Guests - If You want access to member only forums on HSO. You will gain access only when you Sign-in or Sign-Up on HotSpotOutdoors.

It's easy - LOOK UPPER right menu.

  • Announcements

    • Rick

      Members Only Fluid Forum View   08/08/2017

      Fluid forum view allows members only to get right to the meat of this community; the topics. You can toggle between your preferred forum view just below to the left on the main forum entrance. You will see three icons. Try them out and see what you prefer.   Fluid view allows you, if you are a signed up member, to see the newest topic posts in either all forums (select none or all) or in just your favorite forums (select the ones you want to see when you come to Fishing Minnesota). It keeps and in real time with respect to Topic posts and lets YOU SELECT YOUR FAVORITE FORUMS. It can make things fun and easy. This is especially true for less experienced visitors raised on social media. If you, as a members want more specific topics, you can even select a single forum to view. Let us take a look at fluid view in action. We will then break it down and explain how it works in more detail.   The video shows the topic list and the forum filter box. As you can see, it is easy to change the topic list by changing the selected forums. This view replaces the traditional list of categories and forums.   Of course, members only can change the view to better suit your way of browsing.   You will notice a “grid” option. We have moved the grid forum theme setting into the main forum settings. This makes it an option for members only to choose. This screenshot also shows the removal of the forum breadcrumb in fluid view mode. Fluid view remembers your last forum selection so you don’t lose your place when you go back to the listing. The benefit of this feature is easy to see. It removes a potential barrier of entry for members only. It puts the spotlight on topics themselves, and not the hierarchical forum structure. You as a member will enjoy viewing many forums at once and switching between them without leaving the page. We hope that fluid view, the new functionality is an asset that you enjoy .
  • RECEIVE THE GIFTS MEMBERS SHARE WITH YOU HERE...THEN...CREATE SOMETHING TO ENCHANT OTHERS THAT YOU WANT TO SHARE

    You know what we all love...

    When you enchant people, you fill them with delight and yourself in return. Have Fun!!!

Sign in to follow this  
BobT

Diesel Starting Question

Recommended Posts

I have a question for you diesel guru types. 

  • Allis-Chalmers 190XT Series III with turbo-charger.
  • Equipped with an intake manifold preheater for cold starting. Manual recommends using it when temperatures are below 40 degrees F.

  • Approximately 900 hours on rebuilt engine.

  • Approximately 20 hours on rebuilt injectors.

Until a couple years ago starting my tractor at temperatures above 40 degrees was as easy as setting the throttle to about 1000rpm position, pulling out the fuel shutoff, and pressing the start button. It would usually start right up without difficulty. 

Now, even at temperatures as warm as 60-70 degrees I can crank that starter all day and it will not start at all unless I use the intake manifold heater for about 20-30 seconds. 

I have tried using fuel system cleaners and conditioners with no improvement and I never use starting fluid to get it started.

While cranking it over the smoke is white. Once it starts it runs smooth with a very light white smoke for a few minutes until it begins to warm up and then almost zero exhaust smoke is visible. While running, it has plenty of power with no noticeable crank case blow-by pressure. Under heavy load the exhaust is a light black. 

I do not suspect the fuel pump is losing prime. It is gravity fed from the tank which is located above the level of the pump so the fuel can't drain back toward the tank. Is it possible the fuel pump is getting weak or is slightly out of time? 

Thoughts?

Thank you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Time to check glow plugs and injectors. 

 

I Know its not a direct comparison, but my truck was having similar issues, the controller for the injectors was not getting enough voltage to the injectors and they weren't operating properly until everything was warmed up, even in normal summertime temps. 

Should be fairly easy on a motor like that to get a multimeter in there and find if all the injectors and glow plugs are getting similar voltages. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the reply Powerstroke.  

This is a 1965 tractor. The injectors are mechanical and were rebuilt earlier this summer. Being mechanical I assume the fuel pressure must exceed some minimum tolerance for them to work and that is partly why I am wondering if low fuel pressure could be the issue. Just not sure though because it runs so good once it starts.

It does not have glow plugs but does have a single intake manifold heater that I can manually operate. I know it works because the manifold gets hot enough I can't touch it. But even using that heater, it doesn't start at temps below freezing like I know it can. I am forced to plug the tractor in, which isn't so bad as long as it is parked near a power source.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Question for you, have you pulled the intake line off the turbo to make sure it is not plugged up or restricted?  Have you checked the turbo to make sure it is not locked or broken?  Has the injector pump been off?  If so was it timed when replaced?  If you rebuilt the injectors, what was the reason, obvious issues or is there a pump problem that caused injectors to fail?  Sorry for all the questions just running it through my mind.  Jeff

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  If the engine isn't cranking over as fast as it should I can see needing the preheater to start in warmer temps.  Check condition of cables, connections, starter and batteries.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Question for you, have you pulled the intake line off the turbo to make sure it is not plugged up or restricted?  Have you checked the turbo to make sure it is not locked or broken?  Has the injector pump been off?  If so was it timed when replaced?  If you rebuilt the injectors, what was the reason, obvious issues or is there a pump problem that caused injectors to fail?  Sorry for all the questions just running it through my mind.  Jeff

I have done nothing with the turbo but I can hear it spinning as it winds down when I shut off the engine so I believe it is working okay.

