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Big Dave2

New Orleans votes to remove Confederate, Civil War monuments

48 posts in this topic

New Orleans votes to remove Confederate, Civil War monuments

By Ben Brumfield and Ralph Ellis, CNN

 

Updated 8:38 PM ET, Thu December 17, 2015 | Video Source: WVUE

 
 
 
 
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Story highlights

  •  The city's mayor says the vote was "a courageous decision"
  • New Orleans City Council votes 6-1 to remove three statues and one obelisk
  • A majority of council members introduced the proposal at the mayor's request

(CNN)A large crowd broke into cheers Thursday after the New Orleans City Council voted to remove four monuments to the Confederacy from prominent places in the city.

The 6-1 vote means officials will take down statues of Gens. Robert E. Lee, P.G.T. Beauregard and Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederacy. An obelisk dedicated to the Battle of Liberty Place will also go.

It's one of the strongest gestures yet by an American city to remove symbols of Confederate history, following a trend in many Southern states to take down the Confederate battle flag.

Historic societies in the 300-year-old city supported the removal of the monuments, and the proposal was introduced by a majority of City Council members.

 
New Orleans' mayor wants Confederate monuments removed
 
 
 

 

 

 
 
 
 

 

New Orleans' mayor wants Confederate monuments removed 02:21

Mayor Mitch Landrieu described the move as a "courageous decision to turn a page on our divisive past and chart the course for a more inclusive future."

Council member Nadine Ramsey said New Orleans needed to stop living "underneath the shadows" of monuments to people who supported slavery.

"We need not honor these individuals and moments from the past that do not meet our standards of decency, equality and nondiscrimination," she said.

Council member Stacy Head cast the only vote against taking down the monuments, saying the action would create more division and not solve the city's real problems.

"It will not improve the socioeconomic balance of the city," she said. "If it would make the city more color blind, if it would create more balance, I would sacrifice almost any physical object to get us to that point."

 

Charleston slayings were a tipping point

 

 
Charleston church shooting
 
 
17 photos: Charleston church shooting
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
In this image from the video uplink from the detention center to the courtroom, Dylann Roof appears at a bond hearing Friday, June 19, in South Carolina. Roof is charged with nine counts of murder and firearms charges in the shooting deaths at Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston, South Carolina on June 17.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
In this image from the video uplink from the detention center to the courtroom, Dylann Roof appears at a bond hearing Friday, June 19, in South Carolina. Roof is charged with nine counts of murder and firearms charges in the shooting deaths at Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston, South Carolina on June 17.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Video detention center coutroom Charleston shooter
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MUG SHOT Dylann Storm Roof
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Landrieu said the church slayings in Charleston, South Carolina, moved him to take action.

He'd been thinking about having the symbols of the Confederacy removed for about a year, when a white gunman in South Carolina massacred black worshippers at Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal on June 17. Dylann Roof, the shooter, venerated the Confederate battle flag. And soon after the shooting,calls to remove it from that state's Capitol grounds intensified.

 
Evolution of the Confederate flag
 
 
6 photos: Evolution of the Confederate flag
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
A decade after the end of the Civil War, a veteran of the Confederate States of America examines a Union water bottle in front of a Confederate flag in 1875. Here's a look at the evolution of that flag:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
A decade after the end of the Civil War, a veteran of the Confederate States of America examines a Union water bottle in front of a Confederate flag in 1875. Here's a look at the evolution of that flag:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
confederate battle flag 1875
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A week later, Landrieu announced the planned ordinance.

He addressed the City Council on Thursday, saying that New Orleans has many monuments, but he wanted these four removed because they are the most important.

"This is the right thing to do at the right time," Landrieu said.

"As we approach the Tricentennial, New Orleanians have the power and the right to correct historical wrongs and move the City forward. The ties that bind us together as a city are stronger than what keeps us apart," he said, according to a City Hall news release.

