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mattlinster

New Ice House Frame

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Well I got the roof on last night and pulled it out of the garage and weighed it. It weighs 2500 lb with 400 on the tongue so if I keep the weight on the back I have 1000 pounds to work with. I took it down the road and it pulls great so far..

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Nice shack. Is that going to be legal.? I was reading in the the 2016 regs. page 60 says in fish house design, the door must open outward towards the outside. What would be the reasoning behind that?

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For safety the back window is plenty big to get out of and as far as prying the door open it is actually way easier to kick the door in so I'm not sure. And if you want to talk about being legal all ice houses are supposed to float I'm not sure there are any houses except maybe the Zack shack that will float.

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On February 22, 2016 at 1:31 PM, mattlinster said:

 

If we're talking safety to get out in case SHTF, an inswing door is going to be safer.  Most houses will at least partially float, and if you are inside and the house is 5 of 7 feet under and your door swings out, you are fish food!  

Edited by Lip_Ripper Guy

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Just a tidbit of information:

Federal and State laws state "Small Mobile Living Space" i.e. trailers, RV", Wheel Houses etc. need egress exit door access. Egress exit means door needs to open in the direction of exit. Its listed under Fire safety. That means they must open to the outside. (Every home also needs at least 1 egress door which are most garage doors.)

I built a DIY 6.5x12 V front wheel house 2 years ago, used a "house" door - big mistake - warping, expansion, trailer twist, all caused the door not to shut or open. I replaced it last summer with a Steel Framed RV/Travel trailer door. They all come with a tempered frosted window in case someone needs to get in. You can find them used at RV dealers. Egress door is why every RV, Trailer, Wheel House have outside opening doors.

As stated in some reply's the foam on the bottom will be an issue as it will freeze to the ice. Almost every commercial built Wheel House uses high density (pink poly) 1/2 or 3/4" sandwiched between 2 sheets of plywood inside the house. I put plywood on the bottom of mine with insulation in-between, big mistake. At -20 (often happens at Devils Lake) the bottom freezes in the center of the house. Very difficult to get it off the ice. I am changing mine this summer.

It looks like your using a single cable from your 1500# wench through one pulley to the spring. Some part of it will most likely break after a few uses. Most commercial wheel house use a double or quad pulley system on the wheels. Find a recent built Ice Castle, Yetti, Cabin and look at the wheel wench/pulley/cable system. I also modified mine last summer, major improvement and my house fully loaded is only 1740#. You may also want to increase the weight of the wench. Even if you use a powered ATV wench, add the pulleys.

Always lift the wheels before lifting the tongue. The 500" tongue weight is dependent on rocking on the axel. And keep your feet away from under the tongue and your head, arms, hands to the side when turning the crank. When that cable breaks, it will sever body parts.

If you decide to use non-vented heat, plan to have your door and widows freeze shut on next use. Propane heat produces an unbelievable amount of moisture and is advisable to vent it outside. Put some protection under the outside heat exhaust as there will be a large frozen ice cycle formed under the exhaust.

Two essential tools on the ice, a 6' Crow Bar and a 4 ton hydraulic jack. (black jack style). A crow bar is a 1 1/4" steel shaft 6' long with one ground to a flat. Every farmer has one they use to pry things up and apart. Also take a few cut ends of your wood framing 1 foot long with you. They really come in handy on the ice.

Grease your axel's frequently as steel on steel will rust. Last fall there were many threads on another forum about Ice Castles not going down because the wheel axels were rusted together. I also had the problem last fall but was able to overcome the rust frozen axels. I plan to modify mine this summer with a thin layer of copper around the axel shaft.

Your house is looking great, excellent job. Just thought I would share some experience I have had with mine.

Edited by papadarv

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Minnesota law states

Subd. 3. Door must open from outside. A person may not use a dark house or fish house unless the door is constructed so that it can be opened from the outside when it is in use. .  

And one thing I am sure of is sandwiching foam between plywood in your floor is a horrible idea it will seal in moisture and rot your floor that's why all commercial houses are spray foamed from underneath.

