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RiverBassGuy

What can be done?

263 posts in this topic

Harsh opinions and prejudices aside, what are some LOGICAL solutions to the tribal netting situation on Mille Lacs and how can someone initialize action? This is not intended to be a "beat the dead horse" back and forth argument. I'm just trying to better the situation because a clear problem exists to many people. My goal is to influence action, not to start another 13 page feud. I'm guilty of my own opinions too, but let's keep it civil. Thanks

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Get over it and stay out of the casinos. I don't always see it as "them screwing us and our resources." We screwed them in the past and we are now screwing ourselves by willingly giving them financial backing (gambling money) to buy back the lands, net fish, ect. Netting walleyes is the tip of the iceberg, IMO.

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First off, being personal friends with the president might help.

Second, I would have to say millions (if not a billion) of dollars for the lawyers that would even think of taken this on.

Third, keep in mind if something was (and I do not know how) reopened and evaluated, ML anglers might loose more than they would gain. The native tribes have power behind them. If it would ever be brought up again, they might/would like more of it in their favor. I would hate to loose the North half or South half of the lake, or the whole lake for MN anglers .

I think things are just fine the way they are. That video shows me that we have a good season in front of us for fishing as an MN angler. I personally do not feel jealous about what the natives are able to do and I personally think Mille Lacs is in great shape. You can not blame a slow bite on this. I would put the effort into learning the lake better and fishing it as much as possible.

Be careful what you wish for.

I lived this went it went down and have come to see the good points that occured with people who got together and faught for MN anglers rights on this issue, at that time.

Thats all I have to say about this. I am thinking fishing from now on.

Good luck though.

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Shack,

Well said. Be careful what you wish for. I, too, don't view the netting to be the Gawd awful autrocity some make it out to be. It's not what I would want ideally, but it's not always about what I (we) want. The fact is that Mille Lacs is and has been in pretty darn good shape for quite a few years, and with spring netting. Let's fish and enjoy it. It's unfortunate what happened with some of the nets this spring, but it could be way worse. We could be worried about boundary lines like on Red.

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Very good point shackbash. As far as this weekend, I'm more concerned about the cold front! It's hard to imagine any beneficial legislation taking place. I don't agree with the way things are, but it's dangerous ground that could end up being worse. I never thought of it that way. I forget how much power the tribes have.

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If a boundry line is put on Mille Lacs that does not start & stop on trust land there would be a lot of people who have lakeshore property inside the mythical area under discussion that would then be suing the feds for granting bad deeds back, in 1891 for us, after the Nelson Act opened the area for settlement.

The real issue is the bands from WS & the hammering they do on the east side.

BTW.... My family has been there since 1891 & I'd be the 1st to file suit.

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Thanks guys!

I know I was not going to comment any further about this issue and I will not after this post and this is the big reason why I have not and will not respond to the Net video post.

When people talk bad on what is currently going on with the tribes and Mille Lacs, to me that is a major slap in the face for all the hard working, dedicated people who gave up a chunk of their lives for us Mille Lacs anglers back when this went down. If it was not for Perm and others, we might not be fishing Mille Lacs on the opener right now. They acted when the time was right and did a great job for what they had to work with. So, this weekend when everyone is fishing Mille Lacs on the opener, give thanks to the guys and gals that made this possible. If it was not for them, we might have lost the whole lake. It is O.K. to have your opinion and disagree with what was dealt (I know the Mn angler groups would have loved to get more back then), but I think we owe those people that did act at that a little more credit on how things are right now. Things are good.

In my opinion, I am happy I can fish the lake and the way things are.

Ya, the weather is questionable, but get up and fish. Good luck dudes.

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Sorry, here I go again.

BJB,

I feel some sort of Federal eminent domain would come into play. They would give you a fair market value for you cabin and that would be about it. It happens to good people all over this contry, even at a local level.

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I try not and let it bother me too much anymore, but it still does. I'm getting to wonder if there is anything anyone can do.

All I can say is go up there , catch a bunch of Eyes, and have a blast grin.gif

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 Originally Posted By: rodmaker
I try not and let it bother me too much anymore, but it still does. I'm getting to wonder if there is anything anyone can do.

All I can say is go up there , catch a bunch of Eyes, and have a blast grin.gif

rodmaker-

I am in the same boat. It bothers me a lot, but I wonder if it's even worth nagging about.

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I agree Shack. One needs to forget about this and go and enjoy the good fishing. We can wish for something different but, it could be worse. The fishing is good and we should all enjoy it while it lasts. Every lake has its ups and downs and Mille lacs will be fine.

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Shackbash, it had a lot more value a couple of years ago. When you get there when we did you get a pretty good seat. Figure how many miles of lake shore at how much per lineal foot. Use 100 mile and $2500/ ft & it is $13.2 million per mile and $1.32 billion for roughly the whole lake.

I saw lets find a way to all get along and leave this wonderful resource for succeeding generations.

BTW..I now have grandkids. That 6 generations of my family that have loved the place.

Time to go there.

Tight lines to all & have fun & be safe.

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 Originally Posted By: shackbash

When people talk bad on what is currently going on with the tribes and Mille Lacs, to me that is a major slap in the face for all the hard working, dedicated people who gave up a chunk of their lives for us Mille Lacs anglers back when this went down.

Speaking about the truth of this operation of what is actually happening is "talking bad?" I'm sorry shack, but this is what is wrong with the whole situation. People who don't want to face reality and learn about what is happening is the whole problem . You can't just act like this stuff isn't happening because it is. Education is the key, so I suggest not ignoring this issue.

