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ClownColor

Bank Bailout (Iceland style)

15 posts in this topic

Too big to fail, no, too many politicians on payroll to fail. Worst is, we voted for the same politicians that pulled that stunt.  We as a country are just too stupid to see just how bad they are screwing us.  OH it isn't my guy, those bailouts were voted for by both the reps and the dems. The both took us to the cleaners.  I don't have time to do the research, but I doubt many of them lost their seats over the fiasco.

 

From Politifact.

Quote

PolitiFact Oregon went straight to the voting records to check this claim.

As it turns out, the House actually had to vote twice for the particular bill in which TARP was included. The first vote was on Sept. 29, 2008. The legislation failed to move, though, with 205 representatives voting in favor and 228 against. Of those who voted for the the passage, 140 were Democrats and 65 were Republicans.

A few days later, with the economy worsening, the bill got a second life when Senate members took a completely unrelated piece of legislation that hadn’t much moved anywhere for months and stuffed it with the bailout language. The new bill passedthe Senate on Oct. 1, 2008. On that day, 39 Democrats, 34 Republicans and one Independent voted in favor of the legislation. So, Schrader is wrong there.

 

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17 hours ago, ClownColor said:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/iceland-not-too-big-to-jail/

God, I wish America's people would have fought for this...and look, seems like Iceland is doing fine since the collapse. GIVE US OUR BILLIONS BACK!

I don't know if bailing out the American banks was the right thing, but using results in Iceland to advocate for policy in the US seems a stretch.  The institutions involved had quite different places in the World and American economy.  

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18 hours ago, ClownColor said:

 GIVE US OUR BILLIONS BACK!

I believe the U.S. government closed the books on TARP back in 2014 and made $15 billion dollars in profit. The TARP program made good money off the banks. The auto bailout was the one big money loser for TARP, which is where it lost about $9.2 billion. If you want your money back don't point the finger at the banks, point it at GM and Chrysler.

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2 hours ago, delcecchi said:

I don't know if bailing out the American banks was the right thing, but using results in Iceland to advocate for policy in the US seems a stretch.  The institutions involved had quite different places in the World and American economy.  

Sure, it's not identical but the problem was fixed in Iceland even by sending them to prison. I'm sure if we did the same here, instead of giving them more money, smarter and better businesses would have moved in and taken over. Wasn't it ING that gave there executives huge bonuses with the stimulus money? And wasn't until it made headlines that they "decided" to give it back? What did the ballout teach Americans? What did  sentencing executives in Iceland teach them? I bet America will have a repeat occurrence while Iceland will make better decisions moving forward.  

So yeah, it may be hard to compare them both but what comes of the results is what will play an impact on the future of both countries...

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Unfortunately nearly every time a banker or investment guy goes on trial, they get acquitted.   It's that darn proof thing.  Seems like some of the stuff ought to be against the law, but it doesn't seem so.

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5 hours ago, rundrave said:

I believe the U.S. government closed the books on TARP back in 2014 and made $15 billion dollars in profit. The TARP program made good money off the banks. The auto bailout was the one big money loser for TARP, which is where it lost about $9.2 billion. If you want your money back don't point the finger at the banks, point it at GM and Chrysler.

 

So why doesn't Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac start paying their investors back?

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/08/20/fannie-mae-and-freddie-mac-have-now-paid-taxpayers.aspx

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Nobody made them take the deal.  They could have liquidated instead...   :)   Just like getting a loan from uncle Guido.    Pay the vig.  

Get a govenment guarantee and use it to make big money,  better be right. 

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56 minutes ago, delcecchi said:

Nobody made them take the deal.  They could have liquidated instead...   :)   Just like getting a loan from uncle Guido.    Pay the vig.  

Get a govenment guarantee and use it to make big money,  better be right. 

 

Did the investors have an option?

Besides using the stock for TP, I mean.

Edited by swamptiger

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4 hours ago, delcecchi said:

Unfortunately nearly every time a banker or investment guy goes on trial, they get acquitted.   It's that darn proof thing.  Seems like some of the stuff ought to be against the law, but it doesn't seem so.

Bernie Madoff, oh you said nearly! ;)

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4 hours ago, leech~~ said:

Bernie Madoff, oh you said nearly! ;)

Steve Cohen.   (not actually a trial.  They didn't get to him.)

And check out this article from Forbes....

http://www.forbes.com/sites/walterpavlo/2015/04/06/the-newmanchiasson-insider-trading-decision-begins-to-right-some-wrongs/#6c7beb4e2198

In July 2013, Anthony Chiasson and Todd Newman were supposed to be reporting to federal prison to begin serving sentences of 78 and 54 months respectively.  They had been convicted of insider trading and had asked U.S. District Judge Richard Sullivan to be allowed to remain free while their appeals were heard by the 2nd Circuit.  Their reasoning was that they believed Judge Sullivan had erred in instructions he gave the jury and that  an appeals court would see things their way, overturning the guilty verdict.  Judge Sullivan denied their request.  Days from reporting to prison, the 2nd Circuit granted them their freedom during the appeals process.  On December 10 2014, the 2nd Circuit overturned the convictions of the men, and on Friday the government’s quest to have that decision overturned, by asking for an en banc hearing, was denied.

The Newman decision will have an affect on numerous current cases, including that of former SAC Capital portfolio manager Michael Steinberg.  Steinberg was sentenced to 36 months in prison on similar charges and his conviction is most likely going to be overturned as a result.

Even the guilty pleas have started to be reversed.  Earlier this year the pleas of a four individuals involved in an IBM insider trading case were tossed and it is unlikely that a 5th will not go to trial.  One of those guilty pleas was from Trent Martin who was extradited from Hong Kong after the U.S. put out an Interpol alert on him.  Martin is an Australian citizen.  A lot of resources have been thrown at these cases and now they are falling apart.

Michael Kimelman filed a motion  in March to have his conviction overturned (better late than never since he has already served his prison term) based on the Newman decision.   Doug Whitman, who is currently in prison did the same.  Oh, and Rajat Gupta is trying to use the the case to help him win his freedom.

While there is hope for others, the lives of Chiasson/Newman have been on hold since their firms, Level Global and Diamondback, were raided by windbreaker-wearing FBI agents in November 2010.  Business Insider covered the breaking news of the raid which had the appearance of a modern day witch hunt.  They were followed by white-collar paparazzi as they looked for the photo shot that would deliver the image that would best fit the story that had been written … smug, disappointed, arrogant, sad.  Their firms were fined and closed as a result.  Neither has worked since the raid four and half years ago.  So now they are free … thanks for playing.

Insider trading laws have been interpreted by the federal courts since there is no law against it.  In the case of Newman/Chiasson, they went a long way in defining what insider trading was NOT.  Sadly, they had to endure millions in legal fees, loss of their reputation, humiliation and denials that were met with skepticism by media that believed they were guilty of “something.”

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Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world.

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