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bbfenatic

2016-2017 nhl Playoffs

112 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, lungdeflator said:

Hanzal is the biggest teddy bear in the league

 

Agree...but he's supposedly a really good faceoff guy :blush:

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10 hours ago, CaptainMusky said:

Pominville is absolutely killing us right now. He doesn't produce at all. Isnt a factor in any games and is costing us $5.6M for TWO MORE YEARS! Ouch.

We are still paying off Vanek after this year. If the Cap doesn't go up, we cannot buy out Pominville too. That would be almost $7M toward the Cap of dead money between the two next year. Ouch!

Too bad we cannot find a team willing to take him like the Phaneuff trade to Toronto last year. Arizona owes us one...


Yep not a good deal either way but we just can't protect him so if he doesn't waive we might have to buy him out. After next season Vaneks buyout comes off the books and buying out pommers 1 year doesn't hurt as much, then again if he waives we might have to honor his contract so who the heck knows. Whoever vegas takes will also get some money off the books. Koivu is in the last year of his contract next season, I don't see any young guys ready to take over his spot yet so maybe we can sign him to a Staal like contract and save some $$$ there too. The cap will be tight but not unmanageable in the future. Eventually that Parise contract will be an anchor but hopefully he can still contribute.

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Posted (edited)

11 hours ago, Bear55 said:


Yep not a good deal either way but we just can't protect him so if he doesn't waive we might have to buy him out. After next season Vaneks buyout comes off the books and buying out pommers 1 year doesn't hurt as much, then again if he waives we might have to honor his contract so who the heck knows. Whoever vegas takes will also get some money off the books. Koivu is in the last year of his contract next season, I don't see any young guys ready to take over his spot yet so maybe we can sign him to a Staal like contract and save some $$$ there too. The cap will be tight but not unmanageable in the future. Eventually that Parise contract will be an anchor but hopefully he can still contribute.

Right, its a pickle for sure. One thing I did read is that Pominville has a Modified No Trade clause which basically means he lists teams. I assume, not 100% sure which way it goes, that the list is of teams to NOT be traded to. For 2016-17 it was 20 teams. For next season its 10. So, maybe that is a good thing.

Edited by CaptainMusky

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2 hours ago, CaptainMusky said:

Right, its a pickle for sure. One thing I did read is that Pominville has a Modified No Trade clause which basically means he lists teams. I assume, not 100% sure which way it goes, that the list is of teams to NOT be traded to. For 2016-17 it was 20 teams. For next season its 10. So, maybe that is a good thing.

 

He's got no value to any team at the price he's locked into...he'll be bought out as soon as we are able regardless of any hit we take...a minimum salary young guy can be of more value to us than he would ever be going forward IMO. 

 

No way they sign either Hanzal or White so they ended up being very expensive rentals that did not work...in fact I blame that transaction for our downfall...why they tried to fix something that was not broken is shameful....messed up a really solid team...chemistry was good, players were locked in and playig well, team was winning...guys from Iowa were motivated when getting 1 or 2 game tryouts...future looked bright and then the lights went out after the AZ trades IMO.

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The way I understand the Pomminville situation is that the cost to buy out two years of his control makes replacing him with a cheap player a total wash so we gain nothing unless the new player is better which despite is decline isn't a sure thing. He did have some nice stretches this year when he did produce. After next season is a whole new ball game and we would only have to buy out one year of his contract. But that whole vegas thing clouds everything else right now. I'm just going to sit back and watch us come back in this series and win the cup. Then wake up and not worry about any of it.

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21 minutes ago, Bear55 said:

The way I understand the Pomminville situation is that the cost to buy out two years of his control makes replacing him with a cheap player a total wash so we gain nothing unless the new player is better which despite is decline isn't a sure thing. He did have some nice stretches this year when he did produce. After next season is a whole new ball game and we would only have to buy out one year of his contract. But that whole vegas thing clouds everything else right now. I'm just going to sit back and watch us come back in this series and win the cup. Then wake up and not worry about any of it.

 

A wash with a younger player would be perfect....Pom is trash at best, weak on his skates, weak shot unless it is sitting on a tee, slow, no grit, etc etc etc etc....we have a half dozen or so players in IA right now who would be better....if he sees ice time in a Wild uniform next year I'd be so surprised..and so would he.

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3 hours ago, bbfenatic said:

in fact I blame that transaction for our downfall...why they tried to fix something that was not broken is shameful....messed up a really solid team...chemistry was good, players were locked in and playig well, team was winning...guys from Iowa were motivated when getting 1 or 2 game tryouts...future looked bright and then the lights went out after the AZ trades IMO.

 

 

I feel the same way.  Pretty depressing now the more I think about it.

