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jbell1981

Cancer Treatment from a Witch Doctor

235 posts in this topic

Just to be clear, I am adamantly against Homeopathic "Medicine" which I refer to as Witch Doctors and will not be convinced their methods have any merit or will work other than having a placebo effect on minor ailments. 

So here is the situation. My mother-in-law (MIL) was recently diagnosed with Non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. It was found in several places after doing a scan. The doctor recommended that she have 5-6 courses of chemo over 6 months to treat it which he indicated that has an 80% success rate. My MIL was on board with this as is my wife and her brother. My wife's 2 sisters however are not. They are homeopathy nuts, one of which take it to extreme levels (no real doctors for her or her kids, anti-vax, etc). My MIL is not all quite there and is just going to do what people tell her, she won't make her own informed decisions and I don't think is fully aware of what's going on or at least how serious it is. 

My MIL had an appointment today to get something inserted into her chest (forgot what its call) for the chemo courses. She has appointments schedule for next week for an echo-cardiogram (which I guess is standard before starting chemo) and a bone marrow extraction surgery to make sure the cancer hasn't spread to the bone marrow. She also had her first rounds of chemo scheduled. Well the sisters canceled her appointment for today and brought her to see their witch doctor (WD). The WD and them convinced her to cancel her chemo appointments and to start their homeopathic treatment (I don't know what it consists of and really don't care). She said she is going to try this and see how it works for a few months. The WD, who has never seen my MIL before, said that she got the cancer by eating a piece of chicken laced with arsenic 5 months ago. The WD also told them how many cancer cells are in her body and that it has already spread to her bone marrow. All this was diagnosed from a office visit this morning with no tests done. (I don't know how these quacks can get away with this, but that's a different subject). 

My wife's brother isn't aware what has happened today yet (my wife can't get a hold of him) but they are holding a family meeting tonight to tell him formally what the plan is. He and my wife were very clear after meeting with the real doctor that they are not to involve a WD, and at the time my MIL agreed but again she is impressionable and can be swayed easily for no rational reason. 

My wife is (rightly) worried that wasting a couple months with the WD is going to allow more cancer to develop and make it harder to treat later and the 80% sucess rate that there is now will be greatly reduced. 

So the reason for posting all of this here is to see if any of you have been involved in any similar situations, where waiting made the cancer worse after the homeopathic treatments and harder to treat with chemo. I am basically hoping that other peoples horror stories can scare her into making the right decision. As sad as that is, it might be the only way to get her to do the smart thing. 

Edited by jbell1981

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I don't have a specific example of how waiting to get treatment had dramatic and negative outcomes but waiting to start treatment is always going to put the person at greater risk as I'm sure you are well aware of.  

One thought I had is how is treatment getting paid for?  If you go through the traditional medical route I assume there is some form of insurance picking up the bulk of the costs.  What if she goes with the Witch Doctor approach?  Is that still covered by insurance?  What sort of out of pocket costs are going to be associated with that and who pays for it?  

If the battle against the WD mumbo jumbo starts to look like a losing battle you could try to appeal to her survival instinct.  Ask her whether she wants the absolute best chance to survive.  Most people will probably say they want the best odds.  If that is the case with her you could offer her the suggestion to use both methods (traditional treatment and the voodoo magic).  Let her go through both treatment programs.  I doubt the energy crystals, aroma therapy, and the hot stone treatments the WD offers will conflict with the chemo therapy but maybe ask the real DR just in case.  If she thinks the alternative medicine stuff helps even if its really just the chemo doing the work then oh well, at least she's in a positive mental place even if delusional.  The main thing is that she gets healthy.  If the chemo works and the crazy sisters claim victory on behalf of the WD then so be it, at least your MIL will be alive and healthy.  

The only other thing i can think of that might be an option is some sort of health care directive or whatever it would be called that states who can make medical decisions on behalf of your MIL.  If she is in a diminished mental state its probably important for her to have something like that put together.  If you can get some sort of document on file that says that your MIL's children are the only ones that can make medical decisions on behalf of your MIL that might block the power of the crazy sisters.  I'm not well versed in the inner workings off all that stuff and what exactly you'd have to have done to make this possible but it might be something to look into.  It will be more and more important as her health declines.  It may get to a point she is not able to make any decision for herself or take any advice and will need someone to call all the shots.  You got to find a way to make sure its not the sisters.    