The only time the injector pump has been removed to my knowledge was when the engine was rebuilt 900 hours (about 9 years) ago. It worked great after it came back but only started doing this a couple years ago.

I rebuilt the injectors with the hope that it was the source of my trouble. According to the mechanic that did the work, they were in pretty poor condition. Since rebuilding them, the engine certainly runs cleaner, smoother, and with more power but the starting issue still exists.

Not sure about a possible pump problem so that is why I'm asking.

 

  If the engine isn't cranking over as fast as it should I can see needing the preheater to start in warmer temps.  Check condition of cables, connections, starter and batteries.  

Been through everything. Cleaned up the battery posts with my brush cleaner, polished up the battery clamps with same, applied dielectric grease and reinstalled them. I also removed the cable connections from the starter, polished them with emery board, and applied dielectric grease. Discovered that I had one battery beginning to fail so replaced with two new 950CCA batteries. Engine has never turned over better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A naive question, but could it be a compression thing like leaky valves or rings? I know 900 hrs isn't that much but it sort of fits the symptoms.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That thought has come to me as well. I've been watching crankcase pressure ventilation tube for excess blowby but haven't noticed anything at all. This gives me the impression that the rings should be okay. I suppose there could be some on the top end around the valves. A compression test is the only way I know to test for that. Unfortunately, I don't have the equipment necessary to test it. 

Something I haven't tried yet is to add some Seafoam to the crankcase oil and running it prior to changing the oil. I will be changing the oil soon. Anyone try doing this? The product claims it is okay but....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So thinking through this, we have a cat 924 with a 3116 in it.  Had same issue a while ago.  What we found was we bypassed the fuel filters and ran clear hose to the pump.  No bubbles found while doing this.  Hooked clear line to secondary filter hard start, bubbles in fuel line.  Moved to the primary filter bubbles again.  What it ended up being was a bad fuel filter housing that was sucking air.  It would crank, had to use ether to get it fired off and would continue to run fine after it warmed up.  Cat said they have seen where the housing will contract when cool, once engine warmed up housing would expand enough to stop sucking air.  replaced housing no problem since.  Might be something to look at.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the tip. I'll have to get some clear line to see if I'm getting air in the system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  



  • Your Responses - Share & Have Fun :)

    • I think that was fairly common at one time.   I recall havinga car or two with left hand threads on one side and right hand on the other.    I think the theory was something to do with the nuts not working themselves loose due to the wheel rotation (which seemed dubious to me when I heard it).   Might have been a chrysler thing.    
    • A Tucan? If you break them up I don't see a seed eater passing them by.    Maybe bait for Late Season Squirrel.  
    •   Well you must be talking about my old-New Cat?   Tore it down and found a finger tight head bolt and loose carb boot bolt!  Someone at the Cat plant went to lunch a little early!! The cylinder is in the shop right now so it may be back on the lake fishing anyway yet this year?  High speed trails. May be not?
    •  Following Monday's snow we hit the Reservoir Trail out of Twig Wed afternoon.  Freshly groomed and what a sweet ride it was but too short  More snow in the forecast.   Ride When and What You Can. Going out Fri night.
    • "A little too fast for a sled not completely broke in yet any way"  For what the new POO Axys or the 2003 Cat? Very low miles on an old sled is good but sitting idle for years is no good. Dirty carbs and or rust on the bearings was the Cats downfall.
    •  Most riders are going to cross a driveway in the ROW as if it were any other crossing.  Start putting up barricades or berms to impede crossing the the ROW and heads will butt.  Point is you may have paved the driveway onto the ROW and feel some ownership but the law says you don't control it.   I see it all the time where a landowner blocks of the ROW.   The local club might contact you or Law Enforcement will to inform you to remove the barrier.  
    • I have two huge bags of shelled pecans and walnuts from Xmas that won't be used anytime soon and was wondering if I can feed these to birds and what species of birds would eat them
    • Well, it’s been a few more days. Cardinals are eating it, but they don’t seem to prefer it. Must be a lower quality seed, perhaps? I’m only getting 1 or 2 cardinals now, as opposed to the 10 to 12 I was getting before. Also not getting the sunset feeding frenzy anymore. The redpolls love it though. Anyway, do you guys do anything to help prevent sunflower shell messes, or do anything to clean them up, or do you just deal with the mess?
    • I noticed lately most tire shops have and use torque wrenches instead of just relying on impacts like they used to. Probably a liability thing. Keep in mind a lot of shops employ high school kids part time which is good because they know everything at that age. I had a shop years back put on lugs so tight it ruined the rims and lug nuts. Breaker bar is also a handy tool as well as the BFH
    • Congrats huckfin!!! It was a crashfest! Now to the real racing.
  • MWO