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Fishin Dan

Good Combo?

15 posts in this topic

What do you guys think of a 7'6" H st.croix rod paired with a Abu Garcia c4 6600 reel? This is my first musky rod so its gonna have to work for most stlye baits since i decided to go back to college so money will be tighter for a while. I have a c4 reel on my current rod i use for northern and bass and like it so i figured i would go with what i know. Any thought on the rod or reel? Thanks

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You're on the right track for your rod... but for your reel... I would suggest a 6500 C3, 6600 SSC3, Okuma Induron or Red Isis... You can also check out hsolist for reels cheap...

C4's are good but definitely not recommended if you plan to use anything like Double Cowgirls or any double-bladed bucktails... Its nice to have a high speed reel like that but its not durable... as I had one last year... traded it in for a 6600C3 which later blew out... I now strictly stick to 7000iC3 when it comes to big lures like Double Cowgirls or SuperD's and use 6600SSC3 when it comes to small bucktails, topwaters, glide/jerkbaits...

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I use a 7'6" H st.croix paired up with a Daiwa Luna 300 reel and like it a lot. I have used the c4 reels before for a short time and worked great for small bucktails (harrassers/mepps) but went back with the c3 I had on another rod so its gonna depend what you plan on throwing out. Rebel covered it for ya and something you could think about if you plan on buying a new reel.

I got my Lunas (2) off hsolist in the spring time and were pretty cheap and in great condition and its something you could do and then just bought a brand new Calcutta 700b for cheap as well, so look around there and you could find decent prices. Good luck!

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Fishin_Dan,

I have to echo what the guys are saying, the C4 has a 6.3:1 gear ratio (which is what I use on my JerkBait rod) I can "pick line up faster" with it when I'm Twitching & Jerking & sweeping.

However, for you I'd go with a C3 with a 5.3:1 Gear ratio.

Your 7'6" H St.croix will serve you well!

Depending on who you talk to, some people might say the 7-6 might be to long to use for a Jerk Bait Rod, but opinions do vary!

Best Of Luck!

Brian K

www.kaisertail.com

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I have just started to get into Muskie fishing. I have a New C4 66000 that I picked up for $25 and I guess I don't understand what the problem is. I also was just given two C3's from my father in law, so it is not that I don't have the equipment. The problem is that I primarily a Walleye guy and don't understand the differences. I have been fishing for 22 years and just learned how to cast a baitcasting reel, so this is all new to me. I am going out on Saturday and I want to have the right gear to throw my new double cowgirl. Any info would be great. Explain it like I have never used one before.

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I'm not an expert but like you I fished for years (many with a baitcaster) and still couldn't understand the C3/C4 thing. My thoughts were "4 bearing are better than 3 - I'll use my C4 thank you very much." I even did the math and saw that the C4 with the higher gear ratio would pick up more inches of line per crank than the C3. I just couldn't get my arms around why I wouldn't want the "better" more expensive reel. I even saw all the posts here and was a bit skeptical - while guys on this board may not always tell where and when for fish, they are extremely helpful and knowledgable about gear and I trust what they say. I then I went to the lake and tried casting a Double Cowgirl with each reel on similar length rods and it was night and day. I'll spare you the gear ratio stuff as I'm not well schooled enough to make sense of it, but I can tell you the C3 WILL work better. Add a power handle and it will work even better. The best way to explain it would be to use the analogy of a boat lift, would you rather crank a heavy wooden boat up on the lift using the winch handle from your trailer or using the handle on the big wheel? I don't think there is anything wrong with C4 in general (I sill use one for jerkbaits and walk-the-dog WTD lures) - I WOULD NOT use one for double ten bucktails though. I hope that makes sense. Spool up one of your newly acquired C3's on a heavy-ish flippin' stick and put the C4 on a shorter rod and you are set. I wouldn't go spend a ton on new rods yet as you may find you prefer one bait to another or one style to another. Good luck.

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Thanks guys! Ya i was in the same boat as you HugoBox i never got the whole c3/c4 thing. I knew that they had differnt gear ratios but never really got the difference. But now everything makes alot more sense. I am defintily going to go with the c3 now.

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another vote for the c3. I have both and the c3 is much easier than my c4.

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Its all about the power/torque... general rule is that lower the gear ratio, more power/torque it gives out...

Like Hugobox said, it is clearly day/night difference between C3 and C4... C3 line is designed to be workhorses while C4 line is designed to be high-speed... Only if Abu would combine both... then they'll have an answer to the Trinidad...

