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PurpleFloyd

Denny Hastert

95 posts in this topic

Anyone know what the scoop is with him? Indicted for not telling the feds why he was withdrawing money?

 

I am having a hard time understanding what business it is of the feds to know why he is withdrawing money if he wasn't doing anything illegal. If he made a deal with someone to pay them for something I don't think that is any business of the feds.

 

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Withdrawals of more than 10k in cash are supposed to be reported to IRS.  Failure to do so is a crime.  Structuring, or setting up multiple withdrawals in order to evade reporting is also a crime.  So if you want to get say a million buck is cash out of your account, it will get reported.  Taking out 9,999 every day for 100 days, presumably to avoid it being reported, is a crime.

Did you watch Breaking Bad? 

The Law

A 1970 anti-money-laundering law known as the Bank Secrecy Act spells out the rules for large cash withdrawals. In general, banks must report any transaction involving at least $10,000 in cash. That includes not only withdrawals but also deposits, currency exchanges (such as swapping dollars for euros or Japanese yen) and the purchase of traveler's checks. The law also requires banks to check identification on any transaction that would trigger a report. In other words, even if your bank doesn't usually ask for ID with withdrawals, it must do so for withdrawals over $10,000.

Aggregate Withdrawals

Under the law, all transactions carried out at an institution within a single day count as a single transaction, and all branches of a bank count as a single institution. So if you went to your bank in the morning and withdrew $5,000, then went to a different branch in the afternoon and took out another $5,000, the combined transactions would trigger a report to the IRS. In addition, if the bank has reason to believe a series of transactions are related, even if they're not on the same day, the bank is obligated to file a report. If you come into the bank every day for a week and withdraw $8,000, you could expect the bank to file a report.

http://finance.zacks.com/federal-banking-rules-withdrawing-large-sums-cash-1696.html 

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Details on this should be interesting.  Saw something saying that the "guy" he was paying hush money to was about something naughty he did before he even got into politics. Must have been something more than pocketing a pack of gum at a 711 for 3.5 mil....

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Withdrawals of more than 10k in cash are supposed to be reported to IRS.  Failure to do so is a crime.  Structuring, or setting up multiple withdrawals in order to evade reporting is also a crime. 

 

 

 Yep, that law brought down Plookie Duke and Long Cadillac. A big no-no with the IRS.

http://openjurist.org/977/f2d/1264/united-states-v-p-long

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He was withdrawing money to pay off someone in his home town for something Hassert did to them.  I am thinking we might find out who and what in the next few days.

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Withdrawals of more than 10k in cash are supposed to be reported to IRS.  Failure to do so is a crime.  Structuring, or setting up multiple withdrawals in order to evade reporting is also a crime.  So if you want to get say a million buck is cash out of your account, it will get reported.  Taking out 9,999 every day for 100 days, presumably to avoid it being reported, is a crime.

Did you watch Breaking Bad? 

http://finance.zacks.com/federal-banking-rules-withdrawing-large-sums-cash-1696.html 

Nope, didn't watch it. My point is, what is criminal about taking out 9999 every day if 10k is the reporting threshold? What if it was only 9000 or 5500 every day? As long as he wasn't buying or selling drugs or doing something illegal WITH the funds I don't think the feds have any business with what he does with his own money. 

 

In the end if the money isn't subject to taxes or something like that why should we care and how is he harming society? 

 

 

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I suppose the person he is paying off never filed that money as income so the government will go after them for income tax evasion? If anything IMO that is where the problem should lie. Plus the person is extorting the money and that should get the person in trouble. 

 

Not a big fan of Hastert but I think he should be free to take out what he wants when he wants without letting anyone know. The law sucks in this case. 

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So where did Hastert get that kind of money? That would take a lot of income to allow a cash flow of that magnitude over that period of time.

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So where did Hastert get that kind of money?

​He's a politician so I'm sure someone bought a few favors.

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Nope, didn't watch it. My point is, what is criminal about taking out 9999 every day if 10k is the reporting threshold? What if it was only 9000 or 5500 every day? As long as he wasn't buying or selling drugs or doing something illegal WITH the funds I don't think the feds have any business with what he does with his own money.

 

In the end if the money isn't subject to taxes or something like that why should we care and how is he harming society?

 

 

​You answered your own question here. This law was set up in the cocaine days in Miami. Drug dealers were purchasing cars, boats, real estate, ect... paying cash for it all. It was a huge money laundering problem so the government enacted the 10,000 cash limit. And like your other post said, I'm sure the IRS would like to know where these large cash withdraws are going and if the receiving party is paying their share to the Feds. This is not a new law, it's been around for awhile.

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So is this why gold is so strong? Instead of dealing in dollars the bad guys just switch to another currency? 

