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mnfinsandfur

Best types of gas for the boat?

22 posts in this topic

Being from Minnesota it is getting harder to find ethanol free gas for the boat, most of it is 10%. Has anyone heard of any problems with using 10% ethanol in the boat? I’m running a 2004 60hp Merc, oil injected……….

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You need to put Non-Oxy Gold in your motor, there is no ethanol in it. I been using it for the last 6 years in all my outboards, chainsaws, lawn mower, weed eater, anything except my truck. It's a diesel, if it was gas - I would put it in there also.

Go with Non-Oxy Gold, it's a little more expensive, but it's alot better on your motor and you will get better milage.

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I'm not a big fan of oxygenated fuel either but at $4.00 a gallon for the cheap stuff it works fine in my Yammie 40 hp 2 stroke. I use it in everything I have and have never had a problem. Easier to find and a lot cheaper too.

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You will probably hear differently from the more techeeee people on here, but I have had never had a problem with ethanol blends. I just make sure to use Stabil over the off season. I use it in my snowblowers, lawnmowers, gas trimmers/chainsaw, ice auger...

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If you can't find it you can't find it.. simple as that.

There's no harm done in running the lower grade gas, as long as it meets the minimum octane requirements specified by your motor manufacturer.

If you use the gas quick enough it's not an issue. If you don't I'd be sure to use a fuel stabilizer.

marine_man

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The only reason to use premium is for motors with a higher compression ratio. The higher octane rating means it has to get to a higher temperature to spontaneously combust. If gas spontaneously combusts before the spark, it causes engine knocking.

for small engines i usually use premium, for a vehicle i think it is a waste of money unless they call for it.

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I have a 1967 Chrysler outboard and have always used 87 octane. I rebuild my carb and fuel pump every 3 or 4 years and the cost is under 30 bucks total for both kits. The key thing with gas is to always buy it from the same place. Different companies use different additives and if you mix them additives it is almost like napalm. It can create a sludge that is hard on the carb. I live next to SA and I always buy gas there for my gas cans and never have a problem with it. I have read that higher octane gas tends to not burn as well leaving higher carbon deposits in motors. The main reason most people use higher octane gas on an outboard is because it is the only kind available that is non oxygenated.

Mine is so old the factory manual recommeds lead substitute. I feel bad enough when I loose a lead sinker in a lake but using the stuff in my gas just seems wrong.

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but I have had never had a problem with ethanol blends. I just make sure to use Stabil over the off season. I use it in my snowblowers, lawnmowers, gas trimmers/chainsaw, ice auger...

Exactly! I have NEVER had any fuel related problems in anything I own, from snow blower to boat motor. I treat the gas with either Stabil or Seafoam as directed. Some of my stuff is lucky to get two tanks a year run thru it and I've never had a problem. Save the high octane stuff for what needs it, use what the manufacturer recomends as far as octane rating.

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Ive gone through 2 fuel pumps on my yamaha with ethenal blend. I was told the ethanal ate away the seals inside. I actually frose the engine and melted engine piston because of the fuel pump.

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I take that back, in 1993 I had a fuel injector go bad because of the alcohol. They said it ate the insulation off the wires inside the coil. That was 1993.

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I have always run standard 87 octane in my boats and never had a problem. No oxy around here.

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Most motors (dating back 30+ yrs) are designed to run 87 octane gasoline. The problems with ethanol are:

1. Alcohol can damage older fuel lines/seals, etc.

2. Alcohol acts as a solvent, removing "varnish" left by gas sitting in the carb/tank. This crud can then end up in the cylinder eek

3. Alcohol will absorb water and separate from gasoline if left to sit for an extended period, this will cause major problems for your motor.

If you plan to use ethanol a lot, consider doing this

Good to add a water separator if you use ethanol based fuel.

New motors, 8-10 yrs old, should be fine using 87 octane E10, but you should check your manual to be sure.

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I use the non-oxy with a stabilizer when I know I'm not going to run through the fuel quickly. If I need to fill and I know I'm going to use it, I'll use 87 to save a few bucks.

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If you want to see a list of locations throughout the state that carry non-oxy gas, go to the MN Street Rod Assoc HSOforum. It is a pretty comprehensive list.