Only reel thats reliable that has a gear ratio of 6 would be the Shimano Trinidad... but thats just because its a salt-water reel... Its designed to throw out plenty power/torque... unlike C4... Hope this helps some...

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That is great information. I will put my C3 on my big stick for the Double Cowgirls and bull dogs and then throw the C4 on my shorter rod for jerk baits, spinner baits and burning small bucktails. Am I right in this theory?

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Very simple in store test...thumb down on the spool and then crank. This is used to simulate a load on the reel and one will crank with more authority than the other one.

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That is great information. I will put my C3 on my big stick for the Double Cowgirls and bull dogs and then throw the C4 on my shorter rod for jerk baits, spinner baits and burning small bucktails. Am I right in this theory?

Thats the right thinking... but word of warning... dont expect your C3 to last long if you're going to use DCGs as much as I did... I had two C3's that blew out on me because I used DCGs MOST of the time last year... I now have two 7000iC3 exclusively for DCGs... Much easier and 7000 is the true workhorse of the C3 line...

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My C3 is a 5500 and is a bit older. Should I try to upgrade now? What about the Abu Ambassader Trophy Tournament Series? I am worried it is the same as a C4. I also have the opportunity to get a Ambassadeur D5 with a 5:3:1 gear ratio, an Ambassadeur Record 6 ball-bearing 6:3:1, or I can get a C3 6500. I can get these reels for almost Free. What do you think?

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Really 5500 and 6500 are the same... just different spool capacity... If I was you, I would upgrade to a 7000iC3 for DCGs... and save the 5500/6500C3 for the rest... I used my 6600SSC3 tonite for Magnum SuperD's without any problem... I even managed to reel up a cantulope-sized rock covered in weed earlier tonite... I thought it was a BIG fish... but sadly it wasnt...

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Would the 5500 blow out sooner than the 6500 simply because it's a smaller reel?

The two main differences between the C3 and the C4 are:

1. The C3 has 3 ball bearings, whereas the C4 has four. Simple enough.

2. The C3 Series reels have a gear ration of 5:1, whereas the C4s have a 6:1.

The gear ratio means how many times the spool will spin with one crank of the handle. A 5:1 means that for every 1 crank, the spool will spin 5 times. A 6:1 will turn 6 times.

So a C4 will pick up more line, and move baits faster than the C3. Good, right?

WRONG. With heavy duty musky baits such as the Double Cowgirls, DC10s, and even some of the heavy swimbaits and crankbaits, you're looking at A LOT of stress on the reel. Now with a higher gear ratio, you put even more stress on the reel because you're causing it to do more work. Naturally this decreases the lifespan of the reel.

A lot of guys on here say their C4s make it one or two seasons at the most when they try to pull heavy baits. At Gander I've spooled up C3s with line, and those reels had to be at least 20 years old.

Also, since the C4 is pulling more line it, it's actually harder on YOU too, since you're doing more work. That's where a power handle comes in. It's a one handled arm that's much bigger, hence easier to crank.

But if you're truly looking for a "big lure" reel, I can't stress enough to get something BIGGER than the C3. As you guys can see in this thread, a lot of guys still have problems with DCGs and bigger lures with their C3.

I personally use a Abu Garcia 7000, which is a monster of a reel, comes with a power handle, and is actually only a 4:1. BUT the reel is so big that it STILL picks up more line than either the C3 OR the C4, in memory serves me correctly.

The C3 is a great all-around reel, the 7000 is a great big lure reel (it can still handle smaller stuff), and the C4 is great for small bucktails, topwaters, and jerkbaits where you want to either buzz the bait in fast, or pick up line quickly after a jerk/twitch/sweep of the rod.

Hope that was easy to follow and understand!

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    • Lots of different fish to chase in that lake. Just switch up your target fish and try something different.


    • Minnesota DNR News
      For Immediate Release:
      July 21, 2017
      In This Issue

      Conserving Mille Lacs walleye population requires regulation changes

      Mille Lacs Lake Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for summer 2017

      Conserving Mille Lacs walleye population requires regulation changes

      Walleye fishing on Mille Lacs Lake will remain closed until Aug. 11 to protect the walleye fishery, and ensure its long-term health and sustainability into the future

      To extend the walleye fishing season through Labor Day, the state will allow for an additional 11,000 pounds of walleye harvest on Mille Lacs 

      New solutions are being sought to rebuild and sustain a healthy Mille Lacs walleye fishery

      New fisheries data collected by the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources show the total safe harvest allocation for walleyes on Mille Lacs Lake (44,800 pounds) has already been exceeded this season. To protect the fishery and ensure the long-term sustainability of Mille Lacs Lake’s walleye population, the DNR announced today that walleye fishing will remain closed until Friday, Aug. 11.

