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croixflats

GPS how close do you get to the origanal way point

26 posts in this topic

I'm not up to speed on the GPS. Didnt it use to be the gps would only get you close to where you wanted to go. I was wondering if they changed that now and how close you realy get to that origanal way point.

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between 12 and 30 feet most of the time. most brands tell you what the accuracy is at any given time.

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My lowrance units say I am within 11 feet of the original target. Close enough in my book.

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Thanks for the info 11 ft to 30 ft is close enough. For awhile there I think the accuracy was regulated. That was a while ago.

Even with a marker buoy it is hard to get that boat on the same spot sometimes. 11ft prety darn good

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The gov't regulates GPS so they are not as accurate. Just makes em uneasy that the public can get to within a foot or two of a waypoint!

If you pay a few grand you can get a subscription that'll get you within a meter, other than that 12-15 feet is dam good.

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GPS accuracy is a very complicated issue. Much of it depends on the current satelite coverage and the quality and age of your unit. Generally you can expect your current position to be within a few meters, but that usually doesn't matter for us fisherman. Often times we use the GPS to mark spots (way points) so that we can return to them later. This is where it gets really strange. All GPS errors can "double up" if you store a position, then attempt to relocate it later with GPS. This is because the error when a location is marked can add to GPS errors while re-locating the mark. Let's say you mark that sunken log on a particular structure. Chances are there was a small error when you pushed the waypoint button. Now, you come back the next day and try to find it using the gps. You might be 100 feet or more from it because of the variables causing today's inaccuracies. Seldom will you ever be able to exactly repeat a location, but usually you get close enough. When I mark a waypoint, I always note the depth that I am at. That way I can usually find my spot with pretty good accuracy. especially on drop offs.

I fish a pretty good sized lake and many of my spots are out in the middle of "no-where". GPS is a must for returning to the hot spots.

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Good post Maverick. Many people think their GPS is dead-on.

You will find your GPS is also more accurate at certain times then others.

Another issue is if you are using a hand held unit, like a H2Oc with a Navionics chip, you can only zoom in to 1/8 mile. Not very detailed at that range.

Still, I never fish with out one any more. Second best electronic tool to have in the boat besides the locator.

- Wish

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Thanks Wish,

A fun thing you can try with a hand held is to go to the middle of your yard that is pretty much unobstructed to the sky. Set down a pail or something that will not move. While sitting on the pail punch in a waypoint. Now wait an hour or two and go back to the area. Walk with you GPS until it shows the exact longitude and latitude that your waypoint indicates. Note how far from the pail you are and that will start to give you an idea of the accuracy. Do it a number of times and you will see that different times of the day and other things that effect the view to the sky will impact the accuracy. You could even plot it out on graph paper, but now we are getting a little obsessed with the whole thing.

I agree, I never fish without one either. Recently my Lowrance 3500c stopped working. I immediately mounted my hand held in the boat until I could get the Lowarance replaced.

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I have found that having 2 gps plotters with my waypoints marked is very accurate.Puts me right on top of a few narrow sand bars every time.

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I've used mine aginst others geocaching,Mine is a 1995 model always within 10 ft or less.When I get coords from someone I get right on spot.My full zoom is 100 ft,A new h2o is 1/8 mile??? 660ft?? thats a reason to keep my Magellan Meridian.

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It may only allow you to zoom down so far, but the GPS will show your distance in feet from the waypoint so the zoom factor really isn't an issue.

Using the digital readout is the best way to get right back to your mark, since trying to put a fat cursor on a fat waypoint icon is hardly ideal.

Saying that you're within 10' isn't quite accurate. My H2O will say the same thing when I'm approaching a waypoint, but with the GPS error you're actually still 15' or more from that mark in any given direction. I'm guessing that a circa 1995 model doesn't have WAAS, so it's pretty safe to say it's expected position error is much greater than that. My first GPS unit was slightly newer than that and was lucky if it was 40' on the best days. I suppose that it is possible that the error of the geocache waypoint may have canceled the error of the hand held and just got lucky.