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MN just passed a law that will allow resorts and marinas to sell NON OXY 87 octane. This is for boats and small engines only. This is the old regular unleaded before they oxigenated it.

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It must be a regional thing because up here in NE MN I never have a problem finding Non-oxy gas. It is the premium and I pay a little more for it but every station here has it.

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The whole thing is that the lower octane fuel creates less carbon buildup in the engine (that is the advantage of using the 87 over the 91). If you are old enough to remember the days of high compression engines in cars they used to talk about taking her out and blowing the carbon out of it. This is because the high test fuel tended to carbon up the engine in 'round town driving and it was thought that going out and running the car up the highway real hard would clean it out some. (this does not work in a two stroke because the two stroke actually burns the oil and makes the carbon sticky and hard as opposed to a sooty dry coating). Can't say if it really worked but alot of people did it. Carbon will get behind the rings and cause premature wear or possibly even hard part damage like a broken ring jamming in a port and dropping a cylinder. People believe that octane makes a fuel more explosive. The opposite is what is actually true. It controls combustion allowing for a more complete burn. This is where the power comes from. The expansion is lasting longer during the powerstroke. The down side is this "retardant", octane, creates soot because it burns cooler. I'm sorry for lecturing. I will stop now. Hope this helps.

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Hey guys,

The question/issue wasn't about running regular/silver/gold fuel he wanted to know about running e-10 if it was ok or not for his motor.

I would suggest against it, but if you can't find any in your area then you are out of luck.

Like casey mentioned, it is easy to find in Northern MN.

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I believe that any motor designed and built within the last 20 years is going to be designed for use with 10% blend. It would not be in the best interest of the manufacturer not to do so.

Outfitter, you sound a lot like most of us south of the border did when 10% blends first hit the market. After running non-oxygenated for years before, the sudden change to ethanol blends dislodged and dissolved build-up of crud that pre-ethanol gasolines left behind. The result was plugged fuel filters and an initial fear of using ethanol blends. I believe that 10% ethanol is now beginning to move north of the border into your neck of the woods and now you too are going through the same scenario. Take heart. Once your systems clean up they'll adjust just fine.

I would suspect that a 2004 outboard should not be a worry. I know my 1998 90hp Johnson 2-stroke recommends 87 octane and does specify 10% ethanol is fine.

As far as using high octane non-oxygenated and getting better results. I beg to differ. I know for a fact that my 2001 F150 loses performance and mileage drops by about 15% if I use it. My Johnson outboard also performs more poorly. It is harder starting and just plain more sluggish. I believe the engine was tuned and timed for the reaction of 87 octane and using 91 or 92 octane along with its resistance to ingnition throws the timing off just enough to reduce performance. It's very small without a doubt but my vehicles have shown it in terms of performance.\

I will agree that the biggest concern is long-term storage. Using fuel stabilizer can help protect you by extending the shelf life of the fuel. Although, I have never experienced issues with it myself. My chain saw gas has been as much as three years old and worked fine including what was in the saw. Same is true with my ice drill, riding lawn mower, push lawn mower (maybe use it once a year), and garden tiller (used twice a year). I don't use stabilizers in any of these but I will say that the one time I did use it in my boat, I did notice that its performance for that first tank in the spring was a little better than previous years.

Bob

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I've been using ethanol/10% blend in my pickup, 140 Suzuki fourstroke, ice auger, etc...and have had nothing but expected performance. Any manual I've ever read says that it can burn "up to 10% ehtanol".

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I've also ran the 87 blend in everything that I have owned...from a mower from the 80's, a new honda mower, weed eater, my old jiffy auger (15+ years old), my new strikemaster auger, my 98 evindrude 50hp, and all my vehicles and have never ran into a problem. (though I sta-bil all my gas for my mowers, weed eaters, and boat motor)

I did see a advertisment on tv about a new product by sta-bil....sta-bil ethanol treatment for marine motors?!?!? I can't find much information on it and haven't seen it in any stores yet, but if you are concerned about ethanol, this may be a choice.