      In order to extend the walleye fishing season through Labor Day, the state will allow for an additional 11,000 pounds of walleye harvest. Catch-and-release walleye fishing will run from Friday, Aug. 11, through Monday, Sept. 4, for the Labor Day weekend. Walleye fishing will then be closed from Tuesday, Sept. 5, through Thursday, Nov. 30.

      As these regulation changes were announced, Minnesota DNR Commissioner Tom Landwehr reiterated the state’s commitment to rebuilding and sustaining a healthy walleye fishery in Mille Lacs Lake.

      “Improving the walleye population in Mille Lacs is a top priority for the DNR,” Landwehr said. “We deeply regret the hardships these new regulations will cause for anglers and business owners. But they are essential to protect and enhance the future of walleye fishing in the lake for future generations. We will continue doing everything we can to understand the challenges facing the walleye fishery, and take whatever actions we can to resolve this very difficult situation.”

      Landwehr and DNR fisheries chief Don Pereira noted that allowing for additional catch-and-release fishing in August is essential for area anglers, businesses, and Mille Lacs area communities. The decision to allow for this additional harvest was made with input from the Mille Lacs Fisheries Advisory Committee.

      “We want to allow as much walleye fishing on Mille Lacs as possible,” Pereira said. “So even though state anglers already have caught their quota of fish, the DNR will dip into the allowed conservation overage to reopen the season on Aug. 11.”

      Through the closure, anglers on Mille Lacs Lake may fish for all other species in the lake including bass, muskellunge and northern pike. When fishing for other species, only artificial baits and lures will be allowed in possession, except for anglers targeting northern pike or muskie, who may fish with sucker minnows longer than 8 inches.

      A prohibition on night fishing will remain in place from 10 p.m. to 6 a.m. through Nov. 30. However, anglers may fish for muskie and northern pike at night, but may only use artificial lures longer than 8 inches or sucker minnows longer than 8 inches. Bowfishing for rough fish also is allowed at night but possession of angling equipment is not allowed and only rough fish may be in possession.

      Understanding walleye fishing quotas on Mille Lacs this year, and why that quota was reached earlier than predicted
      The DNR and the Chippewa bands that cooperatively manage Mille Lacs Lake agreed this year to harvest quotas of 44,800 pounds for state anglers and 19,200 pounds for tribal fishing. They also agreed that up to 75,000 pounds of walleye could be harvested from the lake from Dec. 1, 2016 to Nov. 30, 2017.

      That agreement allows the state to use a built-in buffer – the 11,000 pounds difference between the 75,000 pounds conservation cap and the 64,000 pounds combined harvest quotas – in an attempt to allow catch-and-release walleye fishing through Labor Day, following the mid-summer closure. Bi-weekly creel surveys show that state anglers already have reached their quota.

      “The DNR is using its full allotment to maximize opportunities to fish for walleye on Mille Lacs without violating our agreement,” Pereira said. “The DNR, just like area businesses, would greatly prefer to not have fishing restrictions in place. But sustaining and stabilizing Mille Lacs’ walleye population is our primary obligation and public responsibility.”

      Continuing the walleye fishing closure will reduce the number of fish that die after being caught and released, a condition known as hooking mortality. The likelihood of fish suffering hooking mortality increases as water temperatures warm.

      High walleye catch rates on Mille Lacs have increased DNR fishing projections. A hot walleye bite attracted more anglers to the lake, resulting in angler effort that is about double what it was in 2016.

      “Cooler than normal temperatures kept hooking mortality rates low, but more anglers fished Mille Lacs, particularly catching walleye longer than 20 inches,” Pereira said. “That increased the poundage of fish caught and put us over our walleye quota.”

      According to the DNR, bigger fish are biting, in part, because there is a shortage of food for larger walleye. Last fall’s assessment showed that larger walleye were thinner than average.

      Mille Lacs’ hot bite also reflects the findings of studies done in many other fisheries that show catchability actually increases when fish population drops. In Mille Lacs, walleye congregate in preferred spots rather than disperse evenly throughout the lake. Fewer fish in the lake means there is more room in the preferred spots for fish to gather, creating a situation where a larger percentage of the population is in position to be caught rather than gathering in a less preferred but less fished area.