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D,

I don't think anyone here has denied that "stuff is happening" that we don't agree with. The point is, it's not as bad as it could have been / could be. I'd dare say we wouldn't have the same outcome if the 1891 treaty were written / legislated today. That's a hypothetical, but to say the Natives should cease all practices because it's not the way "we" do things, and it's not fair to the fish, ect. is a frightened (and frightening) way of looking at things. The health of Mille Lacs over the last years is proof we don't need to be scared "the stuff" that's happening.

"The enemy of good is perfection." We got it pretty good as it is. We create more problems trying to get it all our way, than we have now. It's never gonna be to everyones liking. I choose to get over it. Acceptance, not denial.

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I'd be willing to stand there and milk the eggs out of thousands of walleyes on my own time if given the opportunity. I do hate seeing those monsters go to the knife. The lake is a great fishery; however, I think that we can agree a problem does exist. Allowing non Mille Lacs Ojibwe to net might be a starter solution. I was wrong in initially viewing them as the culprit. The sad thing is when the surrounding state bands come and fill up a truck bed full of walleyes. That is no exaggeration, I've seen it with my own eyes. Not from nets either.

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Like another guy said before in another post.....it does not matter when you take the fish out of the lake. If they took it in november last year that fish would not be there to milk anyway. It is hard to swallow when all you are thinking this time of year is spawn and you see all of those fish getting taken. All your hearing is "let them spawn and then take them".......they did...last year. I am not fully on board with it but think of all the fish non tribals are taking out every year. I absolutely love this lake because you never know what your about to get ...over 28 incher or 14-15 incher. That is absolutely the best part about this lake. Lots of potential trophies!!!!!!!!! Hurry up night and go away so I can start my journey to the place I love.

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Icehooker,

I agree, but taking the eggs during netting would be better than nothing. Right now the eggs are going directly into the garbage can.

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Icehooker

So what you are saying is that there would not be an extra 20 million plus eggs every year if they did their netting a couple weeks after spawn. Don't really understand the thinking behind that point at all.

Duane

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 Originally Posted By: DHanson

Speaking about the truth of this operation of what is actually happening is "talking bad?" I'm sorry shack, but this is what is wrong with the whole situation.

Hang in there Hanson;

When something is wrong, there's nothing wrong with calling it wrong.

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 Originally Posted By: fishn4kids
Icehooker

So what you are saying is that there would not be an extra 20 million plus eggs every year if they did their netting a couple weeks after spawn. Don't really understand the thinking behind that point at all.

Duane

The "loss" you get from taking them "before" the spawn is NOT an annual event, it's a ONE TIME loss. If you look at it from one perspective, they are taking these fish "after" the spawn -- 11.5 months after last year's spawn. This is easier to see with an example.

Here's 2 scenarios -- just hypothetically say that there's 1000 fish in a lake and there's 1 fish taken out via net each year. We can take a look at the total fish that spawn over a 5 year interval:

First, "net" the fish after they spawn -- all fish will spawn:

Year 1 1000 fish

Year 2 999 fish

Year 3 998 fish

Year 4 997 fish

Year 5 996 fish

Total spawning fish in 5 years: 4990

Second example: take fish before they spawn - now there's 1 less fish spawning each of the 5 years...

Year 1 999 fish

Year 2 998 fish

Year 3 997 fish

Year 4 996 fish

Year 5 995 fish

Total spawning fish in 5 years: 4985

Difference if you take the fish before or after the spawn -- minimal -- 5 fish out of roughly 5 thousand, or one tenth of one percent....not coincidentally, the same ratio as the netting percentage each year (1 out of 1000).

Whether you keep the process going for 5 years or 50, you still only have 'lost' a ratio of whatever 1 year's worth of netting is. In this case, one tenth of one percent, which is the quantity that were 'netted' each year in my hypothetical example. It is NOT a cumulative effect.

Hypothetical numbers aside, the point here is that if you waited until "after" the spawn this year, it's still "before" next year's spawn. If you wait for that, you could always wait for the next one. My numbers are purely hypothetical....I'm not saying that the netting is one tenth of a percent of the 'eye population. Heck, it might be less or it might be more, I don't know. I'm simply pointing out that the math says waiting for 1 more spawn won't have as much of an effect as your "20 million eggs every year" statement makes it seem.

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 Originally Posted By: Desperado
 Originally Posted By: DHanson

Speaking about the truth of this operation of what is actually happening is "talking bad?" I'm sorry shack, but this is what is wrong with the whole situation.

Hang in there Hanson;

When something is wrong, there's nothing wrong with calling it wrong.

And calling it "wrong" does not make a person racist.

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I do see your point, didn't know they also did it in the fall. When do they do their netting in the fall? I just don't see the point in letting all those eggs go to waist, when they can be used for the DNR's restocking program. If I remember my history right, the indian tribes were very big on not letting things they catch and kill go to waste. They used every part of the animal they killed. Correct me if i'm wrong. But wasn't that one of the reasons the tribes of the 1800's was so mad at the white man, because we wasted the buffalo and other animals. But now the times are different and they are wasting the eggs of the fish and we are suppose to just sit back and not say nothing. I just think that if they did it with trap nets, the results would benefit us both. Right. Just my .02.

Duane

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Or just do it by hook and line. Just get rid of that gill net. They can have a limit of 50 per person if they want with the same 122,000 pound harvest they have, but do it by hook and line. With a protected slot of 18-28" like we have and be able to fish pre-spawn like they do now. The problem in my eyes is the gill net. Ban the gill net!

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I think aanderud's chart is pretty good \:\) .

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