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Teddy's Back!!

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Case has the hot hand but no I do not want him next season as a starter the backup sure.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Hoyt4 said:

Case has the hot hand but no I do not want him next season as a starter the backup sure.

 

 

Then who would be a starter in your ideal situation?

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5 hours ago, Nick Kuhn said:

Generally speaking, such streaks in the NFL are an anomaly and players fall back into their typical play (see 2015 Cam Newton Vs 2016/2017).

Keenum.png.1ee2f1b23a4e7805612f7bf88a129d5c.png

That's the first 33 games of Case's career (which is up to the bye week of this season), and the last 6 games (after the bye week this year). You wouldn't want to give Case a Matt Flynn type contract only to see him fall back to the top line kind of stats.

That garbage means nothing. Take Brady,Brees,Rodgers or Teddy and put them on the Browns roster and get back to me on how they perform vs their career average. 

Matt Flynn had like one good game while Case has played consistently well the whole Season. Teddy came in on Sunday and looked Terrible mechanically and in making decisions.

What does the stat line look like in Houston for all other QBs since Case played? Did their numbers go higher than his?

 

He will get a big contract and the Vikings will pay it.

 

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I have a "friend of a friend" who is good friends with one of the starting lineman. Nobody has spoken Teddy's name in the locker room all year and Case has been the team leader. Just because we have time and money vested in Teddy doesn't mean he is the best bet for the team going forward. Sometimes you need to cut your losses. Give Case a two year deal and start doing some head-hunting in the draft. Do I think that it is a fluke that we have done so well this year on a 3rd string QB?...no. Do I think that we have the right scenario to bring out Keenum's full potential?... YES!

I am glad that they ran TB in the 4th quarter. I don't think that it showed his full potential, but it did show that there is a lot of rust to knock off. Going into next year's contract negotiations there is no doubt in my mind that Case should be prioritized in front of Teddy... Not because he "earned his spot", but because he has proven to be a viable QB. Teddy has proven that he has the potential to be a viable QB.

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12 hours ago, fishingstar said:

I think Teddy is a better QB.

What on earth would make you come to that conclusion?

2 hours ago, Hoyt4 said:

Case has the hot hand but no I do not want him next season as a starter the backup sure.

 

 

Case Keenum will not be a backup to start next year no matter where he lands unless he gets hurt.

2 hours ago, PurpleFloyd said:

Then who would be a starter in your ideal situation?

Must be Tom Brady, Brett Favre or Payton Manning in their prime.

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8 hours ago, Nick Kuhn said:

Generally speaking, such streaks in the NFL are an anomaly and players fall back into their typical play (see 2015 Cam Newton Vs 2016/2017).

Keenum.png.1ee2f1b23a4e7805612f7bf88a129d5c.png

That's the first 33 games of Case's career (which is up to the bye week of this season), and the last 6 games (after the bye week this year). You wouldn't want to give Case a Matt Flynn type contract only to see him fall back to the top line kind of stats.

You do realize those stat lines are almost identical to Teddy's, right?

Bridgewater would not have very many wins at this point if he weren't on one of the best Defensive teams in the league. Not only that but the dude gets hurt running backwards in practice. Keenum and Bradford have both proven themselves to be better QBs than Bridgewater but Bradford seems to be injury prone as well. Keenum has not only been the better QB this year but seems to be durable. 

The Vikings would be crazy to hitch their wagon to Bridgewater if they can sign one of the other better options.

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Keenum will be a starter somewhere next season, either here or elsewhere.  Teddy will likely be signed as a back up with perhaps the potential to compete for a starting job.  He still hasn't proved he's fully back from his injury and is going to be able to pick up where he left off.  keep in mind he left off as a mediocre QB with some upside, he was still mainly operating under the hope that he'd improve. 

Ideally I'd like the vikings to sign Keenum as the starter and sign Teddy and the backup.  I think they've proved that the 2 can coexist and they seem to want each other to succeed. However, I wouldn't go and give Keenum a huge contract, maybe a 3 year deal with good money and maybe some good incentives where he could cash in if he continues to play as well as he has this year.  I'm still not sold that this is the real Keenum and that he's not going to regress to the old Keenum, but if he does then we've still got Teddy as an option and we also haven't backed ourselves into a corner with long term contracts if neither of them pan out as long term solutions.