We have a Trimble unit at work that will go sub-meter accuracy, but I can't find the slot to load my Lakemaster chip. grin

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It would appear that my Garmin handheld with WAAS enabled certainly outperforms the H2O when it comes to accuracy and detail. First, it is quite common for my level of accuracy to be within 6 to 7 feet. I have experienced as good as 5 feet but that has proven to be rare. As far as zoom, I can zoom to a 20 foot scale. Much higher resolution than 1/8th mile.

Bob

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My Garmin sure seems to be much more accurate than my H20c. The maps are better on the Lowrance, but that's about all.

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Interesting. Have you Garmin guys seen the new "Oregon" touch-screen units? Not sure how well they work with gloves, probably as good as the Lowrance with the small buttons. smile

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I'll tell you what I did. I marked a spot with my GPS and threw out a marker bouy and then I went several miles away and followed my GPS "pointer" back to the waypoint. I did not look up to see where I was at I just followed the "pointer" and when it said I was there I looked up and the bouy was right next to the boat. I was up to Lake Vermillion several weeks ago (stayed in Pikes Bay) and there was an area about 8 miles away that I wanted to fish. I took a map and loaded 5 or 6 waypoints into my GPS and just follwed it to where I wanted to fish. It worked really slick and believe me I am no computer wizard. I have a Garmin 76 that is about 5 years old and I like it.

I talked to a fellow who had a GPS built into his fish finder and his even showed where the rock hazards were. I am going to upgrade someday and it will definately be a similiar unit.

Good Fishing!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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My Magellan is WAAS enabled and geocaching is using the unit to pinpoint objects anywhere someone posts a object hidden.So I'm going by coords off a post online, enter into my unit and start,only time I lose my focus point is in heavy treed areas,On the water I'm most always on spot and 10 ft. on open water is easy.Never really counted but on water I believe I'm receiving 6-8 sats.+ WAAS horizon reception

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So you must have a 2005 model, not a 1995 model? I believe WAAS didn't come online until the past 1/2 dozen years or so.

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Please note that my post says "with the Navionics chip" it only zooms to 1/8 mile. It is much closer with a Lakemaster chip.

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You can already have that capability on Vermillion, Capt. Check out Garmin's HSOforum and look for their MNLakemaster software. Vermillion is contoured to navigational quality in 3' increments along with I believe over 60 of Minnesota's most popular lakes.

Bob

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Limit its 1995. I downloaded one upgrade the only one provided Since and it was WAAS back then I believe.Look it up on Magellan site.Its under archived units,At the time it was the top of the line unit,it went obsolete 2 yrs later.Its a Magellan (MerridianGPS)

Out this morn I received 10 sats. and WAAS 27 & ???

If ya go to the site you'll see this model was discontinued in 1995

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Be careful when using Estimated Position Error (EPE) values listed on GPS units to determine how far "off" you might be from any location.

EPE can be calculated a number of ways, and depending on the algorithm used, you may be more than 2X the listed value "off." Positional error is determined using Horizontal Dillution of Precision (HDOP), a measure of the visible satelitte's geometric accuracy, and User Range Error (URE), which is a catch-all group of errors from clock timing to atmospheric irregularities. To the best of my knowledge, URE is estimated average from ALL GPS satellites (24+) orbiting the earth, NOT ONLY THE ONES YOUR GPS IS UTILIZING.

In other words, the 6-10 satellites in your viewing area may be exhibiting quite a bit more OR less URE than the total satellite average, throwing off your values.

Take home message - The lower the number the better......kind of? smile

Joel

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Isn't that where WAAS comes into play? It time-corrects for the delay in receiving the GPS satellite signals.

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To answer the original post. Today's GPS units will get you within 3 meters. When in times of war the military scrambles the signal to make the GPS less accurate. (A prior post kinda elluded to this). However, there is a seperate antenna one can purchase that unscrambes this signal but it's way to expensive for the average Joe and frankly not worth it.

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    • Lots of different fish to chase in that lake. Just switch up your target fish and try something different.


