 2 + 2 together and come up with 4 mad

By the way LMITOUT your exploding guy is pretty darn cool laugh Pretty fitting to my feeling about this topic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't chime in often on this board, but this is one of those things that really irks me. I'm still waiting for my "prize" for being responsible with my finances and ensuring that I bought a house that I could afford. mad Oh wait, I don't expect anyone to pay my bills for me or help me out if I get myself in over my head.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

to all the American consumers and businesses:

I messed up big time. I just paid off my house. Im sorry I didnt mean to but the loan company made it so easy to do. They sent me letters telling me how much I was to give them every month and it was always the same uhh. Then they gave me a calendar so I knew what day and what month it was so i knew if I needed to send more money. And by golly with all this information I was able to budget my money and make priorities to have money go to bills first then fun.

But you wnat to know the real secret.......

.....I bought a house I could afford and knew that if and when times got tough i could still afford it or sell it easily. So now I am completely debt free.

And I apologize for this but it was so easy i couldnt help it. So I am very sorry if I do not feel your pain when the stuff hits the fan I duck and you get splattered.

I am amazed at how out of touch with their neighbors americans are becoming. The fact that people are chalking up the mortgage crisis to laziness and stupidity speaks volumes of how the morale fabric and educational system in america is rapidly depleting. Their are americans who whine and cry about our govt "bailing" out american citizens who are facing homelessness, yet they continue to support an administration and their potential predecessors who want to spend a trillion dollars and counting on a war that is doing nothing but hurting all of us. If you can not feel the effects of the war in Iraq, YOU ARE NOT PAYING ATTENTION. I will admit that as a "paid off" homeowner, who has no intentions of moving, I do not physically see the effects of the housing problem in this country. But I have family and freinds that have been effected by it and when people try to lump them in with a small minority of people who were lazy, or whatever, these ignorant, small minded people owe all of us americans an appology for trying to degrade the hardworking american citizen.

I know, I know..... LIBERAL,blah blah blah

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't chime in often on this board, but this is one of those things that really irks me. I'm still waiting for my "prize" for being responsible with my finances and ensuring that I bought a house that I could afford. mad Oh wait, I don't expect anyone to pay my bills for me or help me out if I get myself in over my head.

You honestly dont know what your "prize" for being financially responsible is??

You know what they say, "if you have to ask"........

There are a lot of people who are to blame for the mortgage crisis. from the bottom to the top,(mostly on the top). And no one wants to spend 400 billion dollars on "bailing" out peoples problems. But as civilized people we know that we can not just walk away from a problem. We have to at least try to fix it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But as civilized people we know that we can not just walk away from a problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't chime in often on this board, but this is one of those things that really irks me. I'm still waiting for my "prize" for being responsible with my finances and ensuring that I bought a house that I could afford. mad Oh wait, I don't expect anyone to pay my bills for me or help me out if I get myself in over my head.

Your prize for being responsible and living within your means is that you get the opportunity to cough your hard earned $$$ to bail out those that bought more home than they can afford.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quote:
I do not physically see the effects of the housing problem in this country.

What housing problem, there is no housing problem. There are some people who have a problem. These are people who desperately wanted a bigger house in more expensive neighborhood than they could afford. Add that to the fact many of them had/have poor credit and couldn't get a realistic fixed rate, and add in where poorly prepared to purchase a house.

If they were so desperate to buy a house, that they were willing sign anything without reading and thinking about the consequences then loosing their homes should/will teach them a valuable life lesson.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

we took oout a 30 year convention loan for 63K in 1988. It was a scary ordeal goin in debt that far. We seldom had any debts at all, saved a few bucks, held P/T jobs along with our professions and paid the place off in 11 years. I forget how much we saved in interest alone. Anyway, these credit cards "gotta have it now" yuppie wannbe's are gonna get bailed out??? [PoorWordUsage]....[PoorWordUsage]....[PoorWordUsage]. This program is gonna be such a quadmire that it will make the Katrina credit cards look like a drop in the bucket. Once the Gov't takes it over it's rife for corruption. Like the commercial says, "Live takes VISA" when in actuality, VISA takes live. Just how close are we to socialism or what chapter are we in in the "Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire"?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quote:
Yes, they put the cake out there for the people to eat, but the SMART ones knew their financial situation and only bought the house they could afford. The mortgage companies didn't hold a gun to their head and tell them to sign the papers. Place blame where blame is due, and that's with those who signed the papers.

