Guests - If You want access to member only forums on HSO. You will gain access only when you sign-in or Sign-Up on HotSpotOutdoors.

It's easy - LOOK UPPER right menu.

Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Ebiz

Valleyfair Beating

135 posts in this topic

I’m sure by now most of you have heard about the 4th of July beating that took place at Valleyfair when a father tried to intervene when a man inappropriately touched his 12 year old daughter. It’s a very disturbing story and I find myself contemplating what I would have done if that had been me or even if I would have been in the crowd.

Reading other message boards and opinions the first thing that comes out is what if this father or anyone around would have had a concealed carry permit. Of course right away some people chime in with “I would have shot the scum for doing that to my daughter” but the reality is you can’t just open fire on someone in a situation like this.

What do you do if you are the father? In this case the story so far is that he yelled at them for what they did/were doing (doesn’t sound like he initiated the physical altercation) and as a result these guys called their friends on the phone and it turned into an 8 on 1 beating. I’m sure he tried to defend himself but probably didn’t stand much of a chance. Even if he did get physical with the first guy and he didn’t have any friends with him can you imagine the fallout and media coverage as a guy at Valleyfair beats up a young man for supposedly touching his daughter. It would turn into a he said – she said ordeal and the young man would wind up claiming he accidentally ran into the girl and this overprotective father assaulted him. Bring on the lawyers and the ACLU.

Would you have jumped in and try to help if you were in the crowd? The only thing I ask is that before responding with a knee jerk “of course I would” play through this event in your mind. You have a group of 8 hardcore thugs savagely attacking someone, you’re there with your family – do you leave your family and put yourself in harms way? You’re basically entering an 8 on 1 fight yourself as the other guy is already on the ground. The story does mention that one other man was punched in the face, don’t know if he was attempting to stop one of these guys. I would like to think I would jump in to do what I could, I really do hate the “look the other way if it doesn’t affect me attitude” that seems so prevalent these days. However in reflecting on it I keep coming up with other questions:

1. Given what’s already happening to the guy is it responsible of me as a father there with my family to risk winding up beaten half to death?

2. Would it be smarter to try and get security/police involved as soon as possible?

3. In this day and age of lawsuits and personal rights violations do you run the risk of being sued yourself? Probably an even greater risk of litigation if you were to grab something to use as a weapon.

Thoughts? My initial reaction, as I’m sure it was for most people, was outrage. Since then I’m just finding myself questioning how I would handle a situation like this if I ever found myself in the middle or a witness to. Seems like senseless stories like this are more and more common. Just heard about a bunch of kids beating up a bus driver in St Paul last night

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pepper spray. Empty it on him. I don't care if I go to jail, if someone touches my child in that manner - I'll take my chances with a jury.

And a knee in the nuts for good measure. Then RUN, don't walk, to the security office/police with my family.

I've given Pepper spray to my daughter and will be getting one for my son as well. I'm thinking about carrying one of those collapsable batons. Hey, that guy didn't have a chance, but maybe it would even the odds a bit.

I remember reading 20 years ago that there would come a time when we saw a group of youth and would be afraid. That day has come. If these groups come at you, you will be in a world of hurt - so I'm going make it hurt. Gangs and terrorists - you can't just hide from them any more. (in my opinion...)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Both of them very sick situations.

You pose some very good questions. Given the state of the laws in this country, the best response is what some people obviously did: contact the authorities.

I would definitely like to be the sentencing judge on this one. Castration seems like a good start.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's the artice in case anyone hasn't heard about it:

Dad who shielded daughter in attack at Valleyfair recovering, wife says

Police continue to investigate brutal assault; more charges against the ambushing group are possible.

Star Tribune

Last update: July 16, 2008 - 10:09 AM

A woman whose husband was severely beaten trying to protect his daughter from being molested as the family left Valleyfair said Tuesday they remain traumatized and are still healing from bruises and injuries.

Eight young men are accused of taking turns stomping on and kicking the head of the 41-year-old man, who was knocked unconscious as his wife and three daughters tried to help him. Prosecutors say more serious charges could be brought against the men if the man's injuries are permanent.

"He is hanging in there," said his wife, who asked that the family not be identified out of fear for their safety. She didn't recognize their attackers: "I never seen them a day before in my life."

Shakopee police said serious felony assaults are unusual at the amusement park, which normally has a handful of misdemeanor assaults each summer. The park said Tuesday that 22 security guards were on duty the evening of the assault, July 4, when the fair closed at midnight, and that safety is a priority.

