wiring up new a/c unit

[fishandshroom]

I know precisely what the code books are for. They have nothing to do with where the blue wires go.

[drowned minnow]

Used to be Minnesota State Board of Electricity, was incorporated into the DLI in 2005 ( was suppost to make it easyer as a one stop place to abtain permits....yaw ok ) heres there link if you want more information...www.doli.state.mn.us Construction Codes and Licensing

The State Construction Code and Licensing units are now consolidated and located at the Department of Labor and Industry. Boilers, High-pressure Piping, Boats-for-hire Boards

Building Codes and Standards Contact us

Manufactured Structures Licensing

Electrical: Licensing and Inspection License lookup (verify an existing license)

Plumbing Plan Review and Inspection Unlicensed individual (electrical, elevator, power limited)

Residential Building Contractors Rulemaking activities of CCLD and fire marshal

Enforcement actions and complaints CCLD Review newsletter

hope this answers your question.

[Roofer]

The DOLI doesn't require permits for every county. Some counties are at their own discretion (sp).

Believe it or not, up north in some places there are no building permits to speak of. It is a zoning permit and no inspections are done.

[sparcebag]

Used to be Minnesota State Board of Electricity, was incorporated into the DLI in 2005 ( was suppost to make it easyer as a one stop place to abtain permits....yaw ok ) heres there link if you want more information...www.doli.state.mn.us Construction Codes and Licensing

The State Construction Code and Licensing units are now consolidated and located at the Department of Labor and Industry. Boilers, High-pressure Piping, Boats-for-hire Boards

Building Codes and Standards Contact us

Manufactured Structures Licensing

Electrical: Licensing and Inspection License lookup (verify an existing license)

Plumbing Plan Review and Inspection Unlicensed individual (electrical, elevator, power limited)

Residential Building Contractors Rulemaking activities of CCLD and fire marshal

Enforcement actions and complaints CCLD Review newsletter

hope this answers your question.

Ya their in that building but the Dept. of labor and industry has nothing to do with any codes! Maybe OSHA Reg enforcement and work comp but you sure dont contact them for any permits,Permits are mostly from the county offices depending on which permit

[sparcebag]

code smode he was just askin a simple question and now you have sucessfully made yourself look like a GREEDY contractor good job more work for someone else

[Roofer]

Just to clear this up a bit, even though it's besides the point........

The Department of Commerce used to handle licensing and codes. The Department of Labor and Industry (www.doli.state.mn.us) took over the Department of Commerce a few years ago.

The residential code book is at the site above. The county or City just enforces the codes where they are required to. Some places don't have enough money to have an inspector sitting around all day, so they don't require them.

[sparcebag]

Roofer ya ever seen a BI license?Plumbing inspector license?Elect inspector license?? None are Issued by the doli.But specific offices that do control these are now located in one convenient building the doli.When codes change or revisions are added its these specific,building codes,elec or plumbing offices that revise or change not doli their more orientated to regulatory contractor lic.disputes, I think even OSHA.If ya call em they'll know nothing of codes but will refer you to the right dept.As the heading at doli here states their consilidated at one location

Construction Codes and Licensing

The State Construction Code and Licensing units are now consolidated and located at the Department of Labor and Industry.

There located at.

[JohnMickish]

Most (not all) electrical inspectors now are contract employees of the state, county or municipality (U of M for example). They each have their own jurisdiction and sometimes it encompasses several counties.

For the record, it dosen't matter where you live in the state of MN, all wiring must be done to the NEC code. The state adopts the new regulation in June of the publishing year (happens to be 2008 this time, done every three years). When the state adopts the new regulations it then becomes state law, so whether it gets inspected or not it still has to be wired to the latest code. Kind of like if there are no cops around are there still laws? Of course there are.

Another bit of information for you guys is the homeowner can pull his own permit and do his own work BUT he has to reside in the residence. He cannot by law work on rental property he owns, his mothers, sisters, brothers, sons or daughters house even if he/she owns said property. The homeowner CANNOT legally pull a permit and hire someone to do a side job. The homeowner has to do the work himself.

I was told that one of the big cities in South Dakota makes the homeowner take a little test before they can pull an electrical permit for themselves.

[sparcebag]

Mnfish I believe when a homeowner pulls his own permit on his or hers homesteaded place they get their education in elec. the first inspection,then they realize after that failure they have to pay for followup inspections and realize If they hired compent people its much easier and between time and followups less costly overall.Building Inspection is the only differing state code left Elec. & plumb. are cut & dried but soon BI will be state wide,cept they now leave it up to city, township,county,municipality if they will or not join in a state wide code enforcement,When they join a inspector is then required whether county employed,contracted,city or township.