Here is a classic example of them letting you dig your self a hole you can't get out of.

One of the younger guys I work with went out and bought a house about a year ago. He went through the normal procedures and did some looking at houses and then went and talked to a bank about getting a loan. He fills out all the paperwork and then they sit down and talk about what he get as far as a loan goes and is totally shocked at they willing to lend him. To make a long story short he wound up taking a loan for about half what they were willing to lend him. He said yeah I could have made the payments but it wouldn't have left me a whole lot to live on. Now that is the way it should be done.

Doesn't take rocket science to see that you can barely make the payment and not have anything in reserve if something goes wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to admit that this really [PoorWordUsage] me off. About 10 years ago i bought a house i could afford.. what is known as a starter home.. Over 10 years I have remodeled half of it, put on additions etc.. as i could afford it... When all along i could have had the 300 k lake cabin... It just isn't right.

I don't want people to lose their houses, but this will probably not be the end of this. What happens when other americans stop paying their loans cause they think they will get bailed out? a very bad precedent is being set.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quote:
I don't want people to lose their houses, but this will probably not be the end of this. What happens when other americans stop paying their loans cause they think they will get bailed out? a very bad precedent is being set.

Very good point. Setting a very bad precedence. This is gonna be a fiasco frown

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree, this is a very bad precedence. Usually we bail out those that already have money...like the savings and loan crisis a few years ago (when rich folks chased 20% interest rates with the knowledge that their principal was covered by FDIC. I think the middle class transfered over 30 billion to investors in Silverado ( a Bush family s and l) and other failed savings and loan entities. Let's see, then there's the investors in Boeing, Chrysler, Northwest, wealthy homeowners building their dream homes on primary dunes, hotel developers on beach fronts, and on and on.

So, I think this "bailout" while assisting some of the mortgage forclosures, will actually help out the scandalous loan companies that raked off millions during the early stages of the easy loan era and will now get compensation for the failed mortgages they wrote.

I know real people with jobs and families got hurt...and many (most?) should have known better. But you watch this story and see how many landlords with multiple urban properties are assisted, how many mortgage companies are supported, and how many of the loan packaging institutions get their share.

Love this deregulated environment...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Something seems to be amiss. Granted I'm not savvy on things like this. So, we dont help the home owners but we help the banks that gave these loans to people, knowingly they cant aford this or give them a variable intrest rate that will hurt them in the long run.

Let me get this straight. These are loans being made available to those to refinance at a better rate than given. And some of these loans were given with questionable practices.

So by refinancing through government insured bank it still gets paid back. Its not free money, It is a bank that is insured by the government up to $400 billion. Right ?

Its not like the war where we are not going to see that trillion dollars come back.

We bail out the banks , the airlines and I'm sure the auto indistry soon. But we cant help refinance the american people that were duped. But keep letting the big corperations duping us.

Luckily I'm not in that situation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about a few paragraphs on the subject from some one who really knows what he's talking about?

Thomas Sowell:

Bankrupt ‘exploiters’

By Thomas Sowell

In one of those front-page editorials disguised as "news" stories, the New York Times blames "the lucrative lending practices" of banks and other financial institutions for helping create the current financial crisis of millions of borrowers and of the financial system in general.

It must take either a willful determination to believe whatever they want to believe or a cynical desire to propagandize their readers for the New York Times to call "lucrative" the lending practices that have caused many lenders to lose millions of dollars, some to lose billions and some to go bankrupt themselves.

Blaming the lenders is the party line of Congressional Democrats as well. What we need is more government regulation of lenders, they say, to protect the innocent borrowers from "predatory" lending practices.

Before going further down that road, it may be useful to look back at what got us into this mess in the first place.

It was not that many years ago when there was moral outrage ringing throughout the media because lenders were reluctant to lend in certain neighborhoods and because banks did not approve mortgage loan applications from blacks as often as they approved mortgage loan applications from whites.

All this was an opening salvo in a campaign to get Congress to pass laws forcing lenders to lend to people they would not otherwise lend to and in places where they would not otherwise put their money.