Hope it all works out.  Its a tough situation for sure.  

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Thanks for the response. 

I wasn't very clear, but the crazy sisters are my wife's crazy sisters. So there are 4 siblings, my wife and her brother that want to go the rational route and the the other 2 who want to use the voodoo magic. 

I have no idea about the insurance. She doesn't work and is on medicare insurance so I don't know what is all covered. But she doesn't have much money so anything with the WD that is not covered I assume is being paid by the sisters. 

The sisters won't budge on the chemo and convinced her, at least for now, that she shouldn't do it. They don't believe chemo should be used since it's basically poisoning your body. Convincing the MIL to do both may be a possibility but the sisters will be fighting the whole way. 

I told my wife that at the family meeting tonight to insist that  she at least see the normal doctor again and to explain to him the plan and maybe he would be able to talk some sense into her. 

LindellProStaf likes this

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Ah gotcha, that does make it a little harder. 

If she still insists on going the WD route she should for sure go have one more sit down with the DR.  Have her be the one who tells the DR why she is ignoring his advice and her rationale for going the WD route.  Don't let the other sisters speak for her and don't let your wife or the brother speak for her.  Let her speak for herself if at all possible and let her see if she can rationalize her decision to the DR.  Maybe that will make her think twice about what she is doing. In the end its going to be her decision, she'll get input from both sides but neither side can force her to do anything.  

The problem with her trying things with the WD for a few months is how will she know if things have gotten better or worse?  You can't trust the WD to tell her in 3 months that she's cured or things have gotten worse since he has no real clue.  Will she go back to the real DR for another scan to see if there was progress or if things have gotten worse?  If so will she or the sisters believe the real DR?  Once you go the alternative medicine route it seems to be a rabbit hole that's hard to escape. 

If she does go with the WD at the very least insist that she keep seeing her real doctor to get progress reports on how the treatments are working and agree that those are the reports that matter and not what the WD says.

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Science!

Seriously, Non-Hodgkin's Lymphoma is one of the most treatable forms of cancer.

Yes, chemo sucks, but death sucks more. 

LindellProStaf and BoxMN like this

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That's too bad.  I would attempt to get law enforcement involved.  It appears that the homeopath may well be in violation of the law. 

They can be sued, and the state has, for fraud and deception.   On the other hand, it might be more difficult thanks to Jesse and other whackos (search MN Chapter 146A)

Note that most of these whackos are also anti-Vaccination. 

LindellProStaf likes this

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10 minutes ago, delcecchi said:

That's too bad.  I would attempt to get law enforcement involved.  It appears that the homeopath may well be in violation of the law.

They can be sued, and the state has, for fraud and deception.   On the other hand, it might be more difficult thanks to Jesse and other whackos (search MN Chapter 146A)

Note that most of these whackos are also anti-Vaccination.

You know who's going to show up now that you said that! ;)

LindellProStaf likes this

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It will be interesting to see who, if anyone, defends a homeopath who claims they can cure cancer.   And he may also have crossed the line allowed by the Minnesota alternative health care law.  

And the thing that they install for the chemo could be a central line.

Quote

An intravenous central line is a kind of intravenous (IV) line used to give medicines and fluids. It is a thin, soft, plastic tube called a catheter that is inserted through the skin and into a vein. It is usually put in the neck or chest just below the collarbone. Sometimes it is put in the arm.

 

Edited by delcecchi

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She is 67. She doesn't have anything officially diagnosed but I am fairly certain that if she had a psych evaluation something would be found. I don't know a good way to describe her but something is definitely off.  She did spend a small amount of time in an institution but that was 30 years ago. My wife don't talk about it much and I don't press the issue. She despises doctors, it took quite a bit of effort just to get her in for a physical and some routine testing this spring, which ultimately found the cancer. prior to this I don't know that she has been to a doctor in the 15 years I have known her. She has lived with us since my father in law passed in 2005. 

After the family meeting last night (just the siblings and MIL, myself and the other in-laws were not present) it seems that she is convinced what the alternative way is the way to go despite what my wife and her brother think. 2 of my MIL's sister (wife's aunts) have been through breast cancer and chemo and are also trying to convince her to do the proven route without any luck. It appears as though my wife and her brother are not going to pursue it any more after last night and let her do what she wants. She said she is going to try the alternative route for 1 month and re-evaluate after that. 