As far as the winches go I have two friends with houses heavier than mine with one cable system and with regular replacement of the cables have never broken one if you are smart about not putting too much stress on it there shouldn't ever be a problem.

Thanks for your input..

So I finished my wiring and I had a partial Froth-pak so I decided to start foaming I got the back wall and half of one side done and ran out. It worked awesome I would highly recommend them don't waste your money on a pro. One problem I had tho was I set the tanks in front of my shop light to warm them up and one of the hoses got too close to the guard and exploded and sprayed the A chem all over the place NOT COOL..

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16 hours ago, papadarv said:

Just a tidbit of information:

Federal and State laws state "Small Mobile Living Space" i.e. trailers, RV", Wheel Houses etc. need egress exit door access. Egress exit means door needs to open in the direction of exit. Its listed under Fire safety. That means they must open to the outside. (Every home also needs at least 1 egress door which are most garage doors.)

I built a DIY 6.5x12 V front wheel house 2 years ago, used a "house" door - big mistake - warping, expansion, trailer twist, all caused the door not to shut or open. I replaced it last summer with a Steel Framed RV/Travel trailer door. They all come with a tempered frosted window in case someone needs to get in. You can find them used at RV dealers. Egress door is why every RV, Trailer, Wheel House have outside opening doors.

As stated in some reply's the foam on the bottom will be an issue as it will freeze to the ice. Almost every commercial built Wheel House uses high density (pink poly) 1/2 or 3/4" sandwiched between 2 sheets of plywood inside the house. I put plywood on the bottom of mine with insulation in-between, big mistake. At -20 (often happens at Devils Lake) the bottom freezes in the center of the house. Very difficult to get it off the ice. I am changing mine this summer.

It looks like your using a single cable from your 1500# wench through one pulley to the spring. Some part of it will most likely break after a few uses. Most commercial wheel house use a double or quad pulley system on the wheels. Find a recent built Ice Castle, Yetti, Cabin and look at the wheel wench/pulley/cable system. I also modified mine last summer, major improvement and my house fully loaded is only 1740#. You may also want to increase the weight of the wench. Even if you use a powered ATV wench, add the pulleys.

Always lift the wheels before lifting the tongue. The 500" tongue weight is dependent on rocking on the axel. And keep your feet away from under the tongue and your head, arms, hands to the side when turning the crank. When that cable breaks, it will sever body parts.

If you decide to use non-vented heat, plan to have your door and widows freeze shut on next use. Propane heat produces an unbelievable amount of moisture and is advisable to vent it outside. Put some protection under the outside heat exhaust as there will be a large frozen ice cycle formed under the exhaust.

Two essential tools on the ice, a 6' Crow Bar and a 4 ton hydraulic jack. (black jack style). A crow bar is a 1 1/4" steel shaft 6' long with one ground to a flat. Every farmer has one they use to pry things up and apart. Also take a few cut ends of your wood framing 1 foot long with you. They really come in handy on the ice.

Grease your axel's frequently as steel on steel will rust. Last fall there were many threads on another forum about Ice Castles not going down because the wheel axels were rusted together. I also had the problem last fall but was able to overcome the rust frozen axels. I plan to modify mine this summer with a thin layer of copper around the axel shaft.

Your house is looking great, excellent job. Just thought I would share some experience I have had with mine.

The foam on the bottom won't be an issue, whether spray foam or board foam, so long as it's closed cell. Closed cell won't absorb any water, so won't freeze. 

Open cell spray foam, or that cheap white foam will freeze. 

The reason your house is freezing in the middle is because that plywood on the bottom is absorbing water, which I suspect you've figured out. 

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13 hours ago, mattlinster said:

It worked awesome I would highly recommend them don't waste your money on a pro.

