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Cooter

Smooth vs hammered blades

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as far as one type catching a fish when another won't, i'm not a believer. i'm sure the vibration signature is slightly different, but the vib signature would also be altered by material/hooks/components on the bucktail itself, shaft, leader, line, and an infinite number of other factors.

when i make bucktails i just use whichever blade looks better to me. considering that most fish, imo, are seeing the bait from the back or side, it doesn't matter in the least. how would anyone possibly be able to isolate the blade factor to say for sure that's why they caught a fish?

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hammered blades are supposed to be used in water that is stained or the area you are fishing is a smaller area i.e. shallow, inside weedlines, spot fishing pockets etc. the hammered is designed to reflect smaller concentrated beams in more directions covering more area but less distance, therefore easier to see. copper blades, brass, gold, silver, painted or whatever are a matter of prefference, and water clarity. bright on bright days or stained water, dark on overcast or lowlight periods. either in clear, but i prefer to dumb down in really clear water, say 10 foot sechii or better. a thicker blde has a lower sound which like a bass speaker goes in all directions at the same time and further than a higher, or tweeter, will. tweeter blades have a more directional sound so reaching a fish is less likely through weede or other obstacals like stumps. but a thick blade with lower frequncy will pass through and around just about anything and alert them that theres something there. night time with a thick blade can confuse a fish as to what direction the noise i comming from. so at night a thinner blade is easier to home in on because they can follow the sound easier. lol, this will be a book if i don't stop here!!!

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Bigfish, VERY interesting post, just wondering, is it confirmed that bigger blades send out vibrations in a wider area as opposed to smaller/thinner blades? Not questioning your word, just wondering if it's something that's been in a magizine/article, or just something you've noticed/theorized on the water.

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it's both really. the diamond blade small water part was something i read in infisherman and seen on bill dance years ago. but it makes sense so i run with it. the thick blade part is just a simple understanding of how sound works. a thick, or dense blade(brass, SS, copper,very thick steel, etc.) will naturally emit a deeper or lower freq. sound and a thinner less dense ( steel, thin brass, etc) will do the opposite. low frequency sound waves go in all directions, further and even thru objects with little volume actually lost. higher frequency sound is again the opposite. this is easy to test with speakers. a car with boom boom bass will rattle windows a block away. take out the bass and you won't even hear it. face a bass speaker away from you and there will be no change in your car, face a tweeter or midrange away and it will change dramaticly. those are sound waves and how they work. based on this i have over the years seen reactions of fish, and based on them i make my judgement. is this like some big government study? no just little old me, and a few others i've discussed it with. it makes sense so i run with it. also if you put a blindfold on and try to find either a tweeter or a bass speaker you will walk directly to the tweeter but will have a much harder time finding a bass speaker. because high freq. is directional and bass is not. now underwater sound waves travel, don't know the exact number, many many times faster and further than in air. but not louder. ever throw a big rock in the water and watch a fish swim one way then turn another and then another? that's sound waves bouncing off stuff and hitting it from different angles and it's confused about where the danger really is. same as a thick blade and where the food is if it can't also get a visual. then a small rock thrown in and a fish either goes one way and stops when the soundwaves are gone or simply turns and looks at the exact spot you threw the rock. it was easy for the fish to feel where it was. same as a thin tweeter blade. easier to find without eyes. anyway that's my take. good luck.

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my take:

Underwater sound waves travels in a sonar pattern. Think depth/fish finders. When sound waves moves through a denser medium, it slows down and disperses more. The difference between high frequency and low frequency is in the length of the wave pattern. Long waves will travel further than short waves. Short waves are easier absorbed or dampened. The loudness of the sound depends on the amplitude of the wave. Typically longer waves will have higher amplitude as well. The forward wave and the passing waves differ like Doppler Effect. Like ambulance approach and ambulance departing. The reason why we don't hear some tweeter cones noise is the sound waves behind the speaker are lower frequency (slightly longer waves) and less volume (amplitude) as it's absorbed. High frequency waves (high pitch sounds) also travels faster than low frequency waves. If siren on ambulance used only low frequency noise, it would be hard to determine if moving ambulance was two blocks or five blocks away. Because sirens on ambulances used high frequency noise, it's easier to determine ambulance when it's about a block away.

Fish sensory are different from human hearing. They have lateral line and other sensors.

So in application of sound, a fish will be able to hone in on a moving high frequency sound easier vs a low frequency sound, by reliance of sound alone. If its low frequency, by the time the fish hones in on the source, the moving source would be gone by then.