      More information about Mille Lacs Lake, the regulation adjustments and management of the fishery is available on the DNR page at www.mndnr.gov/millelacslake.

      New solutions are being sought to improve and sustain a healthy walleye fishery
      The DNR announced in June that a new external review team of scientists will take a fresh look at Mille Lacs Lake’s walleye fishery, using all of the best science available to gain a better understanding of the lake. This new review, led by walleye expert Dr. Chris Vandergoot of the U.S. Geological Survey, will provide additional recommendations to improve fisheries management of the lake, and contribute to a long-term solution to improving and sustaining a healthy walleye fishery for future generations. The group’s report is expected in time to help guide and inform fisheries management decisions for the 2018 season.

      DNR encourages Minnesotans to fish for other abundant species on Mille Lacs Lake
      As today’s walleye fishing regulation changes were announced, the DNR encouraged all Minnesotans to visit Mille Lacs Lake to fish the other abundant species that the lake has to offer. Mille Lacs Lake’s other opportunities for top-notch fishing will not be affected by the regulation adjustment.

      Bassmaster Magazine named Mille Lacs the nation’s best bass lake in June and will send 50 of the country’s best anglers to the lake In September for its Angler of the Year tournament. Northern pike abound in Mille Lacs, along with muskellunge. In early July, a woman from southern Minnesota caught and released in Mille Lacs what may have been Minnesota’s largest-ever muskellunge.

      To learn more about Mille Lacs Lake and its many great fishing opportunities, visit the DNR page. To plan visit to the Mille Lacs area, visit the Mille Lacs Area Tourism Council page.

      ###

      Mille Lacs Lake Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for summer 2017
      Q: What is happening with the walleye season this summer on Mille Lacs Lake?

      A: The closure that began July 8 and was set to end July 28 is being extended by two weeks. That means walleye fishing will reopen at 6:01 a.m. on Aug. 11 for catch-and-release only through Labor Day. A night fishing closure also will remain in place from 10 p.m. to 6 a.m. through Nov. 30.

      Q: How does this affect fishing for other species?

      A: Fishing regulations for other species such as smallmouth bass, muskie and northern pike remain the same. During the night closure, there is an exception for muskie and northern pike anglers using artificial lures and sucker minnows longer than 8 inches.

      Q: Why did the DNR extend the closure?

      A: While the DNR wants to allow as much walleye fishing on Mille Lacs as possible, the state is also required to abide by cooperative agreements made with eight American Indian Chippewa bands. The two weeks of additional closure allows the state to abide by a harvest quota set earlier this year with the bands.

      The DNR and the bands agreed to harvest quotas of 44,800 pounds for state anglers and 19,200 pounds for tribal fishing. They also agreed that up to 75,000 pounds of walleye could be sustainably harvested from the lake from Dec. 1, 2016 to Nov. 30, 2017 in order to conserve the population

      That agreement allows the state to use a built-in buffer – the 11,000 pounds difference between the conservation cap of 75,000 pounds and the combined harvest quota of 64,000 pounds – in an attempt to allow catch-and-release walleye fishing through Labor Day, following the mid-summer closure.

      The latest creel survey data shows that state anglers reached their quota of 44,800 pounds of walleye caught from Mille Lacs in early July. Even though state anglers already have caught their quota of fish, the DNR is dipping into the allowed conservation reserve in order to reopen the season on Aug. 11.

      Q: Why has the walleye population in Mille Lacs declined? What is the DNR doing in the long-term to try to conserve the population?

      A: The vast majority of walleye that hatch do not survive to their third autumn in the lake. Walleye numbers have declined to the point that it has become important to protect spawning-sized walleye, particularly the class of walleye that hatched in 2013. It is important to protect the large 2013 year class to replenish aging spawning stock.  Most males from the 2013 class are now mature, but females will not start to contribute in large numbers until next spring. The state is committed to conserving the population of walleyes born in 2013 to improve and rebuild a sustainable population for the future.

      Q: Why do we count hooking mortality during a closed walleye season?

      A: The amount that state anglers can kill (as spelled out in state-bands agreements) also must include fish that die as a result of hooking mortality, the fish that die after being caught and then released back into the water. During the closure, some anglers still catch walleye incidentally and some of those fish die after being released. Under the state-band agreements, those dead fish must be calculated and counted against the state’s allocation.