This is an interesting comment.  As Hawg mentioned, I'll be curious to see how many you end up using, and your total end cost.  I've done bids and math on this many times in the last 7-8 years, and for a complete house Froth Paks are double what a pro would charge.  My new 8x21 is bid out right now at $1,000 for 2" in all (5) walls, roof, and floor=1,568 b.f., or (3) of the big 620's= $1,950.  For a floor, or a single area, the small Froth Pak would be about the same.  Have you found something drastically different than me?

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The guy that did my floor quoted me 900 to do the whole thing and then after he did the floor he charged me 275 so that's why I decided to do it myself and I wasn't really happy with his work. If I was sure if the quality of work and I could have it done for $1000 I would definitely have it done. I think I can do the rest with two more froth paks or I might just get a 600.

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On ‎3‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 3:06 AM, mattlinster said:
On ‎3‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 3:06 AM, mattlinster said:

Minnesota law states

Subd. 3. Door must open from outside. A person may not use a dark house or fish house unless the door is constructed so that it can be opened from the outside when it is in use. .  

And one thing I am sure of is sandwiching foam between plywood in your floor is a horrible idea it will seal in moisture and rot your floor that's why all commercial houses are spray foamed from underneath.

Your stated Minnesota law is from the MN Fishing Regulations page 60. Door must open from outside and is part of the MN fishing regulations allowing a DNR Officer entry to an occupied fish house at any time without a warrant. Vehicle registration is covered under the U.S. Department of Labor Occupational Safety & Health Administration and State Statutes. May not hurt to review the statutes before you apply for your vehicle license.

 

The only horrible idea I know concerning wood is using Standard Grade dimensioned or sheet lumber in areas on or close to ground, water or moisture. This would include the floor and the wall bottom plate in a Wheel Fish House as those pieces of wood would be in contact or close proximity of water/moisture when on the ice. We cut large holes in the floor and attach metal siding exposing the edge of the sheet lumber and bottom plate to the moisture and water. Pressure Treated AC2, ACQ, MCP, etc. with mold and mildew inhibitors and a 25 year rot warranty are essential in these areas to avoid rot. And by the way, Ice Castle used pressure treated sandwiched plywood over Extruded Polystyrene Foam flooring up and until the 2015/2016 fishing season. Yetti’s all aluminum house used closed cell foam for many years as stated in their advertisement, adds significant structural strength, most other manufactures only recently went to the foam process.

 

I do wish you the best of luck with your wheel wench and cable. I did not have a great experience until I added heavier cable and pulleys.

 

I’m not trying to be mean or degrading, the work you have done on your house is commendable and outstanding. Just wish someone had clued me in on some of the pitfalls building a wheel house. 

 

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Ok I understand that you are trying to give advice to help but your statement that foam under my house would be a problem and that it would freeze and then you say that everyone is using it now is a total contradiction ther is a reason why every one switched because it is a superior practice.

 

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2 hours ago, papadarv said:

Foam is super a application. Looks like yours protrudes below frame and will contact ice.

a quick sand or grind will fix that.  A little bit wont hurt and a lot wont probably hurt for long as it would likely get scraped down by the ice.

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I do have quite a bit of polishing before it goes on the ice and trimming the foam is on the list for sure I will be using it as a bunkhouse this summer at my camper in Devils Lake and that will give me more time to work on it on windy days..

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Hers is a little update I have been working on my house off and on I finished the top bunk tonight and I will be doing the bottom couch/bunk tomorrow.I have all the 110v wiring and lights done I have to install the 12v lights still. I am looking for a 12 volt utility plugin that will go beside a duplex and I am having a hard time finding one. If anyone picks up the knotty pine trim and save make sure you get a bunch extra I had a few packs that I couldn't use a single full piece. Some packs are fine but you need to be careful picking them out next time I am going to use the premium but it sure is hard to pass up 6 dollars a pack. I plan on using car siding for the counter tops it looks pretty cool  so far I just have a couple of pieces laying on top of the one wheel well I will just put a bunch of coats of polyurethane on them. Also I gave up on the froth packs it was uneven and messy I finnished with pink foam board it was cheaper and only took a few hours to do the rest of the house I don't think I will spray foam again other than the under side of the house I will always spray that.

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