[Roofer]

You can take a test in MN now also to do your own wiring.

I have been saying the same things in other posts, but it's make no difference. People will do what they can get away with.

Did you know, you cannot do any roofing without a state license in MN? Even a sub has to be licensed to do roofing in MN. Do you think all of the crews around and homeowners helping out their buddies are licensed? Heck no!!! They are doing what they can get away with and I have seen it posted plain as day on this site many times. If there is no enforcement, no permits, no inspections, do you think anyone is going to care when it hits their pocket book?

You are probably right Sparcebag, but I wasn't about to post which help desk you had to go to at DOLI. I just know that DOLI is responsible for the codes and licensing. Either way it is still DOLI.

[Roofer]

Each town and city in MN HAS to follow code. The can add to the code, but not go under the code, if that makes any sense. It all has to do with if it is required to be enforced or not. Once the State adopts a code, it is state wide, but as I wrote above you can't tell me a person is going to pay for something they don't HAVE to.

[bbqhead]

i was gonna post this yesterday for Roofer or anyone else. i have

a gazebo in the backyard that needs a new roof, has ceder shakes

on it now. according to st paul HSOforum any out building under 120

SF doesnt need a permit to do the roof. so to be on the safe side,

i emailed the permit dept and they say i do need a permit..

the only thing i can figure is they also have a loophole about

any job worth over 500 must have a permit. but in the roofing

section it doesnt state this. dont mind paying for the permit,

just a pain to go to downtown st paul with the parking down there..

thanks for reading

randy

[JohnMickish]

I have been saying the same things in other posts, but it's make no difference. People will do what they can get away with.

Yep, and that's how things go wrong and people get hurt and/or the house burns down or gets flooded or water damage and the list goes on. Then the insurance company pays for the repairs and all of our rates go up due to he "high rate of loss in your area". All to save a few bucks.

[sparcebag]

Each town and city in MN HAS to follow code. The can add to the code, but not go under the code, if that makes any sense. It all has to do with if it is required to be enforced or not. Once the State adopts a code, it is state wide, but as I wrote above you can't tell me a person is going to pay for something they don't HAVE to.

Thats true but its NOT the recent codes adopted it could be as I believe counties west of here 30-40 yr old codes they have not adopted the most recent state codes . Look at the site under codes if ya navigate it correctly you'll find maybe 18-24 counties and some cities outside of original 18 county area located around the cities they adopted the ones who did'nt dont have to comple if they have their own code! Just 3 yrs ago the Willmar area used 3 different codes Willmar and Kandiyohi county adopted the state recomended code outside this county its a different accepted code.

As I stated the muicipalities only have to comply if they adopt the recent code.And lots of areas atre hesitant.

[JohnMickish]

I'm pretty sure the municipalities don't have a choice, once the state adopts it. I could be wrong but that dosen't seem right.

I'll also add that some places like the MSP airport get inspected twice. We get hit with both a state inspector and MAC has it's own electrical inspector as well.

I'd like to say to the homeonwers, don't be afraid of the inspectors. They are not "super electricians" or anything, they are just guys doing their job, and their job is to protect YOU and YOUR house. They will work with you but their job is not to tell you how to do it.

[Roofer]

I agree with everything stated above. We may have been talking about two different things. Yes, there is the UBC I and II, and the IRC. I stated that in the "codes" thread.

I saw a flyer at the city office that said anything 8x12 or smaller needs no building permit, so bbqhead, I think you are right. It's kind of a waste of time for them to require a permit for a gazeebo, but whatever, I guess, The part about being licensed to do roofing doesn't apply to homeowners yet, but if they hire a helping hand that is not licensed, they are crossing a legal line and it happens everyday.

I also agree about the inspectors. Most of them only know the code book and interpret it how they like. Most have never done any actual work, so they can't tell you how to do anything, but they can tell you if it is wrong or not by looking in the handy code book.

BTW, my AC unit has two red wires. I don't know what they are for or what they do and I don't care because I hired a professional to do the work.

When I hired out my furnace, the HVAC guys came and put it in. Luckily for them, a guy in their crew is a licensed electrician. He was the only one to touch any of the electrical. Funny thing is I had to stop him part way through and make him start over because he accidentally put the switch in upside down. We had a quick laugh and it was installed correctly and I have no worries.

[BoxMN]

Note on the inspectors: When I built my garage (myself, with buddies) the inspectors were great. The electric inspector was especially cool, gave me hints on how to do things easier. He also flagged one thing, I didn't have a ground back to main panel connected properly. He said it didn't really need to be connected, as it was grounded properly, but since I had the ground running to house panel might as well connect it. But I digress...