Police arrested seven of the suspects in the Valleyfair parking lot that night and the eighth escaped. Police did not have a good description of that suspect but would like help finding him.

Six men and a 14-year-old boy were charged July 8 with third-degree felony assault. More serious charges, and possibly a sex assault charge, may be filed after police finish their investigation, Scott County Attorney Patrick Ciliberto said Tuesday.

"This type of violence cannot be accepted in our community," he said. "We had a family at the fair enjoying the holiday. Behavior like this is personal to our community."

Ciliberto said Valleyfair has had "no assault of this magnitude" since he took office in 2002. He said the father was taken to Ridges Hospital in Burnsville for a fractured eye socket bone and other injuries. His office was told Monday that doctors were waiting for the man's swelling to subside before checking for permanent injuries, which could justify more serious charges.

The couple was nearing the exit gate with their three daughters at about midnight on July 4, when two young men approached and slapped the youngest girl, about 12, on her buttocks. Her father yelled at the men, one of whom pulled out a cell phone and called for others to join in on the assault.

The wife said she and her daughters tried to protect her husband, and are still recovering from being punched. Her husband has been home from the hospital for a week .

She said she couldn't say more for fear of hurting the prosecution's case.

The assault "was an isolated incident. This has not happened before," said Valleyfair spokeswoman Rachel Onken. "We are a very safe park." She said the guards handled the incident as they were trained and no immediate security changes are planned.

Shakopee Police Capt. Jeff Tate said Valleyfair has "a skirmish once in a while. We usually don't see anything escalate like this." He said park security officers do a good job and that this is the only felony assault this year. He said a domestic assault occurred in the Valleyfair parking lot in May and two juveniles were charged in June with disorderly conduct and misdemeanor assault.

One of the suspects, Darris D. Evans, allegedly punched a man in the face as the group left the unconscious father. Evans, 20, of Brooklyn Park, is charged with a misdemeanor assault for that offense, Tate said.

Besides Evans, five other men and an unnamed juvenile were charged with third-degree felony assault. The five are Derry D. Evans, 19, Minneapolis; Devondre Evans-Lewis, 18, of Columbia Heights; Terry L. Arnold, 22, Brooklyn Park; Andrew D. Shannon, 19, of Minneapolis, and Anthony C. Gildersleeve, 20, Edina.

Bail was set at $40,000 to $60,000 each and all the suspects posted bail bonds, a jail official said.

A check of state records show that two of the suspects have prior felony charges. Arnold and Evans-Lewis were arrested in an Eagan prostitution sting and charged in April with promoting prostitution in Dakota County. Arnold pleaded guilty in May. Arnold also was convicted of two misdemeanor assaults in 2005 and 2006.

Gildersleeve was convicted in March 2008 of carrying a pistol without a permit in a public place, a misdemeanor. Derry Evans was convicted of escaping from custody in January 2008. He was also convicted in May 2008 of disorderly conduct, a gross misdemeanor.

Staff writer Abby Simons contributed to this report. Jim Adams • 612-673-7658

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hadn't heard anything about it (I rarely watch news)

That should make almost anyone feel a little uncomfortable inside... No idea what the situation really was or how it went down but I have to wonder what security at valley fair is like? Haven't been there in well over 10 years so I do not know but it surprises me that a place containing that many dangerous rides and such wouldn't have a lot of first responder/security personnel. Wonder if they are going to be found liable for any of this?

I support concealed carry. Criminals already have guns and don't follow laws.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's how it it works, if I see a scum bag attempting to or causing any harm to any child, I'll stop him or her and make sure they don't move till 5-O gets there, if that means softening up their position, that's what I would do.

I you touch a kid in my family pray they get you before I do, nothing means more to me than them, I'll take my chances getting sued by a quadriplegic pedophile.

You just don't mess with kids unless you got a death wish, bottom line.

And I'm an extremely non violent person.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everybody has a cell phone, and everyone I've ever seen had the number 911 on it. I think as soon as he saw the friends coming he should have called it.

I can't say what I would have done since I wasn't there. I too have a 12 year old daughter and where thinking of spending a day at VF. I'm not so sure now. It's really such a sad deal that it has come to this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I find it interesting Valley Fair is covering there own buts and trying to say how safe there park is. I didnt notice any concerns for the family mentioned.

As for stepping in to help that is a judgment call that one has to make for ones self, many variables come into play.