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21 hours ago, bbfenatic said:

 

He's got no value to any team at the price he's locked into...he'll be bought out as soon as we are able regardless of any hit we take...a minimum salary young guy can be of more value to us than he would ever be going forward IMO. 

 

No way they sign either Hanzal or White so they ended up being very expensive rentals that did not work...in fact I blame that transaction for our downfall...why they tried to fix something that was not broken is shameful....messed up a really solid team...chemistry was good, players were locked in and playig well, team was winning...guys from Iowa were motivated when getting 1 or 2 game tryouts...future looked bright and then the lights went out after the AZ trades IMO.

The thing people forget is we would still have the opportunity to retain SOME salary so getting rid of Pominville wouldn't be as far fetched as you make it sound. Yes, we would be on the hook for a chunk of change yet, but it could certainly be less than what we are paying him now and possibly get something in exchange even if it were a new water bottle carrier.

Hanzal and White will not be resigned, but I disagree about Hanzal's play. He has been just fine. Last night was another step up in his game. He was physical and had a sweet goal that ended up icing the game.

He has been valuable as a 3rd or 4th center. He wins a ton of faceoffs. We couldn't trust Graovac in ANY D zone faceoff and he was going to be the guy we would have in there if we didn't do the trade. Yeah, Grao is faster, but nothing else about his game intrigues me at this stage.

Haula is out, so, if we hadn't done the trade, where would we look for that additional center? Shroeder? Please! He would be a good guy to put in for energy at wing, but I don't want him at center.

The 1st round pick the wild gave up in that deal was going to be a basic high 2nd round pick. This draft is very weak. We have talent emerging with Ek, Tuch (hopefully), Greenway and Kaprisov hopefully in 2018. We can afford to give up a pick this year if it helps our chances this year. Which I certainly think it has.

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1 hour ago, CaptainMusky said:

The thing people forget is we would still have the opportunity to retain SOME salary so getting rid of Pominville wouldn't be as far fetched as you make it sound.

 

I'm not saying it is far fetched....I am saying he is gone...bought out....for sure.  It only makes sense.

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11 minutes ago, bbfenatic said:

 

I'm not saying it is far fetched....I am saying he is gone...bought out....for sure.  It only makes sense.

IDK, that is a lot of dough to cough up for a buyout. If the CAP increases I think it makes it more palatable, but if it stays flat, I'm not so sure. Don't get me wrong, I want him out of here in the worst way, but I just don't think buying him out at that rate is in the cards. Maybe it will get done, but that is a lot of money IMO to pay a guy to not play that hurts our ability to replace him.

 

Here is what it would take. Might work, but we have 3 guys we need to worry about signing for next year and we will lose someone to Vegas. Maybe it works???

PomBuyout.JPG

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Hanzal has some decent games here and there, and I would never expect him to be a huge numbers guy on offense.  But honestly with that kind of size, I would expect him to take the lead on driving the net and being a pest in front of any goalie, especially in a series like this.  Get physical.  Next time Reeves or somebody tries to take Parises head off, I would hope somebody with Hanzals size would step in or make a big hit on the next shift.  Kind of surprised Stewie hasn't fought anybody yet, maybe Baby Boudreau has told him not to.

As far as his goal last night, good on him, but anybody on the team could have taken that same shot and scored.  It wasn't anything special.  

Wild finally got a favorable bounce with that Coyle goal.  After 150 shots on the series, something had to give eventually.  It was interesting to watch the Blues change their game after Wild got the first goal.  

When is the last time Wild scored on a break away or odd man rush?  Seems like months ago.

 

As far as all that CAP and salary buyout stuff...way above my head haha

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Well we didn't get swept, need to see another win or two before I believe in any kind of come back, the more convincing the win the better. We need to light them up one game and get in Allen's head, scoring first in this series seems to be the key even though it shouldn't matter. Good teams can dig themselves out of holes when it matters.

Have to say the Blues "4th" line of Reaves Brodz and Upshall are as absolute handful, thank god they can't score.

 

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53 minutes ago, CaptainMusky said:

IDK, that is a lot of dough to cough up for a buyout. If the CAP increases I think it makes it more palatable, but if it stays flat, I'm not so sure. Don't get me wrong, I want him out of here in the worst way, but I just don't think buying him out at that rate is in the cards. Maybe it will get done, but that is a lot of money IMO to pay a guy to not play that hurts our ability to replace him.

 

Here is what it would take. Might work, but we have 3 guys we need to worry about signing for next year and we will lose someone to Vegas. Maybe it works???

PomBuyout.JPG


Essentially what this means is if we buyout 2 years of Pommers it saves us nothing the first year because we have to spend a million on a guy to replace him. He's lost a few steps but still put up some points this year and is a decent bottom 6 option with some skill. After next year is a whole new story when the buyout doesn't hurt so bad for only 1 year, so is trading him and retaining some $$$ but that might be easier said than done.

