Which wheel house brand would you buy & why? Not looking for a toy hauler. Steel or Aluminum frame. Want a rubber floor

[Moon Lake Refuge]

8 minutes ago, walleye44 said:

It sounds like the ice castle mechanical issues have been solved & fixed over the years. Can you be more specific to what the mechanical issues are now a days? Thanks.

In my vast knowledge and experience(that I could probably fit on a post card) I have heard about issues with every brand.  And I have heard fantastic things about every brand.  The one reoccuring thing I have heard about Ice castle is the finish isn't quite as nice.  Split boards sometimes, nail holes don't line up.  Gaps between furniture.  If those things don't bother you go for it.  They make a nice house.  Many brands have definitely had issues in the past but imo one thing you have to keep in mind is you are driving a house down the road, over snow banks, down steep landings and best case scenario you are still putting tremendous strain on the trailer.  There are going to be issues with some people.  You don't necessarily know if a guy that busted an axle did it at 40 mph coming up a landing.  They wouldn't likely be in business if they weren't doing something right.  Number one thing that a lot of people miss out on is honestly getting out and sitting in every house out there.  Spend the time, it will be well worth it to not go sit in a buddies house in a year and know you screwed up on the brand or layout.

[walleye44]

1 hour ago, Moon Lake Refuge said:

In my vast knowledge and experience(that I could probably fit on a post card) I have heard about issues with every brand.  And I have heard fantastic things about every brand.  The one reoccuring thing I have heard about Ice castle is the finish isn't quite as nice.  Split boards sometimes, nail holes don't line up.  Gaps between furniture.  If those things don't bother you go for it.  They make a nice house.  Many brands have definitely had issues in the past but imo one thing you have to keep in mind is you are driving a house down the road, over snow banks, down steep landings and best case scenario you are still putting tremendous strain on the trailer.  There are going to be issues with some people.  You don't necessarily know if a guy that busted an axle did it at 40 mph coming up a landing.  They wouldn't likely be in business if they weren't doing something right.  Number one thing that a lot of people miss out on is honestly getting out and sitting in every house out there.  Spend the time, it will be well worth it to not go sit in a buddies house in a year and know you screwed up on the brand or layout.

True. I will be looking at the shows, but just wanted some extra knowledge ahead of time. You never know when a great deal pops up. Thanks.

[Lip_Ripper Guy]

5 hours ago, walleye44 said:

It sounds like the ice castle mechanical issues have been solved & fixed over the years. Can you be more specific to what the mechanical issues are now a days? Thanks.

Ice Castle absolutely has not fixed their issues.  I was one who thought they did, and I'm sure I have posts about them getting better.  I personally know 3 guys who have 2015 and 2016 houses.  They have had windows break from frame flex, siding buckle and split, HappiJac beds fall off the wall (all 3), roof leaks, tires blow (first trip) from a cockeyed axle, black water tank flow on the floor of the house, all sorts of lights not working, not to mention the usual fit and finish issues they are known for.  

If you really want to see what they are all about, follow their owner's group page on Facebook.  

[Moon Lake Refuge]

Well I stand corrected then.  Just wait a few years and buy LRG's next house!!

[YettiStyle]

I have never owned (and never will own) and Ice Castle but have experienced the same thing as LRG even with the newer Ice Castles.  Such things as axel stubs snapping off, thin guage braces sheering, HappiJac issues, leaks, and even a furnace blowing exhaust back into the shack...  Now some of these issues can be mitigated by just treating your shack with a little bit more caution.  Going 55mph instead of 80mph on the interstate and 5-10mph instead of 20+ on the ice makes a big difference to how much wear and tear you're going to experience. 

Like LRG said, there is a whole group on Facebook called "ice castle owners group (ICOG)".  The group is closed and you need to have an Ice Castle to join but if you have a picture or two of a castle on your profile when you try joining they may let you in.  There are plenty of people that will support the brand but you will also see all the horror stories, upgrades, and fixes.  Still, Ice Castles are a more affordable way to get started in the ice shack addiction just as long as you don't have any major breakdowns. 

[Chaws]

On 8/5/2016 at 11:25 PM, slammer said:

Chaws did you see one locally or did you go down to Litch to see it?  I'm thinking about hopping on the scooter and running down there to have a look at them.

I seen them go through a bunch of stuff at the Ice Show in St Paul.

 

On 8/6/2016 at 9:16 AM, Moon Lake Refuge said:

Looks like no spray foam on that brand?  1/2 inch insulation in the floor seems a little light.

They'll custom the house for you too meaning they'll spray it if you want. Being in houses that are made with properly cut and taped insulation board and spray foam, there isn't much of any difference between the two. Labor vs cost is basically where it comes down to. If you're building the frame and making it good and square and you have a table saw set up to rip sheets of foam board to use as much as possible, foam board will win in the end. Spray form is great for any inconsistencies.

[Moon Lake Refuge]

16 minutes ago, Chaws said:

I seen them go through a bunch of stuff at the Ice Show in St Paul.

 

They'll custom the house for you too meaning they'll spray it if you want. Being in houses that are made with properly cut and taped insulation board and spray foam, there isn't much of any difference between the two. Labor vs cost is basically where it comes down to. If you're building the frame and making it good and square and you have a table saw set up to rip sheets of foam board to use as much as possible, foam board will win in the end. Spray form is great for any inconsistencies.