Keep in mind a mob mentality can be hard to defuse. Though one person may not be able to stop a mob of 8 but 3 or 4 adults stepping in may stop it. So ask yourself will you be one of those 3 or 4 who step in or be an on looker waiting for others to step in.

I guess if I were attacked I would ask why didnt anybody help?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aside from the horrible beating. Take a look at all the police blotter on VF in the Shakopee News sometime. The crime that goes on there is undeniable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have question the intelligence of releasing on bail those with prior records and especially those that have been escaped before.

Bob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quote:
What do you do if you are the father? In this case the story so far is that he yelled at them for what they did/were doing (doesn’t sound like he initiated the physical altercation) and as a result these guys called their friends on the phone and it turned into an 8 on 1 beating.

If it would have been my daughter, he would not have had a chance to get his freakin phone open. Situation like that I probably wouldn't said a whole lot before I grabbed him. It have taken a crowd of people to pull me off him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure if I'll ever go back to VF w/ my kids. Went in June and saw/heard a lot of things that I'm not too interested in having my kids around. They want to go and ride the rides to have fun. I wasn't having fun listening to 15 year olds drop the f bomb, budge in line and act as if there was no problem with either. I told one kid that the back of the line is over there and he didn't even flinch. Just kept hanging with his "pack". Not much of a family place anymore. My kids love it, but I'm not overly comfortable taking them there anymore, and then this. This should be a PR nightmare for VF.

Glad to see the Strib published the faces of the young lads who have been charged. I hope the judge puts them away for a long time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't been able to confirm but I've read that Valley Fair has a "Firearms not allowed" policy - does this prohibit CC permit holders from carrying?

I also question the granting of bail to these guys given their prior records.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, it does prohibit one from conceal and carry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Problem is this is no differnt than what has ben going on for years at Mall of America. Punks run in packs and They rule. If you get a gang up to beat them down they are just kids and you are the ones who are wrong. Laws are not tough on kids. Even Punks. Somethings got to change but until every Civil liberty freek has this happen to someone they are close too. The kids cannot be blamed or unfairly treated. Puke. Nothing is getting fixed at MOA so now comes the spread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I have learned in my life is some get beat and others do the beating. But almost a 100% of the time a domestic situation is avoidable from both sides with men and women. Then there are others who talk a good fight when things are said, but do not realize what they are getting into and make the wrong decisions, then find out the hard way.

I do not know what transpired in this situation and it would be hard to make a “post” judgment call at this point.

I do not have daughters, only boys. I will add I have a very attractive wife. I have found my self in a situation at the local movie theater a couple years back that could have ended up like this. I how ever took my pride and stuck it between my legs for my families sake. I looked at my boys and figured this was not a fight I was going to further. In the end, a quick run to the car, a little damaged pride, but my family was safe and things went on as normal. Plus, I had thoughts a going to jail in my mind. I do not want to go to jail. It could happen no matter how "good" your intentions are.

Now, if my family is safe I would be one to help out a person who is way out numbered, even if I do not know them (maybe the liberal in me coming out). It would be very hard for me to just stand by and watch some one get beat by a group of people looking like they are having fun. I did such a thing about 7 years ago at a party. I got a fractured scull (from my nostril to my eye socket) from a very big Marine. I can still feel it when I humm. The bad part was I did not stop and still was going when the police arrived. Total nother story. Fact is if my family had been their (at my age of 30 now), my family would the first thing on my mind.

Now, throw guns in the situation, from the father side or the other groups side, someone would have been dead. With 8 guys, a gun shot,father having permite and a gun, it could have been the father easy.

If you pull the trigger, your are a killer, end of story (unless they live). Self defense or not , in your mind you will be a murder. If you think you would never think that, that is normal middle class American talk/thought. If you actually think that after you pull the trigger, your screwed up.

Good luck!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great post shack!

I agree that if guns were involved in this situation it would have been a lot worse. People would have died without question and that is something noone should ever want regardless of how bad these kids were acting. If it was me as the father in that situation I would have told the young men politely to not treat girls/women like that. Then I would have taken my family and left.

I'm really concerned that a lot of you have said that carrying a gun is the answer to situations like this. I'm sorry but I have to disagree with that and I truly believe guns make all situations worse. If you pull a gun out with intention of scaring away a criminal, what makes you think they don't have a gun themselves. Now shots will be fired and there will be funerals to attend.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Self defense or not , in your mind you will be a murder"er

Umm, no I would not think that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ray,

Shoot someone, have them die and let us know how it goes.