    • Minnesota DNR News
      For Immediate Release:
      July 21, 2017
      In This Issue

      Conserving Mille Lacs walleye population requires regulation changes

      Mille Lacs Lake Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for summer 2017

      Conserving Mille Lacs walleye population requires regulation changes

      Walleye fishing on Mille Lacs Lake will remain closed until Aug. 11 to protect the walleye fishery, and ensure its long-term health and sustainability into the future

      To extend the walleye fishing season through Labor Day, the state will allow for an additional 11,000 pounds of walleye harvest on Mille Lacs 

      New solutions are being sought to rebuild and sustain a healthy Mille Lacs walleye fishery

      New fisheries data collected by the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources show the total safe harvest allocation for walleyes on Mille Lacs Lake (44,800 pounds) has already been exceeded this season. To protect the fishery and ensure the long-term sustainability of Mille Lacs Lake’s walleye population, the DNR announced today that walleye fishing will remain closed until Friday, Aug. 11.

      In order to extend the walleye fishing season through Labor Day, the state will allow for an additional 11,000 pounds of walleye harvest. Catch-and-release walleye fishing will run from Friday, Aug. 11, through Monday, Sept. 4, for the Labor Day weekend. Walleye fishing will then be closed from Tuesday, Sept. 5, through Thursday, Nov. 30.

      As these regulation changes were announced, Minnesota DNR Commissioner Tom Landwehr reiterated the state’s commitment to rebuilding and sustaining a healthy walleye fishery in Mille Lacs Lake.

      “Improving the walleye population in Mille Lacs is a top priority for the DNR,” Landwehr said. “We deeply regret the hardships these new regulations will cause for anglers and business owners. But they are essential to protect and enhance the future of walleye fishing in the lake for future generations. We will continue doing everything we can to understand the challenges facing the walleye fishery, and take whatever actions we can to resolve this very difficult situation.”

      Landwehr and DNR fisheries chief Don Pereira noted that allowing for additional catch-and-release fishing in August is essential for area anglers, businesses, and Mille Lacs area communities. The decision to allow for this additional harvest was made with input from the Mille Lacs Fisheries Advisory Committee.

      “We want to allow as much walleye fishing on Mille Lacs as possible,” Pereira said. “So even though state anglers already have caught their quota of fish, the DNR will dip into the allowed conservation overage to reopen the season on Aug. 11.”

      Through the closure, anglers on Mille Lacs Lake may fish for all other species in the lake including bass, muskellunge and northern pike. When fishing for other species, only artificial baits and lures will be allowed in possession, except for anglers targeting northern pike or muskie, who may fish with sucker minnows longer than 8 inches.

      A prohibition on night fishing will remain in place from 10 p.m. to 6 a.m. through Nov. 30. However, anglers may fish for muskie and northern pike at night, but may only use artificial lures longer than 8 inches or sucker minnows longer than 8 inches. Bowfishing for rough fish also is allowed at night but possession of angling equipment is not allowed and only rough fish may be in possession.

      Understanding walleye fishing quotas on Mille Lacs this year, and why that quota was reached earlier than predicted
      The DNR and the Chippewa bands that cooperatively manage Mille Lacs Lake agreed this year to harvest quotas of 44,800 pounds for state anglers and 19,200 pounds for tribal fishing. They also agreed that up to 75,000 pounds of walleye could be harvested from the lake from Dec. 1, 2016 to Nov. 30, 2017.

      That agreement allows the state to use a built-in buffer – the 11,000 pounds difference between the 75,000 pounds conservation cap and the 64,000 pounds combined harvest quotas – in an attempt to allow catch-and-release walleye fishing through Labor Day, following the mid-summer closure. Bi-weekly creel surveys show that state anglers already have reached their quota.

      “The DNR is using its full allotment to maximize opportunities to fish for walleye on Mille Lacs without violating our agreement,” Pereira said. “The DNR, just like area businesses, would greatly prefer to not have fishing restrictions in place. But sustaining and stabilizing Mille Lacs’ walleye population is our primary obligation and public responsibility.”

      Continuing the walleye fishing closure will reduce the number of fish that die after being caught and released, a condition known as hooking mortality. The likelihood of fish suffering hooking mortality increases as water temperatures warm.

      High walleye catch rates on Mille Lacs have increased DNR fishing projections. A hot walleye bite attracted more anglers to the lake, resulting in angler effort that is about double what it was in 2016.