      Q: How did this cooperative management between the state and the bands of Mille Lacs Lake come to be?   

      A: Recall that in 1999, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld lower-court decisions that allowed the Mille Lacs band and seven other Chippewa bands to exercise off-reservation fishing and hunting rights. The lower federal court also set up guidelines, known as stipulations and protocols, for both sides to follow. These stipulations and protocols provide a framework for how the bands and the state must work cooperatively to manage shared natural resources, including Mille Lacs fish.  In their agreements, the DNR and the bands are required to annually establish the number of walleye that can safely be harvested from Mille Lacs while ensuring sufficient remaining walleye in the lake for a healthy fishery.

      Q: If the walleye population is in decline, why are anglers catching so many?

      A: Fish are biting for two reasons. First, there is a shortage of food for larger walleye. Last fall’s assessment showed that larger walleye were thinner than average. Second, studies in many fisheries show that catchability actually increases when fish population decline.

      In Mille Lacs, walleye congregate in preferred spots rather than disperse evenly throughout the lake. Fewer fish in the lake means there’s more room in the preferred spots for fish to gather, and anglers find these spots where they can catch a larger portion of fish. Finally, while the walleye population has decreased considerably (by half or more), the amount of fishing pressure has declined by a lot more. This means that there are more walleye per angler fishing Mille Lacs today.

      Q: How is the DNR using science and research to help the walleye population?

      A: Mille Lacs Lake is the most studied lake in Minnesota. It is also a complex and changing system. The agency conducts a large number of surveys on the lake annually. These surveys include assessing the abundance of young walleye; setting 52 nets to assess adult abundance; using fine-mesh nets each summer to determine abundance of food (prey fish) for walleye; and using interviews with anglers around the lake (called creel surveys) to estimate the number of fish anglers are catching. The DNR also periodically tags walleye and other species to provide actual population estimates. We are tagging bass this year in cooperation with angling groups, and will be tagging walleye in 2018 and 2019 when the 2013 year class will be reaching full maturity.

      Q: What is the purpose of the external review the DNR has initiated?

      A: The DNR has asked Dr. Chris Vandergoot to lead an independent review of the DNR’s scientific approaches to manage Mille Lacs Lake. Vandergoot is a key member of the international team that co-manages a very significant walleye fishery in Lake Erie. He works for the U.S. Geological Survey in the Sandusky Lake Erie Biological station in Ohio. His review report will be available to the public in early 2018 and will help inform fisheries management decisions for the 2018 season.

      Q: What does the future look like for Mille Lacs walleye?

      A: It is unlikely that Mille Lacs walleye production will return to the levels that state anglers enjoyed over 20 years ago.  The ecosystem of Mille Lacs is going through extreme change, starting with increased water clarity in the mid-1990s, to impacts today from aquatic invasive species such as spiny water flea and zebra mussels. Longer growing seasons are also helping some species such as smallmouth bass but may be hurting others. While walleye will still be abundant, the future fishery will be more diverse, offering angling opportunities for a greater variety of fish.

      ###
    • Lots of politics.  Probably more info in the mille lacs section 
    • Great info!  I haven't done much trout fishing outside of lake trout, so can you tell me if you're allowed to keep any or all of these fish or is it a catch and release fishery only?
    • So what is going on with Mille Lacs?
    • Anyone have any experiance with these?   http://northernlightsrattlereel.com/    
    • Anyone have any experiance with these?   http://northernlightsrattlereel.com/    
    • They were on right. Just rusted up. I took a sander and cleaned up the blades and auger touched up the flighting with some rustolem gloss black.    What I'm trying to figure out is if the blade mout on this jiffy jet is bent or normal. I'm thinking they are fine/correct. They look like they should be a flat blade, but are curved slightly......It looks like a hybrid between a shaver blade & a lazer blade.    Once I cleaned up the blade I turned them on a sheet of plastic and it cut in well. Guess I'll have to wait until ice to see. 
    •   No just got stickers and stuff sent when I bought stuff. A few years ago I emailed some companies asking for stickers and they sent them free of charge. Used them on my Ice rod case, vexilar pak, and stuff so I could tell which one was mine since others had some of the same gear. Those were leftover stickers so I put them on the Mini fridge. Salmo sent some sweet stickers that were measuring tapes. Put one of those on the counter to measure fish & has a lot of info on it.
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