 

Monuments called 'nuisances'

 

The ordinance approved by the council declares the Confederate monuments "nuisances" and called for them to be removed. The statues are unconstitutional, said the proposed ordinance marked Calendar No. 31,082.

A monument to Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederacy, is one of four monuments called a "nuisance" by the ordinance the New Orleans City Council approved
 
A monument to Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederacy, is one of four monuments called a "nuisance" by the ordinance the New Orleans City Council approved

"They honor, praise, or foster ideologies which are in conflict with the requirements of equal protection for citizens as provided by the constitution and laws of the United States, the state, or the laws of the city and suggests the supremacy of one ethnic, religious, or racial group over another."

 

Monument supporters say it's not about race

 

In July, the city called for 60 days of public meetings to review the proposed ordinance.

Landrieu requested the vote to banish specters of racism. But opponents of the plan steered away from any racial argument.

Keeping the figures of the Confederacy was not about preserving racial injustice, they said, but about honoring figures who fought to protect the city.

New Orleans, which was the largest city in the Confederacy, fell to Union forces in 1862 and was under federal occupation beyond the Civil War's end in 1865.

 

No place for Lee

 

One prominent artist who wanted the figures gone also skirted the issue of race. Jazz musician Wynton Marsalis, who is African-American, said that Lee in particular had no historic place in the city.

"This symbolic place in our city should represent a great New Orleanian, or it should be an open space that represents our latest prevail and how people helped us, not a person who had nothing to do with our city and who indeed fought against the United States of America and lost," Marsalis told CNN affiliate WDSU.

Gen. P.G.T. Beauregard was a Louisiana native, and Confederate President Jefferson Davis lived in New Orleans after the war and died there.

A New Orleans monument to Louisiana native and former Confederate Gen. P.G.T. Beauregard is one of four that will be removed.
 
A New Orleans monument to Louisiana native and former Confederate Gen. P.G.T. Beauregard is one of four that will be removed.

 

Statue has stood since 1884

 

Lee's statue stands 60 feet high atop a neoclassical column at what was christened Lee Circle in his honor.

The Robert E. Lee Monument has stood in New Orleans since 1884.
 
The Robert E. Lee Monument has stood in New Orleans since 1884.

It was originally called Tivoli Circle. Most Mardi Gras parades snake right past it.

Lee faces north, looking in the direction of his former enemy, and has stood there since 1884, the history department at the University of New Orleans says. Both Davis and Beauregard attended the monument's dedication.

Their statues were erected in the 1910s.

A fourth monument, probably the most contentious, will also be taken down.

The monument to the Battle of Liberty Place commemorates an uprising in 1874 of the White League against federal forces and police in an attempt to overthrow racially integrated governance put in place during Reconstruction.

Mayors have tried to remove the monument to the Battle of Liberty Place in the past. Thursday's New Orleans City Council vote makes it one of four pieces that will be taken down.
 
Mayors have tried to remove the monument to the Battle of Liberty Place in the past. Thursday's New Orleans City Council vote makes it one of four pieces that will be taken down.

Former mayors, including Landrieu's father, Moon Landrieu, have attempted to have this monument removed or altered.

When asked what would happen to the removed monuments, Landrieu suggested a park that would reflect the complete history of the city, from before the American Revolution to the present. That park, he said, would be a place where "history can be remembered and not revered."

He said city leaders should consider forming a commission to decide what to do about other monuments.

Council President Jason Williams said, "After a long and thoughtful debate on this issue, I am pleased that we have reached a conclusion. Thank you to all citizens who have participated and made your voices heard during this process. We all may have differing perspectives, but share a common love and concern for the City of New Orleans."

 

 

Groups Sue To Stop New Orleans From Removing Confederate Statues

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AP Photo / Gerald Herbert

ByTIERNEY SNEEDPublishedDECEMBER 21, 2015, 10:37 AM EST4627 Views

 
 

Hours after the New Orleans City Council and its mayor Mitch Landrieu signed an ordinance last week to remove four Confederate monuments, a coalition of preservation groups as well the Sons of Confederate Veterans sued to block their removal. The federal lawsuit, filed Thursday in New Orleans, said the monuments' removal violated local law, federal law, the state constitution and the U.S. Constitution, according to the ABA Journal.