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Right, the only way I see them buying him out now is if they replace him with someone they are already paying (in Iowa) making it a wash which was said earlier.

 

I'm just happy it was a well-played game last night and ended in a good result. Much better than playing pretty well or outplaying the Blues and losing.

 

Winning is so much more fun.

 

Its lame that the Wild get the 2PM game Saturday because Chicago MIGHT be playing Saturday. Losers. Ive got a ton of work to do this weekend and I cannot afford to be drinking that early in the day. :-)

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13 minutes ago, CaptainMusky said:

Right, the only way I see them buying him out now is if they replace him with someone they are already paying (in Iowa) making it a wash which was said earlier.

 

 

Give the IA guys a chance...Fletch has been too quick to over pay for vets (many have not panned out) and at the same time stifle the young guys who are worthy of a shot, were worthy of a contract to begin with and are dying at a chance to show they can play just as good as the Poms of the world and don't cost near as much. 

 

We just seem to be stuck in between styles with a speed identity that in the end can't get it done....and without any game changers....I'd like to see them dump as much as they can....even though it was exciting at the time I now believe the Parise/Suter signing has not panned out...neither has been worth $100 million each. $200 Million could have bought us much better plus we started chasing the other pieces needed and Fletch started grasping at straws...making poor decisions...over spending on "has beens", giving up coveted draft choices; and we never really gave a chance for many of the IA guys to show they can play/improve and who are now understandably overlooked....now with bad contracts and w/o drafts choices we are boxed in IMO.

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1 hour ago, Bear55 said:

Well we didn't get swept, need to see another win or two before I believe in any kind of come back, the more convincing the win the better. We need to light them up one game and get in Allen's head, scoring first in this series seems to be the key even though it shouldn't matter. Good teams can dig themselves out of holes when it matters.

Have to say the Blues "4th" line of Reaves Brodz and Upshall are as absolute handful, thank god they can't score.

 

 

Agree on the 4th line and in fact other than Allen it makes me wonder how the heck the Blues played so well down the stretch and even made the playoffs...they look absolutley horrid IMO....other than playing tough/tight...something smells funny with the Blues right now....or we really are as un-playoff capable as I think we are. We certainly should have them thinking..over-thinking hopefully....but I am still waiting for Tara to wake up and Statsny to get into the lineup just to see where the Blues really rank. Wild should have the mojo right now and momentum/confidence can carry you a long way...we shall see.

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1 hour ago, bbfenatic said:

 

Agree on the 4th line and in fact other than Allen it makes me wonder how the heck the Blues played so well down the stretch and even made the playoffs...they look absolutley horrid IMO....other than playing tough/tight...something smells funny with the Blues right now....or we really are as un-playoff capable as I think we are. We certainly should have them thinking..over-thinking hopefully....but I am still waiting for Tara to wake up and Statsny to get into the lineup just to see where the Blues really rank. Wild should have the mojo right now and momentum/confidence can carry you a long way...we shall see.

You cant just look at one team's terrible play in a series like this and not give credit to the team they are playing against for making them look that way. The Wild were the 2nd best scoring team in the league, but suddenly in this series they couldn't get to 2 goals for 3 games. Why was that? The Blues owned the D zone inside and the Wild never got quality second chances. If they didn't score on the first shot, they likely didn't get a second shot.

Flip that and I think the Blues look like they do because the Wild have found their D game again. Scandella who was terrible for much of the season is an absolute stud right now. He was huge last night. I love his game right now. He isn't showing up on stats sheets, but he was a real difference maker last night.

Its been the race to 2 goals in every game thus far and I don't see that changing. I do think that if there was going to be a blowout the most likely team to do it is the Wild. I honestly don't think Allen can keep this up long. Actually that second goal, while it was a VERY well placed shot, should have been saved and certainly the first goal was completely because of a bad bounce or oversight on Allen's part. Plays like that will get into his head. Get a lead early on Saturday and we could be in business for a rout!

2 hours ago, bbfenatic said:

 

Give the IA guys a chance...Fletch has been too quick to over pay for vets (many have not panned out) and at the same time stifle the young guys who are worthy of a shot, were worthy of a contract to begin with and are dying at a chance to show they can play just as good as the Poms of the world and don't cost near as much. 

I agree with this. I was just making a point that I don't think they would go out and find some crusty veteran for any "savings" by buying out Poms. There are guys that deserve more ice time. The trouble is they are getting up there in games now some of them, they almost have to "stick" with the big club or you face issues with them having to clear waivers. They lost Dalpe because of this. So, you are certainly going to have to balance the good with the bad. So far I think Ek has paid off. He is going to be a nice player for us in years to come.