The inspectors were actually really cool, one even stopped by on Fridays after work and watched us a bit. He said we built it "beefy" and he liked that

[carpshooterdeluxe]

i read this whole thread and figured i'd chime in with a little trade insight...

i install temperature controls (low voltage) and in minnesota we have to hold a "power limited technician license". depending upon the interpretation of the area's state electrical inspector, this can allow us to wire a/c units from the load side of the final disconnect to the unit.

as far as state and municipal electrical code goes, the national elecrical code is the MINIMUM standard for wiring and construction of electrical components. cities, townships, counties, etc can adopt stricter codes, but not less stringent. in south dakota, we hardly ever come across a city inspector, other than sioux falls. and for our low voltage work, the state does not inspect. but in minnesota we are required to pull a permit and inspection for all low voltage new work under the power limited technician rules. technically all low voltage systems (security, temp controls, nurse call, cable, phone, etc) must be installed by a licensed tech or under the direct supervision of a licensed tech. (correct me if im wrong but im pretty sure thats right.) much like a journeyman electrician and apprentice electrician.

this has been an interesting thread and i think that its important that homeowners realize that even though it may be easy to twist some wirenuts themselves, that they seek out the proper inspections and installation procedures at the very least.

[sparcebag]

Sorry Mnfish if your pretty sure then your guessing, all ya gotta do is either contact a Head BI try (Godfrey)hes a jovial guy or the head guy cant spell the name (wakeem) spelled with Joqueem??? at the state Building officials ask.Or try to navigate that doli site

[JohnMickish]

It just strikes me odd. Does that mean that new construction dosen't have to have GFCI's, arc faults, interlocked smokes or CO detectors? It just seems that the county or municipality is really opening themselves up for some real nasty lawsuits when someone gets hurt.

I don't doubt you.

[Roofer]

Ya, it's interesting isn't it.

The new code doesn't have smoke and CO detectors hard wired anymore. You just have to have one within 10 feet of bedrooms and can be battery operated.

[sparcebag]

It just strikes me odd. Does that mean that new construction dosen't have to have GFCI's, arc faults, interlocked smokes or CO detectors? It just seems that the county or municipality is really opening themselves up for some real nasty lawsuits when someone gets hurt.

I don't doubt you.

I'm not speaking of elec. or plumbing codes like I said their cut & dried state wide its the building codes that areas have the choice to Adopt or not and keep whatever codes they follow at the time.

[JohnMickish]

OK, that's kind of what I thought. Yes, building codes are up to the local jourisdiction. I still think that these places are really opening themselves up for trouble by not staying current.

[fishandshroom]

UFF take it EZ!! Your embarassing. If you are struggling for work that bad you need to argue here you should prolly find a new trade. YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE YES YOU

[JohnMickish]

UFF take it EZ!! Your embarassing. If you are struggling for work that bad you need to argue here you should prolly find a new trade. YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE YES YOU

I don't think that posting really follows the forum rules, you might want to re-read about calling someone out. If your talking about me, I get my 40 in every week. I'm not a contractor and I don't do residential work or service calls but I have friends that do. That's what I was getting at. This economy has really put the pinch on lots of folks and since I can't help out both my work friends and the FM folks (when I can), I made the decision to help out my fellow tradesman and not give work away. I'm pretty sure I went about it the wrong way but work is work and play is play, and without work you can't play.

That dosen't mean I won't help out with the legal stuff or help with what NEEDS to be done, I am just going to draw the line at HOW to do it. We had a big talk about this sort of thing at work the other day. There were about 10 of us from various trades discussing self help forums on the net. Not just this one and not just the electrical field. We came up with several issues. First off, there isn't a disclamer so what if someone gets in over their head and gets hurt? Who's at fault and whos going to take the hit if the guy gets a lawyer?? Me, FM??? Another big issue was that some of the trades out there are licsense protected, and what if someone post a question for the intent of doing a side job? Not legal, and what if that person gets hurt because a step was missed? We talked about some of the questions that have been brought up (again, not just here and not just electrical) and thought that more than just a few where way beyone the DIY type of projects. Maybe we need to put some sort of limit on what kind of questions can get asked??

There are lots of very knowledgeable folks here who know alot about alot of stuff, but the electrical field is a little different. The rules change all the time in regards to what and where you are in the building. What's legal in ones garages isn't always legal in a basement. And what's legal in an unoccupied basement isn't always legal in an occupied basement.

So, for now it's advice yes, how to do it, no. Think of it from a strickly legal point of view.