      “Cooler than normal temperatures kept hooking mortality rates low, but more anglers fished Mille Lacs, particularly catching walleye longer than 20 inches,” Pereira said. “That increased the poundage of fish caught and put us over our walleye quota.”

      According to the DNR, bigger fish are biting, in part, because there is a shortage of food for larger walleye. Last fall’s assessment showed that larger walleye were thinner than average.

      Mille Lacs’ hot bite also reflects the findings of studies done in many other fisheries that show catchability actually increases when fish population drops. In Mille Lacs, walleye congregate in preferred spots rather than disperse evenly throughout the lake. Fewer fish in the lake means there is more room in the preferred spots for fish to gather, creating a situation where a larger percentage of the population is in position to be caught rather than gathering in a less preferred but less fished area.

      More information about Mille Lacs Lake, the regulation adjustments and management of the fishery is available on the DNR page at www.mndnr.gov/millelacslake.

      New solutions are being sought to improve and sustain a healthy walleye fishery
      The DNR announced in June that a new external review team of scientists will take a fresh look at Mille Lacs Lake’s walleye fishery, using all of the best science available to gain a better understanding of the lake. This new review, led by walleye expert Dr. Chris Vandergoot of the U.S. Geological Survey, will provide additional recommendations to improve fisheries management of the lake, and contribute to a long-term solution to improving and sustaining a healthy walleye fishery for future generations. The group’s report is expected in time to help guide and inform fisheries management decisions for the 2018 season.

      DNR encourages Minnesotans to fish for other abundant species on Mille Lacs Lake
      As today’s walleye fishing regulation changes were announced, the DNR encouraged all Minnesotans to visit Mille Lacs Lake to fish the other abundant species that the lake has to offer. Mille Lacs Lake’s other opportunities for top-notch fishing will not be affected by the regulation adjustment.

      Bassmaster Magazine named Mille Lacs the nation’s best bass lake in June and will send 50 of the country’s best anglers to the lake In September for its Angler of the Year tournament. Northern pike abound in Mille Lacs, along with muskellunge. In early July, a woman from southern Minnesota caught and released in Mille Lacs what may have been Minnesota’s largest-ever muskellunge.

      To learn more about Mille Lacs Lake and its many great fishing opportunities, visit the DNR page. To plan visit to the Mille Lacs area, visit the Mille Lacs Area Tourism Council page.

      ###

      Mille Lacs Lake Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for summer 2017
      Q: What is happening with the walleye season this summer on Mille Lacs Lake?

      A: The closure that began July 8 and was set to end July 28 is being extended by two weeks. That means walleye fishing will reopen at 6:01 a.m. on Aug. 11 for catch-and-release only through Labor Day. A night fishing closure also will remain in place from 10 p.m. to 6 a.m. through Nov. 30.

      Q: How does this affect fishing for other species?

      A: Fishing regulations for other species such as smallmouth bass, muskie and northern pike remain the same. During the night closure, there is an exception for muskie and northern pike anglers using artificial lures and sucker minnows longer than 8 inches.

      Q: Why did the DNR extend the closure?

      A: While the DNR wants to allow as much walleye fishing on Mille Lacs as possible, the state is also required to abide by cooperative agreements made with eight American Indian Chippewa bands. The two weeks of additional closure allows the state to abide by a harvest quota set earlier this year with the bands.

      The DNR and the bands agreed to harvest quotas of 44,800 pounds for state anglers and 19,200 pounds for tribal fishing. They also agreed that up to 75,000 pounds of walleye could be sustainably harvested from the lake from Dec. 1, 2016 to Nov. 30, 2017 in order to conserve the population

      That agreement allows the state to use a built-in buffer – the 11,000 pounds difference between the conservation cap of 75,000 pounds and the combined harvest quota of 64,000 pounds – in an attempt to allow catch-and-release walleye fishing through Labor Day, following the mid-summer closure.

      The latest creel survey data shows that state anglers reached their quota of 44,800 pounds of walleye caught from Mille Lacs in early July. Even though state anglers already have caught their quota of fish, the DNR is dipping into the allowed conservation reserve in order to reopen the season on Aug. 11.