I hope it is more than just a sexual harassment issue that has escalated that causes you to pull the trigger.

Good luck and this is all I have to say about this! smile

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I couldn't disagree more. this all depends on your moral fiber and character. A gun would have settled this instantly with out ever being fired, as it does every day in this country only you never hear about it.

when this fight was one on one was the real time to end this but in this sitsutation an 8 on 1 would have been the time to pull out a weapon and defuse! not escalte the sitsutation just as the police do every day.

I have a 13 year old daughter and she is stunning. not her fault. it is my duty as a fatber to do all I can to make sure that she has a chance to get away in this sort of sitsuation.

let every creep know that I will go to the end to make sure that my family is safe and your poor judgement and character are on trial the instant you assult them and I will be the judge. We don't have to tolerate this sort of thing and I could not be more proud of this man.

there is a time to run but when you can't be ready to fight.

I would rather end up in the hospital or jail for a night than to have my daughter permenatly scared for life.

What would it be like to live with thinking I may have been able to do something if I could not get myself and them away from harm.

Most of the time it's what we do, not what we think that shows our true character. But then again I'm the type that will forgive but I will never forget.

Mine won't be the popular belief and thet's just fine with me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ask some of our returning vets who have killed or seen a killing if it didn't effect them the rest of their lives, and they are supposed to be trained to kill. Our the police officer who has to take a life in the line of duty, many are not able to return to thier line of work. Yes, it is killing, either in self defense or not. I don't know what I would have done as a father and am very glad that I did not have to face the situation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep, i guarantee you 3 shots fired straight in the air and these low lifes are running for the parking lot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't have a problem with any of these "terrorists" dying. This is exactly what is wrong with this country...too many bleeding hearts. Grow a set and man up! If I seen this happening I would jump in and help without question. Waiting for the police to show up might not cut it. Good people need to start helping each other out. Were so divided in this country that I think we need to split the country in half. We'll all know what side we want to be on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe it because of my past and the respect I have for guns and people dieing (war vets are a major reason for my views), but I just could not add up a possible valid reason for a gun being discharged during this situation. Again, I was not their.

All I am saying (no matter how wrong things are), we as pride toting Americans find our selves in these situations, because of our “pride“. Anyone in my book (with their family) that lets pride get the best of them, well, gets what they deserve. In this case a beating in front of their loved ones frown . It may be all in pride in what was done, a hospital stay for what they done or a trip to jail while they figure things out and then what happens after that of people where shot.

Anyone one with a permit (I hope to God) would have taken another way out, not to find him/her self in this situation. If not, god help the pistol toting Americans. We will loose the privilege to carry guns. If I shot off a couple rounds to detour a group in Valley Fair, I would have to do some fast talking if I had a permit or go to jail (I would hope). Most likey gone to jail for discharging my firearm in a public place.

I own hand guns. I have respect for hand guns. I have never pulled the trigger (no pun intended) to get the permit, because I have never wanted to have to carry one. I ain’t a cop, I am not in the army and I do not want to have the burden of killing someone on my mind, because I pulled the trigger. As it is a right to do so. Maybe one day, when gas gets to about $10.00 a gallon.

I just hope with my kids going to Valley fair, a fight is the only thing and not gun shots. frown