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    • Minnesota DNR News
      For Immediate Release:
      July 21, 2017
      In This Issue

      Conserving Mille Lacs walleye population requires regulation changes

      Mille Lacs Lake Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for summer 2017

      Conserving Mille Lacs walleye population requires regulation changes

      Walleye fishing on Mille Lacs Lake will remain closed until Aug. 11 to protect the walleye fishery, and ensure its long-term health and sustainability into the future

      To extend the walleye fishing season through Labor Day, the state will allow for an additional 11,000 pounds of walleye harvest on Mille Lacs 

      New solutions are being sought to rebuild and sustain a healthy Mille Lacs walleye fishery

      New fisheries data collected by the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources show the total safe harvest allocation for walleyes on Mille Lacs Lake (44,800 pounds) has already been exceeded this season. To protect the fishery and ensure the long-term sustainability of Mille Lacs Lake’s walleye population, the DNR announced today that walleye fishing will remain closed until Friday, Aug. 11.

      In order to extend the walleye fishing season through Labor Day, the state will allow for an additional 11,000 pounds of walleye harvest. Catch-and-release walleye fishing will run from Friday, Aug. 11, through Monday, Sept. 4, for the Labor Day weekend. Walleye fishing will then be closed from Tuesday, Sept. 5, through Thursday, Nov. 30.

      As these regulation changes were announced, Minnesota DNR Commissioner Tom Landwehr reiterated the state’s commitment to rebuilding and sustaining a healthy walleye fishery in Mille Lacs Lake.

      “Improving the walleye population in Mille Lacs is a top priority for the DNR,” Landwehr said. “We deeply regret the hardships these new regulations will cause for anglers and business owners. But they are essential to protect and enhance the future of walleye fishing in the lake for future generations. We will continue doing everything we can to understand the challenges facing the walleye fishery, and take whatever actions we can to resolve this very difficult situation.”

      Landwehr and DNR fisheries chief Don Pereira noted that allowing for additional catch-and-release fishing in August is essential for area anglers, businesses, and Mille Lacs area communities. The decision to allow for this additional harvest was made with input from the Mille Lacs Fisheries Advisory Committee.

      “We want to allow as much walleye fishing on Mille Lacs as possible,” Pereira said. “So even though state anglers already have caught their quota of fish, the DNR will dip into the allowed conservation overage to reopen the season on Aug. 11.”

      Through the closure, anglers on Mille Lacs Lake may fish for all other species in the lake including bass, muskellunge and northern pike. When fishing for other species, only artificial baits and lures will be allowed in possession, except for anglers targeting northern pike or muskie, who may fish with sucker minnows longer than 8 inches.

      A prohibition on night fishing will remain in place from 10 p.m. to 6 a.m. through Nov. 30. However, anglers may fish for muskie and northern pike at night, but may only use artificial lures longer than 8 inches or sucker minnows longer than 8 inches. Bowfishing for rough fish also is allowed at night but possession of angling equipment is not allowed and only rough fish may be in possession.

      Understanding walleye fishing quotas on Mille Lacs this year, and why that quota was reached earlier than predicted
      The DNR and the Chippewa bands that cooperatively manage Mille Lacs Lake agreed this year to harvest quotas of 44,800 pounds for state anglers and 19,200 pounds for tribal fishing. They also agreed that up to 75,000 pounds of walleye could be harvested from the lake from Dec. 1, 2016 to Nov. 30, 2017.

      That agreement allows the state to use a built-in buffer – the 11,000 pounds difference between the 75,000 pounds conservation cap and the 64,000 pounds combined harvest quotas – in an attempt to allow catch-and-release walleye fishing through Labor Day, following the mid-summer closure. Bi-weekly creel surveys show that state anglers already have reached their quota.

      “The DNR is using its full allotment to maximize opportunities to fish for walleye on Mille Lacs without violating our agreement,” Pereira said. “The DNR, just like area businesses, would greatly prefer to not have fishing restrictions in place. But sustaining and stabilizing Mille Lacs’ walleye population is our primary obligation and public responsibility.”

      Continuing the walleye fishing closure will reduce the number of fish that die after being caught and released, a condition known as hooking mortality. The likelihood of fish suffering hooking mortality increases as water temperatures warm.