"Plaintiffs have a First Amendment right to free expression, free speech and free
association, which they exercise by maintaining and preserving the historic character and nature of the City of New Orleans, including their monuments, and by using the monuments as the location for events commemorating individuals and events critical to the outcome of the Civil War," the challengers -- Monumental Task Committee, Louisiana Landmarks Society, the Foundation for Historical Louisiana and the Beauregard Camp No. 130, a local chapter of the Sons of Confederate Veterans -- wrote in the suit.

The mayor's office confirmed the city would hold-off on removing the monuments as the case proceeds, NOLA.com reported, and an initial hearing has been scheduled for Jan. 14.

By a 6-1 vote, the New Orleans City Council approved a measure that would remove statues of Gens. Robert E. Lee and P.G.T. Beauregard, CSA President Jefferson Davis, as well as the city's Battle of Liberty Place obelisk, which memorializes a failed revolt by the Crescent City White League against the Reconstruction state government, according to 4WWL News. Landrieu had been pushing for the monuments' removal since the shooting at an African-American church in South Carolina that killed nine church-goers, which prompted states and institutions across the country to reconsider their Confederate monuments.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 

In addition to Landrieu, U.S. Department of Transportation Secretary Anthony R. Foxx and other federal officials were named as defendants in the suit.

Edited by Big Dave2

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Erasing history does not change history. It just makes people forget who they are and how they became to be.

Edited by leech~~

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always fun to go on a hunting trip and having a bunch of guys from the "South" there.  They call us Minnesota boys Yankees and trust me they are still bitter, as though we were involved in the Civil War.  My buddy was introduced one time to some southern boys and they vouched for him as being a good bguy, "he's one of the good Yankees."

Somebody feels better that the flag is down and the time and money spent on it could have fed some hungry people or helped someone in need instead.  Good gracious.

 

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always fun to go on a hunting trip and having a bunch of guys from the "South" there.  They call us Minnesota boys Yankees and trust me they are still bitter, as though we were involved in the Civil War.  My buddy was introduced one time to some southern boys and they vouched for him as being a good bguy, "he's one of the good Yankees."

Somebody feels better that the flag is down and the time and money spent on it could have fed some hungry people or helped someone in need instead.  Good gracious.

 

That is the war of yankee aggression, btw.   And the money could have been spent on charitable works, but it wouldn't have been. 

Edited by delcecchi
leechlake likes this

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 o59a1.thumb.jpg.a43a6d3db72e65bddc80263b

The KKK still exists! White supremacy groups, and Neo- Nazis still exist. 

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What's your point? The Nation of Yahweh, The Black Panthers and Black Lives Matter still exist. You can't erase history and think it's going to solve your problems. Embracing history and and learning from it is the only way we change things. 

jerkbait likes this

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The KKK still exists! White supremacy groups, and Neo- Nazis still exist. 

That should make the DNC happy. They need all the votes they can get.  

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That should make the DNC happy. They need all the votes they can get.  

Don't you mean the RNC?

What's your point? The Nation of Yahweh, The Black Panthers and Black Lives Matter still exist. You can't erase history and think it's going to solve your problems. Embracing history and and learning from it is the only way we change things. 

So this country should glorify the dark sides of our history?

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blah blah

Timely stuff UB.  Maybe try paying attention to present day, things might make more sense.  You grasp onto your team of the 2 party system like it's your favorite sports team.  

The twins won the world series in 1991.  They suck now.   Kent Hrbek and Kirby Puckett are no longer relevant to the discussion.

Edited by bobbymalone

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It might be possible to just do a renovation of the statues.  Like replacing Jefferson Davis's head with Obama's, for example.  

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Don't you mean the RNC?  

Oh, going with the revisionist history card I see. 