Kunin, and Tuch might be ready to see some serious ice time next year too. Problem all 3 of those guys are Centers primarily. So, someone is going to have to play out of position which isn't an issue I think it actually helps the younger guys to be forced to play wing vs center anyway early on.

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4 hours ago, CaptainMusky said:

 

 

Its lame that the Wild get the 2PM game Saturday because Chicago MIGHT be playing Saturday. Losers. Ive got a ton of work to do this weekend and I cannot afford to be drinking that early in the day. :-)

The hawks are going to get shut out again tonight so they will not be playing.  :grin:

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Have I said how much I love playoff hockey? There are great games every night and it sure beats doing yard work. Thankfully I got most of mine done before the playoffs started. Now its just burning some brush in my campfire ring to clean things up a bit.

 

I am the biggest Preds fan tonight! That Leafs/Caps series is fun to watch too. Edm should rebound after getting destroyed by SJ tonight I think. Certainly wouldn't suck to have McDavid!

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9 hours ago, bbfenatic said:

....even though it was exciting at the time I now believe the Parise/Suter signing has not panned out...neither has been worth $100 million each. 


I think it was a calculated risk we had to take, Suter is worth every penny, just ask Dallas and Winnipeg about needing D, he does so many things so well we probably take him for granted. Parise was never worth that money but we needed him to get Suter. We also made the playoffs every year since they were here, hard to call that not successful. Now if you just take a million away from Parise and give it to Suter those salaries don't look so bad. However 5 years from now they will be just terrible for us, lets hope something good happens between now and then, Parise was already looking like a 3rd liner for much of season, lets hope it was just an injury and not a sign of things to come.

Oh and stupid 2:00 Saturday game, I hope its a blowout one way or the other because I need to be somewhere at 5:00 and the thought of missing the end of a close or OT game makes me want to puke.

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At this point I would not call the Parise and Suter signings successful.  I am looking for Cups, not 5 straight years of getting bounced in the 1st or 2nd round.  Being happy with mediocre playoff appearances isn't a going to get us a Cup.  

 

Glad to see the Hawks get swept!  Will that change the start time for the WIld on Saturday then?

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It would be nice but I doubt it.  The game is on NBC.

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1 hour ago, lungdeflator said:

At this point I would not call the Parise and Suter signings successful.  I am looking for Cups, not 5 straight years of getting bounced in the 1st or 2nd round.  Being happy with mediocre playoff appearances isn't a going to get us a Cup.  

 

Glad to see the Hawks get swept!  Will that change the start time for the WIld on Saturday then?

I get it, but winning the Cup is the hardest trophy in sports. All rounds of the playoffs are best of 7. There are no byes like in NFL, etc. I will say that I am disappointed they haven't made it to the Conference Finals at least following that signing, but I still think the signing was a success. 2 players do not a team make. Without them we wouldn't have been competitive for a while.

I think Parise shouldn't have played in the World Cup. He was coming off a season ending injury, no sense in pushing that and adding a couple more weeks of tough games to his schedule.

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28 minutes ago, CaptainMusky said:

I get it, but winning the Cup is the hardest trophy in sports. All rounds of the playoffs are best of 7. There are no byes like in NFL, etc. I will say that I am disappointed they haven't made it to the Conference Finals at least following that signing, but I still think the signing was a success. 2 players do not a team make. Without them we wouldn't have been competitive for a while.

 

 

But CM...it is just not those 2 players (a mucker and a minutes guy)...plus we spent quite a bit on a good supporting cast around them so not only was it the $200 Million but apparently the "fill-ins" have not been appropriate.  Do you think Parise and Suter's best years are still ahead...I don't think so!

 

It just chaps my a$$ to live with the fact that franchises like Carolina, Dallas, Anaheim, Tampa Bay, Colorado, Dallas, Edm, LA, etc have won Cups and we have not...and will not for the foreseeable future if we continue down this path IMO.  Fletch's "plan" and idea of players is not getting it done...BB made mention right away he needed better players and I think getting Hanzal and White were just as much BB's doing as Fletch's, just too bad that was the only deal we could make with what we had to spend and what draft picks we had to give up and it is Fletch who has us in this position....not to mention the scapegoat firing of Yeo to save his own a$$.

 

Every team only has so much $ and so many draft picks to work with to improve the team....our money is mostly already committed and our draft picks for the most part have been traded away...what a shame. I sure hope Kunin, Ek, Tuch will be playing next year...if they sign Hanzal/White and don't buy out Pom it would be a big mistake IMO

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24 minutes ago, bbfenatic said:

if they sign Hanzal/White

 

I don't see them signing either guy.  They just haven't added much to the team IMO.

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