The practice of not lending in some neighborhoods was demonized as "redlining" and the fact that minority applicants were approved for mortgages only 72 percent of the time, while whites were approved 89 percent, was called "overwhelming" evidence of discrimination by the Washington Post.

Some people are more easily overwhelmed than others, especially when they find statistics that seem to fit their preconceptions. But if we do what politicians and the media seldom bother to do— stop and think— an entirely different picture emerges.

In our own personal lives, common sense leads us to avoid some neighborhoods. If you want to call that "redlining," so be it. But places where it is dangerous to go are often also places where it is dangerous to send your money.

As for racial differences in mortgage loan application approval rates, that does not tell you much if you are comparing apples and oranges. Income, credit history and net worth are just some of the things that are very different from one group to another.

More important, in the same ways that blacks differ from whites, whites differ from Asian Americans. The fact that whites are turned down for conventional mortgage loans, and resort to subprime loans, more often than Asian Americans do is seldom reported in "news" stories about lending practices, even though such data are readily available.

Shocking as it may be to some, lenders are in the business of making money, and they don't much care whose money it is, so long as they get paid.

Politicians, on the other hand, are in the business of getting votes, and they don't much care whose votes it is— or what they have to say or do in order to get those votes.

It was government intervention in the financial markets, which is now supposed to save the situation, that created the problem in the first place.

Laws and regulations pressured lending institutions to lend to people that they were not lending to, given the economic realities. The Community Reinvestment Act forced them to lend in places where they did not want to send their money, and where neither they nor the politicians wanted to walk.

Now that this whole situation has blown up in everybody's face, the government intervention that brought on this disaster in is supposed to save the day.

Politics is largely the process of taking credit and putting the blame on others— regardless of what the facts may be. Politicians get away with this to the extent that we gullibly accept their words and look to them as political messiahs.

Thomas Sowell is an economist, and author as well as one of the great minds of our generation. By the way before anyone gets all pc, Thomas Sowell is black.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think anyone that blames the banks for this situation are still out of touch. I'm not trying to be critical. The bottom line still comes down to who signs their name on that bottom line.

It's not the banks responsibility to decide for me and protect me from me. I guess it's just another example of the "It's not my fault" mentality.

Bob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You just can't protect people from themselves and that is exactly what this bill it trying to accomplish.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Originally Posted By: jwhjr
I don't chime in often on this board, but this is one of those things that really irks me. I'm still waiting for my "prize" for being responsible with my finances and ensuring that I bought a house that I could afford. mad Oh wait, I don't expect anyone to pay my bills for me or help me out if I get myself in over my head.

You honestly dont know what your "prize" for being financially responsible is??

You know what they say, "if you have to ask"........

There are a lot of people who are to blame for the mortgage crisis. from the bottom to the top,(mostly on the top). And no one wants to spend 400 billion dollars on "bailing" out peoples problems. But as civilized people we know that we can not just walk away from a problem. We have to at least try to fix it.

The "prize" I referred to was tongue in cheek. I don't expect any reward for being fiscally responsible. My reward is that my house will be paid off in 10 yrs, and I'll have another 10-15 yrs before I plan on retiring to sock more $$ away.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Originally Posted By: jwhjr
I don't chime in often on this board, but this is one of those things that really irks me. I'm still waiting for my "prize" for being responsible with my finances and ensuring that I bought a house that I could afford. mad Oh wait, I don't expect anyone to pay my bills for me or help me out if I get myself in over my head.

Your prize for being responsible and living within your means is that you get the opportunity to cough your hard earned $$$ to bail out those that bought more home than they can afford.

Exactly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0



  • Posts

    • Most of them will be liberals..   Ha ha ha...     Fake news ?   The direct result of a video...   I landed in sniper fire...   The stupidity of the American voter...     Hilborg...   Created, marketed and sold thru fake news to gullible libs across the country.    
    • And you still think something is not screwed up in this country!? I fear a great many people are headed for some very painful disappointments in the next couple years.
    • A 56 percent majority of Trump voters say that if a national media outlet reported that Trump said something untrue, they would be more inclined to believe him than the news outlet.
           
