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DTro

Wetlands and how we use them

49 posts in this topic

Some of you may have heard about a private landowner that was recently fined for doing a little “mudding” on some lowland on part of his privately owned land.

Basically the DNR showed up and fined him for “ruining” the wetlands on his property.

I’m all for ducks and anything else the wetlands support, but there is a fine line between a pond and a lowland that collects some water during the spring. I guess the tract in question completely dries out mid-summer.

I heard of another story where a guy wanted to build a driveway on his property but was told he couldn’t because the “lowland” was considered a wetland even though it held no water. So he gave in and rerouted the driveway. Well the next year the DNR contacted him and told him he had to remove the noxious weeds that were in the “wetland” area or they would charge him $500/hr to do it themselves. The weeds could have been totally removed if the driveway would’ve been allowed in the first place. smile

It’s almost as if deceitfulness is being encouraged.

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I ran into something like this as well. I have about 20 acres of hay land. Well about 20 years ago the county redid a township culvert and the culvert was installed higher up and at an angle, well now I have wet land in the spring, and when it rains alot. I asked the dnr if this culvert could be redone to prevent this because I use this land for hay. They told me no, that they were the ones that set up the culvert to create the wetland. That was really nice of them to flood my land out! Oh and I too have gotten a warning from the dnr that I was riding atv on this wetland, I told them, it is suppose to be agriculture land!

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I’m all for ducks and anything else the wetlands support, but there is a fine line between a pond and a lowland that collects some water during the spring. I guess the tract in question completely dries out mid-summer.

I just want to mention there is a name for these temporary ponds, they're called Ephemeral ponds/wetlands.

They may dry up during the summer but some of them do support some types of aquatic life when wet, and these can be very important to various wildlife species.

Also when dry, the mud/dirt may contain eggs or larvae of the bugs that live in these temporary ponds waiting to hatch the nexttime it gets wet.

Just wanted to throw that FYI out there!

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These area that "dried up" never used to be protected...and a lot of nesting area was destroyed in the past. Not just for birds either, but frogs, bugs, etc.

Now, they are protected. I own a lot of land and the wetlands are clearly known by the DNR/township.

It is a pain at times, but these lands need to be protected. The ATVer who was "mudding" should have been fined in my opinion.

Now, how big business can destroy a wetland for their building in beyond me....

And, BTW, I do have to spray my land for noxious weeds every year.

I have no idea what I would do able the culvert being installed and flooding the land. That is a tough one. Odds are (I could be wrong) is that this land was a wetland at one time and was made agricultural land by the farmer. I know my dad has done the same. Trying to "go back" is not an easy subject....

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the so called wetland issue has gotten way out of hand. along with the Endangered Species Act. put government in charge of anything and they are sure to abuse it. both have been used as a sort of land grab

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I think it is strict, but not abused. It seems that way for we have been changing and abusing the land so much...that something drastic has to be done.

Any duck hunter knows that wetlands are a huge concern.

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I think it is strict, but not abused. It seems that way for we have been changing and abusing the land so much...that something drastic has to be done.

Any duck hunter knows that wetlands are a huge concern.

So what you are trying to say is it is ok that the dnr "created" a wet land on my land without my permission, and that is ok? I really dont care if a duck needs to fly an extra mile to get to water, I am concerned about the cattle I have, that since the creation of this wetland the dnr created I had to buy hay!

side note= I dont farm anymore!

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I think it is strict, but not abused. It seems that way for we have been changing and abusing the land so much...that something drastic has to be done.

Any duck hunter knows that wetlands are a huge concern.

no. it has been abused.

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I can almost guarantee that what they did was illegal. I know for certain that if a developer were to divert runoff from a project onto neighboring property, there would be a massive lawsuit. It may take a lawyer on your behalf, but I would look into it.

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No 4wanderingeyes, I stated that your situation can be different. I don't know what I would do in your case.

A farmer cut-off a creek from our lake (with no outlets) many years ago. Much of our flat lakeshore was underwater and washed away over time. Now the DNR put a culvert in and the farmer is not happy...even though it was legal when he did it many year ago. We both lose as our flat lakeshore is still lost...and the farmer now has flooded land. No human wins.

No matter what the DNR does, the days of more than enough wetlands are gone. They are trying to do the best they can. They can and will make mistake though. People who own land think they can do whatever they want to it...and you can't anymore.

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this was done 20 years ago, It took 5 years before me and 2 other neighbors figured out why our land was always under water in the springs. We looked into it back then, they said it was to recreate a wetland that used to be there 50 + years ago. Today I really dont care either way.

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People who own land think they can do whatever they want to it...and you can't anymore.

yet they still want you to pay full property taxes on the land. crazy I know this from my own experience. and they never can truly tell you what a wetland really is

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Defining a wetland is not easy.

I owe a lot of "wetlands". All undeveloped. Even though I pay a lot in taxes, that does not give me the right to plow any of it up and do whatever.