      High walleye catch rates on Mille Lacs have increased DNR fishing projections. A hot walleye bite attracted more anglers to the lake, resulting in angler effort that is about double what it was in 2016.

      “Cooler than normal temperatures kept hooking mortality rates low, but more anglers fished Mille Lacs, particularly catching walleye longer than 20 inches,” Pereira said. “That increased the poundage of fish caught and put us over our walleye quota.”

      According to the DNR, bigger fish are biting, in part, because there is a shortage of food for larger walleye. Last fall’s assessment showed that larger walleye were thinner than average.

      Mille Lacs’ hot bite also reflects the findings of studies done in many other fisheries that show catchability actually increases when fish population drops. In Mille Lacs, walleye congregate in preferred spots rather than disperse evenly throughout the lake. Fewer fish in the lake means there is more room in the preferred spots for fish to gather, creating a situation where a larger percentage of the population is in position to be caught rather than gathering in a less preferred but less fished area.

      More information about Mille Lacs Lake, the regulation adjustments and management of the fishery is available on the DNR page at www.mndnr.gov/millelacslake.

      New solutions are being sought to improve and sustain a healthy walleye fishery
      The DNR announced in June that a new external review team of scientists will take a fresh look at Mille Lacs Lake’s walleye fishery, using all of the best science available to gain a better understanding of the lake. This new review, led by walleye expert Dr. Chris Vandergoot of the U.S. Geological Survey, will provide additional recommendations to improve fisheries management of the lake, and contribute to a long-term solution to improving and sustaining a healthy walleye fishery for future generations. The group’s report is expected in time to help guide and inform fisheries management decisions for the 2018 season.

      DNR encourages Minnesotans to fish for other abundant species on Mille Lacs Lake
      As today’s walleye fishing regulation changes were announced, the DNR encouraged all Minnesotans to visit Mille Lacs Lake to fish the other abundant species that the lake has to offer. Mille Lacs Lake’s other opportunities for top-notch fishing will not be affected by the regulation adjustment.

      Bassmaster Magazine named Mille Lacs the nation’s best bass lake in June and will send 50 of the country’s best anglers to the lake In September for its Angler of the Year tournament. Northern pike abound in Mille Lacs, along with muskellunge. In early July, a woman from southern Minnesota caught and released in Mille Lacs what may have been Minnesota’s largest-ever muskellunge.

      To learn more about Mille Lacs Lake and its many great fishing opportunities, visit the DNR page. To plan visit to the Mille Lacs area, visit the Mille Lacs Area Tourism Council page.

      ###

      Mille Lacs Lake Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for summer 2017
      Q: What is happening with the walleye season this summer on Mille Lacs Lake?

      A: The closure that began July 8 and was set to end July 28 is being extended by two weeks. That means walleye fishing will reopen at 6:01 a.m. on Aug. 11 for catch-and-release only through Labor Day. A night fishing closure also will remain in place from 10 p.m. to 6 a.m. through Nov. 30.

      Q: How does this affect fishing for other species?

      A: Fishing regulations for other species such as smallmouth bass, muskie and northern pike remain the same. During the night closure, there is an exception for muskie and northern pike anglers using artificial lures and sucker minnows longer than 8 inches.

      Q: Why did the DNR extend the closure?

      A: While the DNR wants to allow as much walleye fishing on Mille Lacs as possible, the state is also required to abide by cooperative agreements made with eight American Indian Chippewa bands. The two weeks of additional closure allows the state to abide by a harvest quota set earlier this year with the bands.

      The DNR and the bands agreed to harvest quotas of 44,800 pounds for state anglers and 19,200 pounds for tribal fishing. They also agreed that up to 75,000 pounds of walleye could be sustainably harvested from the lake from Dec. 1, 2016 to Nov. 30, 2017 in order to conserve the population

      That agreement allows the state to use a built-in buffer – the 11,000 pounds difference between the conservation cap of 75,000 pounds and the combined harvest quota of 64,000 pounds – in an attempt to allow catch-and-release walleye fishing through Labor Day, following the mid-summer closure.

