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IFallsRon

My tow vehicle in five years?

36 posts in this topic

What will be available in five years to tow a 2,000-lb. boat and 5,000-lb. camper?

GM is closing big-truck plants, Ford is rethinking the 150 and Dodge is too inefficient. Our legislators are encouraging Ford to rethink closing down the Ranger plant.

I'm sure that a Ranger would pull my boat up most ramps but the camper will have to stay home.

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My '98 Chev K1500 will still be my tow vehicle in 5 years, and even in 10, and ideally even in 15 years smile That is what is nice about a full sized truck. They don't wear out like my '87 Ranger did.

They will still be making the full sizers, just not as many, and hopefully the price of them will fall back to where they should be, before it was en vogue for soccer moms to drive trucks. wink

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I know Ford has a whole new style of engine coming out for 2010, direct injected gas engines with a turbo. The 4cyl will have the same power as the sixes do now, and with the fuel economy of the 4. The 6 cyl will have the power and then some of the v8 tritons, with better fuel economy then then the v6 gets now. The v8 will also have the new technoligy and produce alot more power then the v8's do now and get better economy. Plus they have the new v6 diesel that will be in their half ton line up. Plus many more cool things!

Brighter things to come! I know there are electric cars and small trucks coming. In the next couple years pretty much all manufacturers will be on the better fuel/more power kick.

I have heard of possible f100's coming back instead of the rangers, but just a rumor.

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I love the silverado's. Hopefully they won't go down in 5 or so years when I'm looking to trade in the Durango. But I'm driving that thing for a while cause it's paid for and I only use it for hunting and fishing.

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Don't worry, there will still be enough tow vehicles around. Regardless of what gas is, there are still alot of people that need them, just not all of the dorks that live in LA or New York and just use them for commuting. Everything is going to change, and we are kind of in the middle of that right now. Basically you are going to have more engine options, which is a good thing. We are finally going to get some good diesel's, and all of the engines will have some form of forced induction and/or direct injection, more valves, and variable valve timing. Plus all of the manufacturers are working on new twin clutch tranny's, with more gears. Plus, they are working on lightening every vehicle up, which is long overdue. The average weight of SUV's and Pickups has gone up 1000lbs over the last 10 years.

I know I was really disappointed when the new Tahoe/silverado came out last year with the same old engine and tranny. I was in the market for a new SUV and have always liked Tahoe's, but I couldn't believe how expensive they were with that old tech. I guess they are paying the price now, as they can't give them away! I am sure they are trying frantically to speed up the development of their new engine/tranny combo!

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Yep, while they may slow down the production of trucks - they won't cease the production of them. The difference will be that the majority of truck owners will be people who want them for the utility and not just to cruise around town in.

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The full size truck market will always be around, the real question is will guys like you and I be able to afford the gas to put in them every day so that we can have them to tow our boats on the weekend.

My answer to that question is no. Lets be honest with ourselves here everyone "needs a truck" but if you break it down most of us are doing some towing on the weekend and have to haul 2x4s from home depot in the bed only once or twice a year. In that case with $4 per gallon pump prices you have to take a hard look at the numbers and ask yourself "do I REALLY need a truck?"

I currently have a full size pickup for a daily driver and I am going to dump it for a mid size SUV, I think an even better option would be to drive a 4 cyl car daily and have an old 2wd F150 parked during the week, and use it for towing on the weekend. I haven't gone that far yet but with the climbing gas prices who knows......

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Or I look at it this way... My old truck is paid for, but in good shape. To get a "new" car that gets good mileage (say 30), it will cost $20,000, and that is a cheap one. So, say $400 per month payment. $400 per month will buy a decent amount of gas for my paid for truck... That is about 1600 miles at $4 per gallon (about 16 mpg, but I can get better going slower).

That is more than I put on in a month. Plus my insurance is cheap on a 10 year old truck, and (knock on wood) I am only doing maintenance, but worst case it will be about $1500 for engine or $2000 or so for tranny, maybe less as more of these hit junkyards.

I will keep my truck for hunting and fishing habits, and don't see that changing, though we do have wife's car for city hopping, etc. (Another paid for 1998 model.) Key for me is not having car payments at all, then you have much thicker wallet. smile

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Box, or you could buy a $5000 car instead of a 20k + and them #s look alot better!

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I agree with this post entirely. The diesels in half tons and mid size trucks represents the biggest efficiency gains. They will be available next year from most of the big truck companies. Unfortunately the oil refiners are not really geared for this, and you see it in the prices. Until they retool and get the prices in line, they won't offer much for immediate savings.