      Q: Why has the walleye population in Mille Lacs declined? What is the DNR doing in the long-term to try to conserve the population?

      A: The vast majority of walleye that hatch do not survive to their third autumn in the lake. Walleye numbers have declined to the point that it has become important to protect spawning-sized walleye, particularly the class of walleye that hatched in 2013. It is important to protect the large 2013 year class to replenish aging spawning stock.  Most males from the 2013 class are now mature, but females will not start to contribute in large numbers until next spring. The state is committed to conserving the population of walleyes born in 2013 to improve and rebuild a sustainable population for the future.

      Q: Why do we count hooking mortality during a closed walleye season?

      A: The amount that state anglers can kill (as spelled out in state-bands agreements) also must include fish that die as a result of hooking mortality, the fish that die after being caught and then released back into the water. During the closure, some anglers still catch walleye incidentally and some of those fish die after being released. Under the state-band agreements, those dead fish must be calculated and counted against the state’s allocation.

      Q: How did this cooperative management between the state and the bands of Mille Lacs Lake come to be?   

      A: Recall that in 1999, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld lower-court decisions that allowed the Mille Lacs band and seven other Chippewa bands to exercise off-reservation fishing and hunting rights. The lower federal court also set up guidelines, known as stipulations and protocols, for both sides to follow. These stipulations and protocols provide a framework for how the bands and the state must work cooperatively to manage shared natural resources, including Mille Lacs fish.  In their agreements, the DNR and the bands are required to annually establish the number of walleye that can safely be harvested from Mille Lacs while ensuring sufficient remaining walleye in the lake for a healthy fishery.

      Q: If the walleye population is in decline, why are anglers catching so many?

      A: Fish are biting for two reasons. First, there is a shortage of food for larger walleye. Last fall’s assessment showed that larger walleye were thinner than average. Second, studies in many fisheries show that catchability actually increases when fish population decline.

      In Mille Lacs, walleye congregate in preferred spots rather than disperse evenly throughout the lake. Fewer fish in the lake means there’s more room in the preferred spots for fish to gather, and anglers find these spots where they can catch a larger portion of fish. Finally, while the walleye population has decreased considerably (by half or more), the amount of fishing pressure has declined by a lot more. This means that there are more walleye per angler fishing Mille Lacs today.

      Q: How is the DNR using science and research to help the walleye population?

      A: Mille Lacs Lake is the most studied lake in Minnesota. It is also a complex and changing system. The agency conducts a large number of surveys on the lake annually. These surveys include assessing the abundance of young walleye; setting 52 nets to assess adult abundance; using fine-mesh nets each summer to determine abundance of food (prey fish) for walleye; and using interviews with anglers around the lake (called creel surveys) to estimate the number of fish anglers are catching. The DNR also periodically tags walleye and other species to provide actual population estimates. We are tagging bass this year in cooperation with angling groups, and will be tagging walleye in 2018 and 2019 when the 2013 year class will be reaching full maturity.

      Q: What is the purpose of the external review the DNR has initiated?

      A: The DNR has asked Dr. Chris Vandergoot to lead an independent review of the DNR’s scientific approaches to manage Mille Lacs Lake. Vandergoot is a key member of the international team that co-manages a very significant walleye fishery in Lake Erie. He works for the U.S. Geological Survey in the Sandusky Lake Erie Biological station in Ohio. His review report will be available to the public in early 2018 and will help inform fisheries management decisions for the 2018 season.

      Q: What does the future look like for Mille Lacs walleye?

      A: It is unlikely that Mille Lacs walleye production will return to the levels that state anglers enjoyed over 20 years ago.  The ecosystem of Mille Lacs is going through extreme change, starting with increased water clarity in the mid-1990s, to impacts today from aquatic invasive species such as spiny water flea and zebra mussels. Longer growing seasons are also helping some species such as smallmouth bass but may be hurting others. While walleye will still be abundant, the future fishery will be more diverse, offering angling opportunities for a greater variety of fish.

      ###
    • Lots of politics.  Probably more info in the mille lacs section 
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    • So what is going on with Mille Lacs?
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