    • Here is some more business fueled by Trump and Uncle Bill type LIVs.   Fake News: How a Partying Macedonian Teen Earns Thousands Publishing Lies by ALEXANDER SMITH and VLADIMIR BANIC   VELES, Macedonia — Dimitri points to a picture on his Instagram showing a bar table decked with expensive champagne and sparklers.  It's from his 18th birthday just four months ago — a lavish party in his east European hometown that he says wouldn't have been possible without President-elect Donald Trump.  Dimitri — who asked NBC News not to use his real name — is one of dozens of teenagers in the Macedonian town of Veles who got rich during the U.S. presidential election producing fake news for millions on social media. The articles, sensationalist and often baseless, were posted to Facebook, drawing in armies of readers and earning fake-news writers money from penny-per-click advertising.  Dimitri says he's earned at least $60,000 in the past six months — far outstripping his parents' income and transforming his prospects in a town where the average annual wage is $4,800. He is one of the more successful fake news pushers in the area.  His main source of cash? Supporters of America's president-elect.  "Nothing can beat Trump's supporters when it comes to social media engagement," he says. "So that's why we stick with Trump."  Even with the presidential contest over and Google and Facebook's plans to crack down on fake news makers, money continues to pour in.  Posts about Hillary Clinton are also a hit — but only negative ones.  "I have mostly written about her emails, what is contained in her emails, the Benghazi tragedy, maybe her illness that she had," Dimitri adds, but now he's moved on to headlines like: "Trey Gowdy Revealed His EPIC Plan To Imprison Hillary Now That Election's Over, SHE IS DONE!"  Dimitri's sole aim is to make his stories go viral.  His most popular headlines during the election included: "JUST IN: Obama Illegally Transferred DOJ Money To Clinton Campaign!" and "BREAKING: Obama Confirms Refusal To Leave White House, He Will Stay In Power!"  The teenager is unrepentant about any influence his stories may have had on swaying public opinion.  "I didn't force anyone to give me money," he says. "People sell cigarettes, they sell alcohol. That's not illegal, why is my business illegal? If you sell cigarettes, cigarettes kill people. I didn't kill anyone." The same weekend that NBC spent with Dimitri, a gunman opened fire in a Washington, D.C., pizzeria. The shooter told police he was motivated by a fake news story. The pizzeria, Comet Ping Pong, was accused online of hosting a pedophile ring run by Democratic leaders. Asked about the incident this week, Dimitri claimed he wasn't familiar with the story nor the people who had spread it online.   A Modern Gold Rush The small, rust-belt town of Veles has found itself in the international spotlight after investigations by BuzzFeed and the Guardian traced more than 100 fake news domain names here.  The fake news bonanza couldn't have come against a more jarring backdrop. Once part of communist Yugoslavia, the Republic of Macedonia has a population of 2.1 million in a landlocked area about the size Vermont. Blanketed by rugged mountains, parts of the country have enjoyed a tourism surge in recent years. But vacationers won't find Veles in many travel guides. The town of 50,000 is almost an hour's drive down a lonely, crumbling highway from the capital, Skopje. Macedonia is landlocked by Bulgaria, Serbia, Kosovo, Albania and Greece. Google Maps Visitors are greeted by a distressed mosaic of red-roofed buildings, densely stacked onto a steep mountainside. Industrial smokestacks add to a wintry fog settling over the valley — though even their output has diminished after several recent factory closures.  Almost a quarter of Macedonians are currently unemployed — a rate around five times higher than in the U.S. But the burdens that weigh on Veles might also explain why it's become a global hotbed for fake news. High unemployment and a close-knit community meant that when Dimitri and others started making money, word quickly spread and everyone wanted a piece of the action.  Most teens here speak fluent English, allowing them to quickly navigate through reams of Western news sites and pinpoint potentially viral content.  Dimitri estimates there are now 300 locals dabbling in fake news, with at least 50 making "decent money," and around a dozen making "a lot." He says he's not quite at the top of the pecking order, but not far off.   But he is no scrappy teenager. Dimitri is bright, with an obvious aptitude for business.  He won't show NBC News his profile on Google AdSense, an online advertising service that allows websites to make money, to protect five other teenagers who asked him not to reveal aspects of their shared interests. He's also wary of revealing his full income, worried it will make him a target for thieves, or worse. However, he does show NBC News a digital receipt from Google showing he earned more than $8,000 from the web giant in September. He says this was just one of several advertising accounts, and claims his most successful streak — in the run-up to the election — saw him rake in $27,000 in just one month.  