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0



  • Posts

    • Thanks guys!   Any chance you have a brand, model or picture of these? I think I get what you are saying just haven't seen them before.
    • Sent you a long-winded PM... you been out on Lac qui Parle at all?
    • What I have ben enjoying is watching the fourth line on the ice and sometimes they are the best line out there. Playing late in games and giving the top two lines a rest may not seem like a  big deal now but come crunch time that rest just might make the difference. I picked the right time to put the cable back in I think I have only missed one Wild game this season plus I am watching a lot of umd hockey!  As for Sutter I think he is having a banner year, great plus/minus rating. he is scoring a few goals which is another plus and in the Chicago game when he traded sides of the ice with his d partner he pretty much shutdown a tiring Kane. Best time to watch Wild hockey is halfway through the game, they seem to find another level to play at.
    • 23 IN THE BOAT HERE ON HIDDEN BAY again today. Sunshine Ray’s extended forecast is calling for rising temps and sunshine every other day. This would give us a warm melt for the snow that has gathered on roofs and the Lodge should get busy. I can see a lot of fishermen out on the ice and more then a few will be taking off time from work to get out there. As a mater of fact I am at the Lodge this morning. Was feeling pretty good with lots of energy so I thought I would come in and do some ordering and touch base with some of our suppliers who make daytime deliveries.   First thing I noticed when the wife dropped me off was a couple of old lawn mowers outside. When I came in I found Tiny working on a small carburetor. I had to talk to him and I found out that somehow we, the Lodge have become a drop off spot for old, gently used lawn mowers. I then remembered the tongue in cheek commercial I had made a few weeks ago. Looks like someone was listening and dumped their junk on us. Tiny did say he thinks he can take the parts from the two and get one running. The Lodge needs a push mower so maybe this will work out afterwards. Tiny also mentioned that someone dropped off a case of thirty weight oil, Gus took that he said.   Luge run is up and running, with all the snow we received last week and the use of Nytelyter front end loader a run was built. With a sunny day followed by a cloudy day we should be able to ice it down and it will last the rest of winter. Well Skinny and Hammering Hank will be doing that. I did get word from Ranger Rick that he had an accident yesterday and will be laid up a few days. He was out checking on the trails at Samantha Lake when he slid the Ranger he was driving down a hill and hit a tree. He cracked the windshield with his head and hit the tree with his hip or part of the Ranger. He is suppose to go see Dock Berrium today but is dragging his feet and everything else trying to get out of bed. The pine tree is still down on Trappers Trail but a detour has been put in around it. Ranger Rick was headed to the tree and the chain saw and other stuff might have been part of the balance problem with the Ranger.   Christmas tree drive is done here at the Lodge. Not as many trees collected as last year but they have all been taken to the Resort to be disposed of. Actually they will be tied in bundles, weighted down and dropped into the bay come spring melt out. Elmer and DOC and Vic will do it and will keep their new crappie spots a secret. Of course if you want to find out where they are all you need do is take a ride in Vic’s mail boat and check the seats. He writes down all his good fishing spots in pencil on his wood bench seats because he does not know how to read them on his handheld GPS unit. The idea of drifting over some of the brush piles sounds like a good idea about now.   Forty may happen on Thursday which is a lot better then minus 20 I will have a day spent at the hospital doing tests. Last years tests are now all bench marks and I have to repeat them now a year latter to see how much damage has been done. Hoping I come out pretty good but I have a lot of work to do before fishing season comes this year. Launching a boat by myself may not be something I can do till late in the season but I sure would like to ride along with Chuck come June. So from a cloudy day here at the Lodge at Lake Iwanttobethere
    • They make a rail that when it slides closed it drops about 1/4". I have these and they are nice for driving down the road but my 3 and 5 year olds can't open them up!   For the doors, I used an rv type style clip. To open you have to push in and then they pop open.
    • I can't imagine a worse job on earth than trying to wrangle a house full of 2-4 year olds with a baby or 2 thrown in for an added challenge...but thankfully someone wants to do it.   Around here the absolute lowest I've seen at an in home day care was $140/week and that was for any age, price didn't change based on age.  $175 is pretty common (again no price change for different ages, my 3 year old and 8 month old cost the same) but have seen it up as high as $225 and all of them were basically at capacity. When you get into day care centers they you can be looking at $300-400/week and the price does go up for infants and babies.    It seems a lot of people get into doing day care when they have their own kids.  They stay home with them to save daycare costs and then bring in other kids to bring in some income and then it goes from there.  Ends up being a pretty decent solution as long as the other person can find a job that provides the benefits. 
      If she does do in home day care just make sure to keep that in mind when buying a new house.  A friends wife does daycare out of their house and he hated their old house because the house layout required daycare to essentially be in the middle of their main living area so he'd come home from work and be in the middle of day care trying to relax with a beer. They ended up moving so that they could get a house that had a good basement set up for a daycare so they could more or less contain it to one area and not let it infiltrate the rest of the house.    
    • Tons of fish on Mille Lacs. LOL right. Must had a lot of people with u for a ton on Mille Lacs.    
    • Up here its not that much but at a home daycare you are still looking at 120 for a toddler 150 for an infant... This way we can save 1700 bucks a month! plus make a few dollars on top.. She was a teacher in a daycare while attending school.. She has a knack for a bunch of kids.. Me not so much. Thanks for the advice nofish!
    • It's that time of year again. Bassmaster Fantasy fishing started up today. I created a group again named HSO Bass. Password: mnbass Feel free to join. 
  • Our Sponsors