The weights have gone up because everything needs to be 5 star safety rated, yours tows 65,430 lbs but mine tows 65,435 lbs, and the neeed to say my truck has 25 horsepower more than yours. There was no focus on fuel efficiency and that's not what the market demanded. With the CAFE requirements being raised in the future and the market demands changing, we will finally see some more efficient trucks.

I am also excited about the dual clutches. More efficient (no more torque converters), quicker acceleration, and paddle shifters to boot. Maybe 1-3 years for most trannies to be converted?

And I agree what you said about the 'Burb/Tahoe's. That was GM's bread and butter. They did it well and if you really look close at them, have changed VERY little in the last 15-20 years in the engine/tranny/chassis. They had a formula that worked, they rode very nice, and they were reliable. But they missed the market shift. Big oops. I haven't really seen many new ones on the road and it's been what, 2 years?

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Box, or you could buy a $5000 car instead of a 20k + and them #s look alot better!

I already have that in my wife's car smile And it is paid for, so no out of pocket ca$h for me at all, making is a $0 car smile For folks who don't have two vehicle families, I can see the switch from truck to car might help a ton. I also work from home, so my situation is different than many/most.

But regardless, I say the key thing is to not have vehicle payments. Young people like fancy rigs - boats, cars, trucks, bikes - as you get older you realize the folly in those ways, IMO. Not saying "you" just "you" in general.

I will say that the new diesels are very interesting to me, but I am not an adopter of new technologies until they work some bugs out, which is why I bought the last year model of the old 350. It has paid off for me, so maybe in 10-15 years or so I will sell it and get one of the "new" diesels wink

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Solbes, can you give a bit more info about dual clutches and paddle shifters for us non-informed types? Thanks! It sounds like good improvements, but I don't know what they are smile

4wanderingeyes, does direct injected gas motor tech compare to the dfi outoboards? Is it the same type tech?

While I seem like an old cogger with old stuff, I do like the tech advancements and welcome them, I am just not an earlier adopter for $$ reasons, and design flaw bug reasons.

Thanks for more info, good thread.

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Sure. I'm a Dodge guy, so I'm looking at either a 2010+ diesel Ram or possibly a new mid size Dakota if they improve and downsize on the next model change (if it survives). Back to the dual clutch. Not sure if the trucks will have paddle shifters, but it would make sense. The dual clutches are automatic, so no three pedal operation frown But it's actually faster than a manual and more effiecient than an automatic. Here's a direct quote form Chrysler's blog HSOforum:

"It’s absolutely essential that every aspect of a vehicle be pushed for fuel efficiency. And how many new technologies can make a tank of gas go further but also improve torque and responsiveness? The new six-speed dual-clutch transmission – developed in partnership with Getrag – can do just that. Getrag is a well-known company in Europe and is famous for creating innovative solutions for rapidly changing times.

In essence, the new dual-clutch transmissions—or DCTs as they're called—mix the best attributes of manual and automatic transmissions. The DCT is expected to deliver up to a six percent improvement in fuel economy when it joins the Chrysler lineup in the 2010 model year.

A DCT operates at a high level of mechanical efficiency, which results in better fuel economy. The new transmissions also are extremely responsive. With two shafts and two clutches, there’s a preconditioning event that allows the shift to happen very quickly. Today, a standard automatic transmission may shift in 300 milliseconds, but the DCT can cut that time in half. The ability to shift twice as fast delivers greater performance and adds to the “fun-to-drive” factor.

As part of Chrysler’s Recovery and Transformation Plan, a new plant in Tipton County, Indiana, will build 700,000 DCTs annually."

Volkswagen and Audi have had them on the market for years. Their system is called DSG and includes an "automatic" style of shifting. Or for spirited driving, you can use the F1 style paddle shifters on the steering wheel to make the shifts. There is actually a you tube video of two GTI's and the DSG clearly beat the manual gearbox. It was done in Japanese and subtitled. Do a search and I'm sure you could learn lots more.

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Quote:
4wanderingeyes, does direct injected gas motor tech compare to the dfi outoboards? Is it the same type tech?

I would assume so, but I dont know how the dfi technoligy is. That and all I have done is read up on the direct injeted, so I havent seen or got my hands on one yet!

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Or I look at it this way... My old truck is paid for, but in good shape. To get a "new" car that gets good mileage (say 30), it will cost $20,000, and that is a cheap one. So, say $400 per month payment. $400 per month will buy a decent amount of gas for my paid for truck... That is about 1600 miles at $4 per gallon (about 16 mpg, but I can get better going slower).

Not true, we bought a car for $19,500 two years ago. Payments are $222 per month. It's our second (wifes) car and we work together so it saves a lot. Truck is used for hauling only.

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Not to drag on or get off subject, but a $222 / month payment on a $20k car is either a loooong term or you had a decent down payment, I would guess... Regardless, you have two vehicles, and that is a big part of what my post referred to. Use the one that fits the task at hand.