I wouldn't let it go so easily but she is not my mother and apparently my opinion has little if any value. 

Thanks for all the replies.

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I think that this is merely a "family situation" except this one involves the life of your MIL.  Unlike normal family issues regarding property or who took the fine china after someone passed away this one is worthy of burning bridges if need be.  If that means an attorney, law enforcement, or some other idea so be it.  The other family members believe what they believe but I'd do any underhanded thing to get the MIL the chemo and the course of action the MD suggests.  

My wife has an Aunt that's pretty nice, seems normal, and over the years has literally worn the tin foil hat from time to time.  She can tell us in a straight face why she wears it and we should too.  She believes it.  That's your family members.  If they want to do in on themselves or regarding non life threatening matters who cares.  On this one do whatever you can to get them out of the picture.  Good luck to you and your mother in law.

Edited by leechlake

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57 minutes ago, jbell1981 said:

. She said she is going to try the alternative route for 1 month and re-evaluate after that. 

 

How is she going to re-evaluate?  Is she going to go back to the real DR for another scan or is she going to evaluate progress solely on the word of the Witch Dr?  I'm guessing she'll get 2 very different opinions from those 2 sources.

I don't know if it really matters but that fact that your MIL lives with you feels like it should give a little more weight to your opinions.  After all you and your wife are going to be the ones helping her through the daily grind day in and day out. You'll have front row seats to the effects of the cancer.  I hope the other sisters are willing to put in the time and not leave all of that care up to you are your wife. 

This is one tough situation though and I'm sorry you are the family is having to deal with it.  In the end your MIL is an adult and seems to be making a choice for herself.  You said she hates doctors and hasn't been to one in the 15 years you've known her.  That seems to fall in line with the decision to go the alternative medicine route.  She may have wanted to go that route all along but she may have needed your wifes sisters to help give her the voice to say so.  If she is truly making the decision for herself and its what she really wants I'm not sure there is much you can do or even should do. However, if you truly think she is not able to make an informed decision for herself then it might be time to step in with extra measures.

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9 minutes ago, nofishfisherman said:

How is she going to re-evaluate?  Is she going to go back to the real DR for another scan or is she going to evaluate progress solely on the word of the Witch Dr?  I'm guessing she'll get 2 very different opinions from those 2 sources.

 

I have no idea. No one seems to be able to answer this questions. 

9 minutes ago, nofishfisherman said:

 

I don't know if it really matters but that fact that your MIL lives with you feels like it should give a little more weight to your opinions.  After all you and your wife are going to be the ones helping her through the daily grind day in and day out. You'll have front row seats to the effects of the cancer.  I hope the other sisters are willing to put in the time and not leave all of that care up to you are your wife. 

Actually she is moving into one my wife's sisters houses next weekend. This decision was made when planning for the chemo. Our house (3 kids, lots of pets) was considered to hectic and to great of a chance to get her sick with a depleted immune system. This sister in law was originally seemed on board with the chemo but it appears that was an act. Her house is more stable and a better place to get some peace and quiet during the chemo, which we agreed with. However she is still moving forward with moving even though she isn't doing the chemo, at least for now. 

Edited by jbell1981

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Then you may have to just let it go.  Sometimes a battle is unwinnable and this might be one of those times.   She is an adult and you have limited ability to change anything, other than perhaps getting the Practitioner prosecuted.  Legally she gets to make her own decisions. 

Sad, very sad. 

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I would suggest a third opinion, but if she had a chemical lobotomy she might be easier to control.

 

The lobotomy in many cases either turned them into a vegetable or simply made them more docile, passive, and easy to control—often much less intelligent as well. Many of the doctors took this as being “good progress” because they didn’t know how else to treat severely mentally ill patients. During the days of the lobotomy, unless it killed someone they considered all of the permanent brain damage be a negative side effect of the treatment.

Edited by swamptiger

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So this line up is supposed to rid her of cancer somehow. The "doctor" recommending this is a chiropractor.:crazy:

20160417_122749.jpg

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Ask DrJuice.  He is the defender of all things Chiropractic. 

But, to put words in his mouth, he would say "it will improve her general health and boost her immune system so she can fight off the disease naturally"  :crazy:

He will also tell you I am in the pocket of big medicine, and big pharma who have bad motives in their business and their treatments.  