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Quote:
When sound waves moves through a denser medium, it slows down

i like your post except a couple little things. sound does travel much faster through water. it has to do with the energy wave being sped up from continuously pushing itself, among other things. that's one reason why theres high and low frequency sonar. low for deep deep water, high for shallow to moderate. also waves of sound at different pitches are either directional or surrounding. they are obsorbed by objects or they reflect off/penetrate objects due to the amount of vibration created from the frequency and what the objects density allows to be bounced back or absorbed. sonar does this and the computer reads the info and determines soft or hard, fish or rock. sonar has a hard time determining wood that's soaked because the outer layer is soft, so it most times will come back as a possible fish. . Whales for example determine where, what size and shape an object is by using several different frequencies of sound and determine at what level each frequency came back at or if it even did. it can, with expierience, even determine what the object is. they can, in theory, even determine the speed an object is moving if they pound out several bursts of sound. sonar is modeled after whales but will probly never be as efficient. a fishes lateral line works in exact reverse of the whale sonar in that it is the reciever of the vibration. theres plenty about how sound travels through water at lowrance. yes low frequency sound confuses a fish easier because of the 360 degree directional spread of the sound but is easier to ''feel'' which is why it's a good thing to do stop and go retrieves. gives a fish time to find it.. and high frequency is easy to find because it's more directional, and levels of sound, like an ambulance siren are easy to determine it's direction because the sound get's louder or softer in just a few inches. therefore easier to home in on. grin doncha just love this whole fishing thing. it's so much fun and takes hardly any thinkin' at all. whistle

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Oh great... Our own Physics 401 course right here... next thing we'll see would be you guys talking about nuclear powered lures!!!

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Reb it's just interesting to watch these guys try to figure it out. Really there's no reason to even be thinking here. My lake has some of the darkest dirtiest water you'll ever find in a lake and crappies have no problem homing in on a black 0 blade in-line spinner. The lateral line system is so well developed they'll find it. And the bass in my aquarium, unless he is lying dormant at night you can't sneak up on him. There's 2 different ways into the room and no matter how lightly you step, he's always staring at you as you walk in, begging for some food.

And for the record all blades are going to produce really low frequency sound. The lowest a human can hear is 20 Hz or so. Burning a tiny blade as fast as you can you might hit 20 Hz, but most are going to be 5-10Hz.

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good one reb. hmmm ... maybe i'll get on that one. little fission an whammo, the fish won't stand a chance. we could call it the ''nukeyalure''. sell like hotcakes and the lakes would be free from fishermen from being sick... for some reason. lol.

i promised myself i was done with this but this is too fun.

a crappie will home in on the small blade. their latteral line will guide them to it the same as a school of baitfish. vibration. higher and lower frequency can also be measured in thousandths of a HZ. when talking about the sensitivity involved with a lateral line on most gamefish 4.001 and 4.002 is a major change in frequency. frequency ,remember, is a source of ''vibration'', not sound. we hear sound only because our brains interpret the vibrations that our eardrums are picking up, and translate them into sound. a thicker or denser material will naturally emit a lower freqency vibration because it can't vibrate any faster than it's density will allow, and thick means slow viration (unless it's hit like a million times a second maybe.) faster vibration = higher frequency, slower vibration = lower frequency. also thinner blades of brass will be higher frequency than thicker blades because the density's allow different speeds of vibration, hence higher or lower frequency's. prior i wrote about the sensitivity of the lateral line. this is where it comes in. if your frequency is say... 7.006 at a medium retrieve and 8.009 at a fast retrieve, that much of a change is major in frequency change to the latteral line and can mean it feels it come from everywhere or from the right. by your bass descrption vahn, you have seen this sensitivity first hand. turn a radio on and see if it still feels you. that would be interesting to know. i.e. radio in a boat might hinder a fishes ability to feel a lure... etc. lol and vahn, i've always believed theres no such thing as too much thinkin' grin . i think therefore i must go fishing. new proverb

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It's interesting VahnTitrio:

Fish sensory are different from human hearing. And there's much unknown, unverified methods as to how a fish sensories operate.

You just never know how that one jamming radio song is making the fish jump into your boat - LOL's, except for those asian jumping carps.

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Vahn... yeah this definitely is an interesting topic...

BIG... remind me not to buy those... I think I'll like fishing better than suffering from radiation poisoning... grin

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My thoughts are though that animals are pretty stupid and predictable, and they do things that are very counter-intuitive to a person. My dog for example. If you hold two of the same type of treats but different flavors one in each hand, she always chooses the one in the right hand, even if you use the same two flavors again but switch which hand their in.

So while we're in the boat thinking that fish might want a different vibration pattern, the fish might be doing something as stupid as thinking if it were being retrieved the opposite direction I'd eat it. Anyone with a pet knows that sometimes you just have to shake your head at them...

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Quote:
sounds like you guys are REALLy in need of some time on the water with your lures!!!

you must be psychic or something shocked ... weeiiirrd!!!! whistle i'm going to have to watch it around here i see. cool

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Please leave a note to my better half:

Slipperybob has been kidnapped. Do not try to contact him or the local authorities or else you will never see him again.

LOL's

That'll get me some water time!

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