When asked for comment about the persistence of fake news even after the election, Facebook directed NBC News to a post from CEO Mark Zuckerberg last month in which he laid out the company's plan to tackle the phenomenon.  In an interview with TODAY on Thursday, Facebook Chief Operating Officer Sheryl Sandberg acknowledged "there's a lot more to do."  Google outlined steps last month that it said would restrict advertising on websites that "misrepresent, misstate, or conceal information." The company did not respond to NBC News' requests for comment on this apparently still-flourishing industry. Dimitri says even after the election, while business is less brisk, his fake news is still highly profitable. Like any business, he's aware of the need to adapt. "This business updates every hour, every ten minutes, every minute," he says. "There are always news ideas, new types of generating new visitors and that's the thing we all want." So while newspapers across the globe are losing advertising revenue, Dimitri's empire of lies is thriving. He says he now employs three 15-year-olds, paying them the equivalent of $10 per day. As well as buying new laptops and paying cash to boost his posts on social media, he has also invested some of his earnings into real estate — a joint venture with his parents, who are more than happy with his success.   The Anatomy of a Lie As with many regular journalists, Dimitri starts his day by trawling the web looking for trending topics that he can harness to drive traffic to his websites. He copies his posts from other fake news websites, including many in the U.S., or takes content from mainstream media organizations before peppering them with invented details. He also posts provocative online polls such as: "Should Trump Deport All Refugees?" and: "Do you consider Donald Trump, the Jesus of America?" Most of this content is published on websites Dimitri has built to look like NBC News, Fox News, the Huffington Post and others. A fake news page run from Macedonia that is made to look like Huffington Post. To the untrained eye, fake headlines such as: "BREAKING: Obama Confirms Refusal To Leave White House, He Will Stay In Power!" look genuine. The only giveaway is the imitation URL.  From then on, it's a case of throwing as much mud at the wall and seeing what sticks. "The most-read news articles are usually the ones containing the click-bait words," Dimitri says. "The click bait words, as you know, are, 'Oh my god, breaking news, wow,' and usually something that has never been aired before. Because if the title just says, 'Today this happened, today that happened,' no one will open that." He and his collaborators post these stories to their Facebook pages dozens of times a day. Again, he would only show NBC News a Facebook page that he runs on his own, which has an impressive 86,000 likes. But he said the six pages run by his collective have amassed more than 3 million likes between them. "Say you produce ten lies a day, [the audience] is not going to believe ten lies, they are going to believe probably one or maximum two," he says. "Usually the lies about [Clinton's] emails and the lies about Hillary. The anti-Hillary posts were really good." Stories from USA Daily News 24, a fake news site registered in Veles, Macedonia. An Associated Press analysis using web intelligence service Domain Tools shows that USA Daily News 24 is one of roughly 200 U.S.-oriented sites registered in Veles, which has emerged as the unlikely hub for the distribution of disinformation on Facebook. Both stories shown here are bogus.  Dimitri says he has set up more than 50 domain names in six months, all in a bid to please Facebook's algorithm and get the maximum number of eyeballs on his posts. He claims in that time his posts have achieved some 40 million page views. "We stay up late and we don't sleep that much — I haven't slept good for a couple of months now," he says. "I have to go to school and then at night I have to work." He and his colleagues see the process as an art. At first they worked on a basis of trial-and-error. Now it comes naturally. "You see what people like and you just give it to them," he explains. "You see they like water, you give water, they like wine, you give wine. It's really simple." The challenge of engaging readers on social media is one familiar to most journalists. They have a formidable opponent in Dimitri and his peers; analysis by BuzzFeed after the election showed that fake news websites actually performed better than conventional press and television.  Dimitri is unequivocal about why the mainstream couldn't compete: "They're not allowed to lie."   Partying to the Tune of Fake News The influx of money has created a thriving party culture in Veles.  On Saturday, one local nightclub was barely keeping up with demand, as dozens of teens and young adults ordered ice buckets filled with large $35 bottles of vodka. In this new era, the purveyors of fake news are the coolest kids in the schoolyard.  "Since fake news started, girls are more interested in geeks than macho guys," says one 17-year-old girl standing at the bar.  