I even pay taxes on a road that was put in to the lake (public) so other people can drive to their house.

It is a shame that the government has to make laws to protect our natural environment...but people (including me) prove that they have to or we think "what is my little bit going to do, it won't matter". Well, too many destroy the nature on their property...and look what happens.

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It is extremely complex to figure out what is truly a wetland. Vegetation, soils, elevation, etc. all come into play. There are lots of companies that will come out and tell you what a wetland is, for a handsome fee.

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I know where Dtro heard this grin.

Being a mudder my self, I might be a little opinionated on this issue, but hold a high amount of respect for wet land.

I know where in Isanti this minor event is held and know people who have attended this in the past.

I have been around mudding since the early nineties. Some of my first large parties in high school where mudding parties. I used to attend a large one in Ramsey off of Hwy 47 and a smaller one in St Francis. The area (wetland) that was used in Ramsey is now town homes. This wetland used in St Francis is still wetland. Less than 18 years later, you would never even know there was mud runs in that wetland, unless you where their when they where held. If anything, they have created more of a “wet” habitat today, than if we never had run trucks threw that slue. I am sure there was a beer can or keg cup left laying on the ground, but the people who held the events owned the land. They would go threw and clean up very well in the days after the event. I am sure some oil, coolant and other fluids would leak out, but nothing compared to what older 2 stroke motors dump into lakes still to this day.

Basically to have a mudding event on your own property (minus any current laws about event permits needed), is nothing like back filling in a wetland or running a road threw it. It still is a wetland after the event.

I also know the importance of dry wet lands! In Elk River, we have a drain off area around a large housing development that is a dedicated 100 year flood run off area. During the time when the development was started, it was a very wet year or so. This area flooded to the point of standing water. People purchased their homes (not on the drainage/wetland area property) and got used to seeing the land this way. Well, as per the cities drainage ordinance, a small stream that feed water into the drainage area in wet times, was capped off and the wetland was set for its main purpose and dried up. These people who did not own the land where in an up roar. They fought and made a big enough stink, the city uncapped the water supply and the wet land filled up. The large development (on the south end) sit’s right across my parents house. They used to look into woods out their front window, now they look into someone house. When they fought this development at first, they where told “you can not expect a view of property that is not yours to be a permanent thing”, yet these people got a fail safe for this part of the city to look the way they wanted and they did not own it. What’s going to happen when that 100 years flood shows up? Those people are going to get their houses flooded and then complain to the city for doing what their neighborhood organization fought to revere in the first place.

My main point about the above is people are so “set” on what is esthetic appealing to theirs eyes and that is it. I thought I had heard what might have happened was a DNR plane flew over and saw this mudding party, but most likely it was a new neighbor who “did not like what they saw”, that called it in.

Ah, what do you do? The DNR wants to cite you, all you can do is fight it and hope you win, or move further up north or Wis., like most of my die hard mudding buddies did.

Good luck!

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My brother-in-law a hole in their Carleton County property to have a pond behind the house. The hole filled with groundwater and they landscapped it and it looks pretty nice and they get an occasional duck or goose stopping by.

The DNR eventually stopped by the house and gave them a bunch of [PoorWordUsage]. They were told they couldn't make it bigger and they can't ever fill it in, either.

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My brother-in-law a hole in their Carleton County property

You forgot "dug" in that sentence right?

Or was that a Freudian slip? wink

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Many people don't know this (I didn't either), but just like getting a permit or approval to put another building onto your house...you need to do the same will building a pond.

I build a pond on my property...but the DNR instpected it first and gave me the thumbs up.

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Shackbash I used to live 3 miles from the Ramsey mudhole, I know it well. laugh I think all the townhouses they have slammed into that city has done more harm that all the mudding in Minnesota. While I would not have liked to listen to the noise from that, I think the way that they have urbanized the city is horrendous. So glad we got out before the housing market took its big dump.

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lambjm,

Ya, I hung around with some the younger guys from Kens repair when I was in high school. We all had big trucks and I still have a monster Ford to this day. You know, they had a couple events at that spot during the summer, but a month or so after you never knew what had went on, unless you knew. I went to some of the first ones they held. It was very small and I knew most all the people. It did start to get huge and the last season they held it, before they sold it, the events attracked huge crowds and huge trucks. It was loud, it took money to get in and they had food stands and trailer parking. Got pretty organized.

Ah, the good old days smile. It sure was way better than what is in that spot right now.

That is the main point, when your done mudd'in, it still is a wetland! I think that is the only use for a wetland, that keeps a wetland a wetland grin

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what happened to the vegetation? did it become dominated by cattails or reed canary?

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That is what I don't get. How can they develop this wetland (big business) when no one else can? Money talks, I guess.

And, mudding "keeps it a wetland", but much of the plants and animals are damaged or killed in the process.

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No, it became dominated by a 1000 unit town home and single family home development.

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I think a business or developer who destroys any wetland has to replace it with a 2:1 mass ratio. I seem to remember Cabelas in Rogers having to do this

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