      The latest creel survey data shows that state anglers reached their quota of 44,800 pounds of walleye caught from Mille Lacs in early July. Even though state anglers already have caught their quota of fish, the DNR is dipping into the allowed conservation reserve in order to reopen the season on Aug. 11.

      Q: Why has the walleye population in Mille Lacs declined? What is the DNR doing in the long-term to try to conserve the population?

      A: The vast majority of walleye that hatch do not survive to their third autumn in the lake. Walleye numbers have declined to the point that it has become important to protect spawning-sized walleye, particularly the class of walleye that hatched in 2013. It is important to protect the large 2013 year class to replenish aging spawning stock.  Most males from the 2013 class are now mature, but females will not start to contribute in large numbers until next spring. The state is committed to conserving the population of walleyes born in 2013 to improve and rebuild a sustainable population for the future.

      Q: Why do we count hooking mortality during a closed walleye season?

      A: The amount that state anglers can kill (as spelled out in state-bands agreements) also must include fish that die as a result of hooking mortality, the fish that die after being caught and then released back into the water. During the closure, some anglers still catch walleye incidentally and some of those fish die after being released. Under the state-band agreements, those dead fish must be calculated and counted against the state’s allocation.

      Q: How did this cooperative management between the state and the bands of Mille Lacs Lake come to be?   

      A: Recall that in 1999, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld lower-court decisions that allowed the Mille Lacs band and seven other Chippewa bands to exercise off-reservation fishing and hunting rights. The lower federal court also set up guidelines, known as stipulations and protocols, for both sides to follow. These stipulations and protocols provide a framework for how the bands and the state must work cooperatively to manage shared natural resources, including Mille Lacs fish.  In their agreements, the DNR and the bands are required to annually establish the number of walleye that can safely be harvested from Mille Lacs while ensuring sufficient remaining walleye in the lake for a healthy fishery.

      Q: If the walleye population is in decline, why are anglers catching so many?

      A: Fish are biting for two reasons. First, there is a shortage of food for larger walleye. Last fall’s assessment showed that larger walleye were thinner than average. Second, studies in many fisheries show that catchability actually increases when fish population decline.

      In Mille Lacs, walleye congregate in preferred spots rather than disperse evenly throughout the lake. Fewer fish in the lake means there’s more room in the preferred spots for fish to gather, and anglers find these spots where they can catch a larger portion of fish. Finally, while the walleye population has decreased considerably (by half or more), the amount of fishing pressure has declined by a lot more. This means that there are more walleye per angler fishing Mille Lacs today.

      Q: How is the DNR using science and research to help the walleye population?

      A: Mille Lacs Lake is the most studied lake in Minnesota. It is also a complex and changing system. The agency conducts a large number of surveys on the lake annually. These surveys include assessing the abundance of young walleye; setting 52 nets to assess adult abundance; using fine-mesh nets each summer to determine abundance of food (prey fish) for walleye; and using interviews with anglers around the lake (called creel surveys) to estimate the number of fish anglers are catching. The DNR also periodically tags walleye and other species to provide actual population estimates. We are tagging bass this year in cooperation with angling groups, and will be tagging walleye in 2018 and 2019 when the 2013 year class will be reaching full maturity.

      Q: What is the purpose of the external review the DNR has initiated?

      A: The DNR has asked Dr. Chris Vandergoot to lead an independent review of the DNR’s scientific approaches to manage Mille Lacs Lake. Vandergoot is a key member of the international team that co-manages a very significant walleye fishery in Lake Erie. He works for the U.S. Geological Survey in the Sandusky Lake Erie Biological station in Ohio. His review report will be available to the public in early 2018 and will help inform fisheries management decisions for the 2018 season.

      Q: What does the future look like for Mille Lacs walleye?

      A: It is unlikely that Mille Lacs walleye production will return to the levels that state anglers enjoyed over 20 years ago.  The ecosystem of Mille Lacs is going through extreme change, starting with increased water clarity in the mid-1990s, to impacts today from aquatic invasive species such as spiny water flea and zebra mussels. Longer growing seasons are also helping some species such as smallmouth bass but may be hurting others. While walleye will still be abundant, the future fishery will be more diverse, offering angling opportunities for a greater variety of fish.

      ###
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