The most successful fake-news publishers have "bought themselves houses, apartments, maybe invested in some real estate or in some businesses," according to Dimitri. "They have bought themselves cars, they have bought ... their girlfriends better cars, better places to live," he says. Keen to feed off this gold rush, the nightclub even plans to organize a club night on the same day that Google pays out its advertising money.  A nightclub in the Macedonian town of Veles where teenagers dabbling in fake news go to party. Following Google and Facebook's vow to clamp down on fake news, Dimitri says he knows people have lost tens of thousands after their accounts were shuttered. "When they started to shut down webpages, business went down," says 20-year-old Kiko, a bartender at the nightclub. The impact appears to have been short lived, however, judging by the healthy flow of local currency, the Macedonian denar, being shoved into the club's cash registers. Most people are cagey about admitting any direct involvement in fake news. But Tony, a 40-year-old taxi driver, says that every young person he knows — including his own son — is in on the act. "I've been doing this job for 18 years and I know everyone in the city," he says. "I know kids who are minors, 16 or 17 years old, and they bought BMWs after running these websites." Is he worried about his son making money from selling hoaxes online? "It's better to do this job than to go into the drug business," he says. Also unperturbed is Veles' mayor, Slavcho Chadiev. "Is it criminal activity? Not according to the law of Macedonia," he says during an interview in his office. "All that money went through the state system and everyone paid their taxes." He isn't bothered by accusations that Veles' teens swayed the U.S. election. In fact, he welcomes the idea. "Not as a mayor, but as a man and as a citizen, I'm glad if Veles contributed to the Republicans' victory and Trump's victory," he says.   A view of Veles in November.  Like many Macedonians, he blames recent Democratic administrations in Washington for not doing more to help their country's attempts to join the European Union and NATO. (Greece has blocked these efforts in a dispute over Macedonia's name — the country's official title at the United Nations is the cumbersome Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia.) On the flip side, the mayor still remembers fondly when Republican President George W. Bush recognized his country's new title in 2004. What would he do if he encountered one of these fake news tycoons? "I would ask him, 'Are you looking for a job?' Because I have a lack of IT guys," he says, before admitting that the salary of less than $400 might not be attractive. Dimitri says his goal is to earn $1 million, and it's no surprise the young entrepreneur sees Trump as "a small role model." There's only one question that sees doubt creep into Dimitri's cocksure demeanor. When he copies posts from other fake news websites, does he worry he's being used as a pawn to spread propaganda? "When you buy a certain product, you don't know who created it," he says. "You don't know who creates your shoes, and there are rumors that small children in Africa create them." He adds: "Maybe I don't want to find out, because if I find out maybe I'm going to feel bad. Right now I'm feeling OK.
    • I WAS AGAINST IT!!!! If it wasn't for Jay Cutler, Mauer's, would by far be the worst contract in sports history!
    • striker for me...I have had the suit for 3 years now and absolutely love it.  I wear the inner jacket everyday and when I go ice fishing I never worry about being cold as the suit is as warm as can be and I know that if I were to have an unfortunate incident and fell in I will be floating on top! 
    • Goldman Sachs has been smiling all the way to the bank lately...   As noted by market legend Art Cashin, the director of floor operations at UBS and long-time trading veteran, Goldman Sachs, one of the 30 stocks making up the Dow Jones Industrial Average index, has been responsible for a huge amount of the increase in that index. From Cashin’s daily commentary on Wednesday (emphasis added): “The Dow closed up 35 points and almost 23 of those points came from Goldman Sachs (GS). In fact, our good friend and fellow trading veteran, Jim Brown, at Option Investor, points out that GS has rallied $57 since the election. That means that GS has provided 441 of the 1363 points that the Dow has rallied. In case your calculator batteries are dead, that’s about one third of the rally, all due to Goldman.“    
    • The bigfoot blocks the light just fine. I bought used so there were portions of it that were worn and had tiny holes, but even with that I could see great. Making sure your skirt is down properly and covering up the floor make a much bigger difference. I use EVA foam exercise tiles for the floor, light weight and shed the water well.

      This year I went around and patched up a bunch of those, I used something we had lying around called Gesso, but I am guessing white out would have worked fine. Let that dry and then went over it with a sharpie. I doubt it will make a difference in me getting a fish or not, but needed to fill some time with the late ice  .   I am fairly certain this is the style of interior that caused the issue of seeing lines in the hole.
  • Our Sponsors