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Case isn't anything less than he was before. He is getting decent coaching and the team is really playing together as a unit. You have to have a decent group around the QB but Case is showing he can get the team pumped up and playing to their potential and that's huge. 

I say sign case and keep drafting QB's if you think you can upgrade.

 

The other thing to consider is Shurmur and Sam have gone everywhere together for the most part and Pat really likes him so if Sam recovers completely from his knee issues there is a strong possibility he lobbies to keep Sam on the roster. 

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3 minutes ago, nofishfisherman said:

 However, I wouldn't go and give Keenum a huge contract

That may not be up to the Vikings. There are plenty of teams in need of a guy like him and if Shurmur gets a head coaching job there may be a bidding war and the price might go above his worth like Scott Mitchell.

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You guys seem to be overlooking the time the improved O line has given the QB's to throw this year.

We still have no idea how Teddy will do when given additional time to throw.

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5 minutes ago, Big Dave2 said:

That may not be up to the Vikings. There are plenty of teams in need of a guy like him and if Shurmur gets a head coaching job there may be a bidding war and the price might go above his worth like Scott Mitchell.

That is very true.  I can see a team way over paying for him and regretting it pretty quickly.  He has played really well for the Vikings but its much easier to look good on a good team that can mask some of your mistakes.  Put him on a number of the teams looking for a QB and i don't see it going so well for him.  

If another team is going to give Case a stupid contract then Id let him walk.  I don't see Bradford getting offered huge money given his injury issues so you may be able to sign him with Teddy as the backup if Case is lured away with an over valued contract.  With Bradford your starter I think its easier to lure Teddy back as he'll probably think his odds of seeing playing time are probably decent with Mr Glass in front of him. 

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Quote

Vikings QB Case Keenum could command $15 million a year as free agent

By CHRIS TOMASSON | ctomasson@pioneerpress.com | Pioneer Press

 

Vikings quarterback Case Keenum has been one of the NFL’s biggest bargains this season. That should change in 2018.

Making $2 million in his first season in Minnesota, Keenum has gone 7-2 as the starter for the 9-2 Vikings. One salary-cap analyst estimates the pending free agent could make more than seven times that next season.

“A lot will depend on how the year ends, but based on how he’s doing right now, if I had to put an estimate on it, I would say he probably is going to get a contract worth about $15 million a year, like three years, $45 million,” said Jason Fitzgerald, who runs the web site OvertheCap.com.

Fitzgerald based his projection in part on the three-year, $45 million free-agent contract that Mike Glennon got from the Chicago Bears last spring. That deal turned out to be a mistake; Glennon lost his job Mitchell Trubisky after four games. But it showed how teams value quarterbacks in a league without a lot of great ones.

“If you have an arm and can throw a little bit, there’s such a scarcity of talent at the position, and I think there’s a lot of worries about guys coming in from college unless you’re looked at as a super prospect and are going to be picked in the top five of the draft,” Fitzgerald said.

After five mostly uninspiring NFL seasons, Keenum has completed 66.1 percent of his passes for 2,476 yards with 14 touchdowns and five interceptions in his first year with the Vikings. He has the NFL’s 10th-best passer rating at 96.2.

Keenum took over for Sam Bradford, who suffered a left knee injury and is now on injured, and has played well enough to keep former starter Teddy Bridgewater on the bench. Bridgewater hasn’t played since suffering a torn ACL in August 2016 but was activated from the physically unable to perform list three weeks ago.

Vikings coach Mike Zimmer said Friday that Keenum again will start next Sunday at Atlanta, but Zimmer has not committed to him beyond that.

Fitzgerald said if Keenum were to lead Minnesota on an extended playoff run, his market value could rise to as much as $18 million annually. He does not see a scenario, though, in which Keenum could command the franchise tag from the Vikings, which would be more than $20 million a year.