Edited by delcecchi

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Del,

Its good to know you think of me so much.  Have a nice day!

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DrJuice, are you a chiropractor? Do you believe this list of "medicine" will get rid of her cancer? Do you believe it will do better than the 80+% the chemo has of getting rid of it?

I would really like to know if you believe this is a good course of treatment and why.

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Probably just like you, I dont know much about Cancer, funny thing is neither does the guy giving up the Chemo.  He just knows the radiation may destroy the tissue.  I bet the chiro, with no knowledge, just grabbed his pen and started writing out that program.  If you'd like to know, good for you, look up what the benefits are, you'll get to put your own answer together than what some guy on a fishing page has to say.

 

jbell, I'm just not a bias simpleton.  

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14 minutes ago, DrJuice1980 said:

jbell, I'm just not a bias simpleton.  

So I am? I refuse to believe that a list of stuff I can find at the grocery store will rid the body of cancer. If that were the case we would have a cilantro and creeper shortage. If that make me a bias simpleton then so be it. 

 

Are you a chiropractor? Do you prescribe any of these items for other ailments? Do you believe they work?

Edited by jbell1981

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I've never heard of most of things on the list.  I did a little searching just out of curiosity.  Seems like each one has it own special function (reduce heavy metals, help with inflammation, digestive health, etc).  All of the sites selling or reviewing the product say the products MAY help with certain issues.  I could only find real research done on one of the items on the list and that research basically came to the conclusion that the product MAY help but wasn't conclusive.

Honestly, I'm guessing some of that stuff might do what it claims to some extent its just far from proven.  If you think about it a lot of our current traditional medicines are derived from natural elements and work very well so its possible these may also work to some degree.

The big question is do these cure cancer. I think the answer to that is no one really knows for sure and if they do I'm guessing results probably vary widely depending on the type of cancer and the individual patient.  I think the only thing that is safe to say is that this is not a sure fire cure.  If it were the secret would have gotten out long ago.  There would be more testing and pharmaceutical companies would be looking for ways to cash in on the cure.

You just have to ask yourself are you willing to gamble on an unproven course of action that has little more than anecdotal evidence to back it up or do you want to go with the proven course of action that has years of documented research supporting it.  If it were me fighting cancer I'd go the proven route and give myself the 80% chance.  I then might look at adding some homeopathic treatment options in conjunction with my traditional treatments but I would do so by including my doctor in that plan.  My thoughts are that I'd want to do absolutely everything in my power to get better.  Maybe the homeopathic stuff is a bunch of voodoo mumbo jumbo but even if it only ups my odds by 1% I'll take it.  However, I can't imagine going the route of doing nothing but the homeopathic stuff.  I'm really trying not to be biased here but if I had my life on the line I'd have to put my life in the hands of the treatment option that has the most evidence supporting its effectiveness. Doing anything else seems too risky and I don't think I could look my wife and daughter in the eye and tell them I'm rejecting the evidence based option and going the unproven route unless there was literally no other choice. 

 

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I know a guy who was diagnosed by a conventional doctor with some sort of internal cancer back in the mid-1970's.  They made a vertical incision the full length of his abdomen, went in and took a look, and sewed him back up again.  Then basically proceeded to tell him there wasn't any hope for him.

Being out of conventional options, he went through some sort of therapy involving apricot pits.  And he's still alive and well today.  Did the apricot pits cure him?  I really don't have a clue.

But in general, I would put more stock in conventional medicine for stopping or arresting cancer than alternative remedies.  From what I've seen, I'm not completely convinced anyone has a real cure.

 

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7 minutes ago, swamptiger said:

.  From what I've seen, I'm not completely convinced anyone has a real cure.

 

I think thats probably true.  There certainly isn't anything thats 100&% effective and sometimes they are just guessing.  My grandfather was given 6 months to live with no real treatment options left available.  They sent him home and he went on to live another 9 years and for the bulk of that time he lived a fairly normal life with no real complications.

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I know of two other guys who went to Mexico for cancer treatment, being out of conventional options.  One survived, the other died.  The one who survived swears it saved his life.  This treatment involved vitamins, herbal concoctions, and coffee enemas.

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Grab the apricots!!! Laetrile is back!!!!!!!!!!

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