There is definitely a structural difference between the two with sprayfoam being so rigid, and spray foam provides a higher R Value.  1/2 inch in the floor of foamboard vs 2-3 inches of spray foam will make a difference in heating.

[Chaws]

2 minutes ago, Moon Lake Refuge said:

There is definitely a structural difference between the two with sprayfoam being so rigid, and spray foam provides a higher R Value.  1/2 inch in the floor of foamboard vs 2-3 inches of spray foam will make a difference in heating.

Structurally if you use 2x2 walls vs the aluminum walls like Firebrand or Black Bear, yes you'll see structural rigidity go up with spray foam in the 2x2 build but probably not with aluminum or steel walls where they're built 16 or 20" OC. And of course a half inch of foam vs 2-3" of spray foam is going to be different, it's not even a direct comparisons, apples vs oranges. Put in 2-3" of foam board and your R value is going to be almost identical to sprayed.

[Moon Lake Refuge]

Just now, Chaws said:

Structurally if you use 2x2 walls vs the aluminum walls like Firebrand or Black Bear, yes you'll see structural rigidity go up with spray foam in the 2x2 build but probably not with aluminum or steel walls where they're built 16 or 20" OC. And of course a half inch of foam vs 2-3" of spray foam is going to be different, it's not even a direct comparisons, apples vs oranges. Put in 2-3" of foam board and your R value is going to be almost identical to sprayed.

Even with steel walls it solidify's quite a bit, and apples to apples sprayfoam has a higher r value per inch.  May not be enough to matter to some but when on the ice and resources aren't infinite, I guess I would prefer a couple bucks extra up front to save on time and money in the long run.

[Chaws]

24 minutes ago, Moon Lake Refuge said:

Even with steel walls it solidify's quite a bit, and apples to apples sprayfoam has a higher r value per inch.  May not be enough to matter to some but when on the ice and resources aren't infinite, I guess I would prefer a couple bucks extra up front to save on time and money in the long run.

I think you missed the part in my first comment where you quoted me form that said they'd spray it if you wanted it. Pretty sure Firebrand and Yetti also only use foam board unless you finish it out yourself as just a shell. Sometimes the extra couple thousand to spray houses aren't what people want. If the house is built strong and correctly, they shouldn't need to have sprayed walls. There's thousands of enclosed trailers being pulled down the road every day that are built with less structural integrity than even Ice Castles that aren't spray foamed and they survive a long time. Hell, I've pulled a number of enclosed trailers through countless tilled fields in the fall and into winter and they're still in one piece.

[Lip_Ripper Guy]

10 hours ago, Chaws said:

I think you missed the part in my first comment where you quoted me form that said they'd spray it if you wanted it. Pretty sure Firebrand and Yetti also only use foam board unless you finish it out yourself as just a shell. Sometimes the extra couple thousand to spray houses aren't what people want. If the house is built strong and correctly, they shouldn't need to have sprayed walls. There's thousands of enclosed trailers being pulled down the road every day that are built with less structural integrity than even Ice Castles that aren't spray foamed and they survive a long time. Hell, I've pulled a number of enclosed trailers through countless tilled fields in the fall and into winter and they're still in one piece.

Honestly Chaws, I mean no offense, but when I read these posts regarding spray foam vs board, I can't help but think you either have an agenda or haven't seen a spray foamed house.  When everything is said and done, there is ZERO comparison between spray foam and board foam, other than similar claimed R value.    

Study up on R value and you'll find that is is but one small piece of the puzzle when it comes to insulation and comfort.  Tape, can foam, caulk, and everything else do nothing to make it "just as good as" spray foam when it comes to air leakage, condensation, structural rigidity, etc. 

And I've done the math on board foam vs spray on this site numerous times...if there is any comparison, spray foam is cheaper.  I'll do the math for you again if you'd like.  

 

  

[Chaws]

Some serious reading comprehension failures going on around here. Did I say that foam board was equal to spray foam when it comes to structural strength. No. Did I say that foam board was of better R value than spray foam. No. It's simply a point in which people should consider when buying a house or building a house for costs involved. If spray foam is such an amazing thing, which it definitely provides a benefit, then all of the other houses out there much be junk because they just have foam board in the walls and floors. If you want to spray foam for some of that benefit purely for the insulation value, go for it, but there can't be enough cost benefit by having compared to foam board unless you're specifically doing it because the build strength isn't enough on its own.

[EricR]

On ‎8‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 11:47 AM, Chaws said:

I think you missed the part in my first comment where you quoted me form that said they'd spray it if you wanted it. Pretty sure Firebrand and Yetti also only use foam board unless you finish it out yourself as just a shell. Sometimes the extra couple thousand to spray houses aren't what people want. If the house is built strong and correctly, they shouldn't need to have sprayed walls. There's thousands of enclosed trailers being pulled down the road every day that are built with less structural integrity than even Ice Castles that aren't spray foamed and they survive a long time. Hell, I've pulled a number of enclosed trailers through countless tilled fields in the fall and into winter and they're still in one piece.

Firebrand as of the fall of 2015 has been spray foaming all finished houses.    (I manage the finishing shop for those of you wondering on my knowledge of the Firebrand process)   If you have any other questions concerning them, I would be happy to answer anything I can for you as well.