Fitzgerald could see Keenum getting a contract extension from Minnesota for three years that is guaranteed for the first year and then has few guarantees after that. Then the Vikings could cut ties with Keenum if he doesn’t remain the starter or doesn’t duplicate his success of 2017.

Keenum, Bridgewater and Bradford all can become free agents next March, but any could be re-signed by the Vikings before then. There is language in the collective bargaining agreement that because Bridgewater was on the PUP list for the first six weeks and is in the last year of his contract, his 2017 salary of $1.354 million could be extended, or “tolled,” to next season.

Fitzgerald doesn’t see that happening.

“I think the Vikings want to keep things nice and harmonious,” he said. “I don’t know if they’re going to push the issue of tolling his contract because (Bridgewater) could win that in a grievance that he was healthy enough to play before the sixth week of the season but couldn’t because he was on the (PUP) list. I think they will try to work out some kind of extension for him and not … get the players union involved and (have) it be something messy.”

Fitzgerald said it would be helpful in evaluating Bridgewater if he gets playing time this season. Regardless, he sees a scenario in which Bridgewater returns on a short-term deal for between $6 million and $7 million a year plus incentives.

“He has showed enough before (the injury) that he could get something like (Robert Griffin III) did when he was coming off injury,” he said. Griffen got a $6.75 million guaranteed deal from Cleveland in 2016.

Fitzgerald said Bradford, if his knee checks out, also might be looking at a short-term, free-agent deal worth between $6 million and $7 million a year plus incentives. He’s making $18 million this season.

Until he was hurt in the opener against New Orleans, and subsequently looked back in one half at Chicago in Week 5, Bradford had been looking at a possible long-term deal worth more than $20 million a season.

“He’s going to lose a lot,” Fitzgerald said. “He’s been plagued by injuries his whole career. I think it’s an uphill battle now for him.”

Fitzgerald does not see a scenario in which Bradford returns to Minnesota. Instead, he sees the Vikings re-signing Keenum and Bridgewater before they become free agents in March. In that scenario, Keenum and Bridgewater would combine to make a bit more than $20 million next season, a manageable amount for their top two quarterbacks. The Vikings then would have a year to see which quarterback earns the top job.

“I think that’s the best scenario for them, and then they really decide in the future who the (starting) quarterback is unless Keenum leads them to the Super Bowl,” Fitzgerald said.

 

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44 minutes ago, Duffman said:

You guys seem to be overlooking the time the improved O line has given the QB's to throw this year.

We still have no idea how Teddy will do when given additional time to throw.

Come on Duff, my Grandmother could throw the ball down field if she had the time! And shes been dead for 15 years! :D

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The scenario laid out in the article does make sense and I'd probably be ok with something in the $15 million a year for Case as long as it doesn't lock you into it long term.  Since I'm not yet sold on Case long term I want to see them mitigate long term risk while realizing they will probably have to assume some risk to sign him.

If you have to pay Case $15 million or Bradford $7 million I'd probably pay Case on a 3 year deal with only the first guaranteed.  That gives you one more year to look at him.  If he proves it again then you can look at extending the deal.  If it does't go well you're out the extra $8 million above what you'd have had to pay another QB but its not a mistake that will really hamper your future plans assuming there isn't gobs of dead money which the vikings tend to be good at avoiding.

 

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2 hours ago, Duffman said:

You guys seem to be overlooking the time the improved O line has given the QB's to throw this year.

We still have no idea how Teddy will do when given additional time to throw.

They gave him like 4 seconds to throw that interception so there is that.

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2 hours ago, nofishfisherman said:

That is very true.  I can see a team way over paying for him and regretting it pretty quickly.  He has played really well for the Vikings but its much easier to look good on a good team that can mask some of your mistakes.  Put him on a number of the teams looking for a QB and i don't see it going so well for him.  

If another team is going to give Case a stupid contract then Id let him walk.  I don't see Bradford getting offered huge money given his injury issues so you may be able to sign him with Teddy as the backup if Case is lured away with an over valued contract.  With Bradford your starter I think its easier to lure Teddy back as he'll probably think his odds of seeing playing time are probably decent with Mr Glass in front of him. 

I don't think it's as much the talent around him being that great as it is that he is playing better. 