Can't wait to see what else the DNC talking point echo chamber pukes out...

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So this country should glorify the dark sides of our history?

Who's glorifying it? Besides, do you think that slavery is the only "dark" thing that has happened in American history?

There are at least 24 concentration camp sites that still exist in places like Germany and Poland. Some are preserved as museums and others are maintained as monuments or grave sites. Why do you think they hold on to those places? Do you think they are trying to GLORIFY the holocaust?

The KKK still exists! White supremacy groups, and Neo- Nazis still exist. 

Wouldn't that just prove the point that getting rid of symbols like flags and monuments does nothing to address the root of the problem and is futile at best?

Edited by Big Dave2

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Who's glorifying it? Besides, do you think that slavery is the only "dark" thing that has happened in American history?

There are at least 24 concentration camp sites that still exist in places like Germany and Poland. Some are preserved as museums and others are maintained as monuments or grave sites. Why do you think they hold on to those places? Do you think they are trying to GLORIFY the holocaust?

Wouldn't that just prove the point that getting rid of symbols like flags and monuments does nothing to address the root of the problem and is futile at best?

How many statues of Hitler, Barbie, Baer, Goebbels...... do you see at those concentration camps? How about Nazi flags  or Swastika billboards advertising the camps. 

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Timely stuff UB.  Maybe try paying attention to present day, things might make more sense.  You grasp onto your team of the 2 party system like it's your favorite sports team.  

The twins won the world series in 1991.  They suck now.   Kent Hrbek and Kirby Puckett are no longer relevant to the discussion.

The thread is about civil war monuments, bobby.

Maybe try paying attention...

byrd.jpg

WOOOO!!!.....;)

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If it's about civil war monuments, then why are you once again posting that democrats were the racist party in 1964?

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Don't you mean the RNC?

So this country should glorify the dark sides of our history?

Should Nero's statue be removed from the Collosseum?

 

 

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I thought it did get removed about 1500 years ago.

If it was still there, it would probably have a 6 foot dong on it, so it would be the conservatives calling for it's removal or at least have a confederate flag cover the naughty bits.

Edited by bobbymalone

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I thought it did get removed about 1500 years ago.

If it was still there, it would probably have a 6 foot dong on it, so it would be the conservatives calling for it's removal or at least have a confederate flag cover the naughty bits.

Well proportionality if you look at the size of the viewers below it. It may have been 6 feet! :lol:

The_Colossus_Neronis.jpg

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I don't think that statue is still there. That picture looks like a painting . Is it old, or made up like leftist "facts"?

 

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I don't think that statue is still there. That picture looks like a painting . Is it old, or made up like leftist "facts"?

 

It's been "remodeled" a couple of times..

Shortly after Nero's death in A.D. 68, the Emperor Vespasian added a sun-ray crown and renamed it Colossus Solis, after the Roman sun god Sol.[3] Around 128, Emperor Hadrianordered the statue moved from the Domus Aurea to just northwest of the Colosseum(Amphitheatrum Flavianum), in order to create space for the Temple of Venus and Roma.[4] It was moved by the architect Decrianus with the use of 24 elephants.[5] Emperor Commodusconverted it into a statue of himself as Hercules by replacing the head,[6] but after his death it was restored, and so it remained.[7]

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Reportedly last written mention was in 324 AD with an allusion to it in 4xx .   No one knows what happened to it.  Since it was bronze, some meth freaks probably cut it up and sold it for scrap.

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Reportedly last written mention was in 324 AD with an allusion to it in 4xx .   No one knows what happened to it.  Since it was bronze, some meth freaks probably cut it up and sold it for scrap.

It may have been sold off when the Democratic party was founded.

Foolish -  they should have just sawed his head off, and replaced it with the (formerly) current emperor's.

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This thinking that taking down a few statues and monuments is rather stupid.  Changes nuthing and most likely is only going to fan the flames they are trying to put out.   With that thinking may as well take to down every little bit of history for every time period where there was some sort of oppression.  Namely everything!

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