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I'm running my F150 to 150k, so I should be there in a year or so. After that, I will be buying one of the new 1/2 ton diesels. I think we will really see a lot of these on the road, especially if they will have a 30% mileage improvement as speculated.

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Not to drag on or get off subject, but a $222 / month payment on a $20k car is either a loooong term or you had a decent down payment, I would guess... Regardless, you have two vehicles, and that is a big part of what my post referred to. Use the one that fits the task at hand.

60 month loan, 4 grand trade value for old car and the loan is one of the 0% interest.

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Originally Posted By: BoxMN
Not to drag on or get off subject, but a $222 / month payment on a $20k car is either a loooong term or you had a decent down payment, I would guess... Regardless, you have two vehicles, and that is a big part of what my post referred to. Use the one that fits the task at hand.

60 month loan, 4 grand trade value for old car and the loan is one of the 0% interest.

$276.79 per month (assuming $100 in non taxable fees)

Just trying to clear up any question.

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I think along with the tow vehicles changing, so will the things we tow. 30 years ago, your average boat was a 15' ft runabout or a 14' aluminum boat. Both easily pulled by a sedan. Now we have 20 ft fiberglass boats with so much weight.

Same with travel trailers. Europeans have always camped a lot, but check out their campers. Much, much smaller and lighter than the beasts we cart around.

Besides the lower weight, I think over the next few years people will also be buying smaller because it's all they can afford.

You'd better believe that the boating industry is scrambling to try to figure out where to go from here. They have got to lighten the load and focus more on their 16' or so models. Get back to simpler boats with smaller motors that are lighter and more fuel efficient.

My biggest concern about towing vehicles is that it's awfully hard to find any passenger cars that you can safely put a hitch on anymore and can hold any tongue weight. The cars are plenty powerful to pull stuff, but their frames are no longer designed for it. Auto makers are going to fix this so we can once again tow with sedans and lighter vehicles.

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Good points. I was convinced I needed a 17 or 18 foot boat with a 100-150 hp motor on the back. Now with gas at $4/gallon I'm starting to wonder if this is smart. It could go to $5 easy and possibly higher. I currently have a 16 footer that honestly is more than adequate for what I need. And an 8 cylinder P.U. pulls it quite effortlessly.

If diesel doesn't go down in price I will be looking for a mid-size pickup that can handle a load. Uni body construction is so much lighter, but really can't handle large loads. Going to my extremes, I could see a smaller sport ute or even a cross-over towing a smaller boat. Although I'm not too excited about this.

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I don't know why everyone is so excited about Ford's putting diesels in ther half-ton's after there last offering in the Super-Duty's/ My dad almost pukes everytime he fills his '08 Power Stroke and thinks he traded in a 20mpg Duramax for a 14-15mpg Powerstroke that doesn't have anymore noticiable power. I wouldn't even consider a half-ton with a diesel with diesel $.70 more a gallon and all the emissions restrictions on diesel engines. Just my $.02.

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From what I have read the "new" ford diesel engine has been used in europe for quite sometime and is supposed to be pretty good. I think they are claming more power and about a 25% economy gain over the Triton v8. So who knows where gas and diesel pricing is going, but I doubt diesel is going to go much higher than the 20% premium over gas it currently is. So if there isn't a big cost difference in the price of the engines, it would actually be cheaper to get the diesel.

I am looking forward to the twin clutch tranny's. That will be a dramatic improvement. I have a Durango with the Hemi right now, which is a fun engine, and its going to get a heck of alot more fun with the new tranny.

The good thing about this is its going to force all of the manufacturers to change and reevaluate how they engineer their vehicles, which should lead to innovation. Previously, they had pretty much been resting on their laurels (see Tahoe drivetrain). Should be a good thing moving forward!

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Who said I was excited about getting a Ford Diesel? smile

I'm waiting for the Cummins V8 (5.6L) or V6 (4.2L) to go in the half ton Ram. Should be 20 mpg city and 25 hwy. Granted it's not the stout inline six that go in the 3/4 and 1 tons, but it won't weigh 1200 lbs either.

Duramax would be another consideration in a 1500 Silverado. And I almost hate to mention it, but with current fuel prices I might even consider a Honda Ridgeline if they put a diesel in it. Flame away for that one, I probably deserve it.

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The twin turbo V-8 Diesesl in the '08 Ford Super Duty's is getting 14 mpg at best if they have an engine in the works that is getting 20 mpg why would they put that piece of junk in there current vehicles? I will only believe it when I see it. I have heard good things about the new Cummins except for you have to pull over when the thing goes into regeneration. I don't think the '08 Duramax is as good as it was in the past either. I won't be getting rid of my '06 Duramax for a long time.

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