We finally got a QB who can win games on the cheap and now fans want to send him packing and play a QB with a terrible knee and no track record.

 

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36 minutes ago, PurpleFloyd said:

They gave him like 4 seconds to throw that interception so there is that.

Teddy did have plenty of time.  He dropped back and got antsy the second any hint of pressure got near him.  He started getting happy feet dancing around and then rushed and made a poor throw.  I can't really blame him for the jitters given the situation but thats not exactly what you want to see out of your QB.

Part of what has made Case so effective is his coolness under pressure.  The oline has been better but even when it has broken down he has really helped himself out by knowing where and when to step up in the pocket, when to escape the pocket all while remainingcalm and maintaining good mechanics.  Then he's also had a few where he was truly a magician and ducks under would be tacklers, I can think of at least 3 times where he escaped situations that lead to a sack 99% of the time and in those situations he not only avoided it but made a positive play downfield instead of just throwing the ball away.  

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Teddy has always had poor mechanics. Norv worked with them and they can correct them in practice but even the coaches said that when he gets pressured he reverts back to his bad habits and that's a tough thing to break.

 

Case is the son of a coach and he has had fundamentals drilled him from the time he could hold a football and that shows when he is under pressure because he still maintains his proper mechanics and keeps his eyes down field. 

 

He set many passing records in College and only dropped in the draft because he was an inch shorter than standards.

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The one and only thing Teddy has going for him is the fact that he is only 25 years old and not 29 and 30 like Keenum and Bradford. 

But all that probably means is that you would have a bad QB for a longer period of time.

If Keenum can manage to take this team deep into the playoffs, I don't know how the Vikings (or any other team) could cut him loose without at least taking a solid run at keeping him here.

Edited by Big Dave2

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7 hours ago, Duffman said:

You guys seem to be overlooking the time the improved O line has given the QB's to throw this year.

We still have no idea how Teddy will do when given additional time to throw.

Ummmm, I think we got a glimpse on Sunday. :D

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8 hours ago, Duffman said:

You guys seem to be overlooking the time the improved O line has given the QB's to throw this year.

We still have no idea how Teddy will do when given additional time to throw.

It also helps that Thielen and Diggs are #1 and #2 in the league in contested catches.

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Oh please, the kid hasn' seen game action in forever and the place was rocking, he was jacked up.

I'll wait a tad before I knock him down a few notches.

He ain't no Manziel. ;)

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16 minutes ago, Duffman said:

Oh please, the kid hasn' seen game action in forever and the place was rocking, he was jacked up.

I'll wait a tad before I knock him down a few notches.

He ain't no Manziel. ;)

I've waited 4 years. ;)

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He had 2 dropbacks, let's analyze them.

5a39c2b5a4ee9_Bridgewater1.thumb.png.664a3ee2e823f74d49afc0b648850719.png

First dropback. Floyd is his first read, running a deep post. There's a safety not even on the screen and the corner has a huge cushion, you can't throw that route. You have Thielen running the 0 yard out route, Teddy never even looks there so I'm guessing that was a decoy route to try draw defenders. Here he is transitioning to looking at Morgan, who might be able to get you 4 yards before you get him absolutely murdered by the defender over the top of Thielen. He then looks backside to Treadwell, who is running a slant route right into the safety staring right at Teddy. Throwing there would be 6 points Bengals. From there you know he dances a bit before throwing high to McKinnon as the checkdown.

 

Bridgewater2.thumb.png.cefc0fa2f6abc65a25041592b5d7bee9.png

This is the second play. I have no idea how anyone can fault Teddy here. First of all we have a brilliant blocking scheme where Rashod Hill has to block two guys by himself (he took the inside man, leaving the outside man as a free runner). The defense is running a zone with all eyes on the QB. Throwing to Morgan will be picked off. Throwing to Treadwell there will be a collision right as the ball arrives. Thielen has Treadwell's defender sitting under the throw with a safety (offscreen) over the top. Murray is running a wheel route that will take him right to the other safety. He hits Floyd right in the hands for what should have been a 7 to 8 yard gain.

Edited by Nick Kuhn

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