 

It doesn't appear to have stopped the drug trade it was targeted to disrupt.

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I agree and never said it had a large impact on the "war on drugs". Do most of the things the government does make sense? :)

PurpleFloyd likes this

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Nope, didn't watch it. My point is, what is criminal about taking out 9999 every day if 10k is the reporting threshold? What if it was only 9000 or 5500 every day? As long as he wasn't buying or selling drugs or doing something illegal WITH the funds I don't think the feds have any business with what he does with his own money. 

 

In the end if the money isn't subject to taxes or something like that why should we care and how is he harming society? 

 

 

What is criminal about it is that it is a violation of a law.  

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There's that black and white thing again Del ;).  While this law may have started with good intentions, it is now perverted beyond its scope....and big time big brotherish. 

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It was passed to help deal with money laundering. Hassert had no reason to not keep taking out the 50k chunks like he did for the first part even if the transactions were reported to the IRS.  Perhaps he was worried about someone in the IRS leaking the info. 

In any case, what he did then was exactly what the law prohibits.  He took the money out in small chunks so it wouldn't be reported.  And he did it deliberately to avoid having it reported. 

I could, if I had the money, go take out 30k in cash to buy a boat from a private party and the withdrawal would get reported to the IRS.  If I went in every day for a week and took out 5k just so it wouldn't be reported that is a crime. 

BTW after leaving Congress in 2008 he was a partner in a lobbying firm.

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

 

 

Edited by delcecchi

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 If I went in every day for a week and took out 5k just so it wouldn't be reported that is a crime. 

 

 

And somehow the sheer stupidity of arresting someone because they bought a boat by making several withdrawals rather than one escapes you? 

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He knew what he was doing and I am sure he knew that it was against the law. 

 

I take it you don't approve of the money laundering law? 

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He knew what he was doing and I am sure he knew that it was against the law. 

 

I take it you don't approve of the money laundering law? 

​Not if it makes criminals out of people who are otherwise doing nothing wrong. Now, as it turns out he may have done something that should get his arse thrown in jail if the allegations are true. But the idea of throwing someone on prison for taking a big transaction and breaking it into smaller ones is ridiculous.

 

So a guy buys a house for 500k. Instead of paying it all up front he gets the crazy notion of breaking the cost up over say 30 years and withdraws say 2.5k a month to pay it off. You are advocating throwing him in jail or fining him?

 

 

Big Dave2 likes this

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I agree and never said it had a large impact on the "war on drugs". Do most of the things the government does make sense? :)

11392939_10206891746202789_6729222875338808459_n.jpg

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​Not if it makes criminals out of people who are otherwise doing nothing wrong. Now, as it turns out he may have done something that should get his arse thrown in jail if the allegations are true. But the idea of throwing someone on prison for taking a big transaction and breaking it into smaller ones is ridiculous.

 

So a guy buys a house for 500k. Instead of paying it all up front he gets the crazy notion of breaking the cost up over say 30 years and withdraws say 2.5k a month to pay it off. You are advocating throwing him in jail or fining him?

 

 

​I would guess that your example doesn't fit the definition of "structuring" in the law.  And there are also provisions in the law for businesses that deal in cash, like car washes etc.  

Given that we hear very few accounts of people getting busted for making house payments, doesn't seem to be a problem.  Remember this law only applies to cash, as in a bag of Benjamins, not checks or electronic transfers.  So when you write a check for that new Ranger multi-species boat no problem.  The government doesn't even get notified.  

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​I would guess that your example doesn't fit the definition of "structuring" in the law.  And there are also provisions in the law for businesses that deal in cash, like car washes etc.  

Given that we hear very few accounts of people getting busted for making house payments, doesn't seem to be a problem.  Remember this law only applies to cash, as in a bag of Benjamins, not checks or electronic transfers.  So when you write a check for that new Ranger multi-species boat no problem.  The government doesn't even get notified.  

​Incorrect. If you write a check or do a transfer they know it. This is just a tool to monitor what citizens do that was written under the premise that it was for drug dealers when in reality it did nothing to stop the drug trade but it did make criminals out of people who did nothing that they should be prosecuted for.

 

Why is cash illegal or why should it be illegal to use for transactions without government approval?

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​Incorrect. If you write a check or do a transfer they know it. This is just a tool to monitor what citizens do that was written under the premise that it was for drug dealers when in reality it did nothing to stop the drug trade but it did make criminals out of people who did nothing that they should be prosecuted for.

 

Why is cash illegal or why should it be illegal to use for transactions without government approval?

​Where do you get the idea that cash is illegal for any kind of transaction?  The illegal part of what Hassert did was to perform withdrawals of his money in a way intended to avoid legal reporting requirements for large cash transactions. 

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So if I buy a used boat of c-list for $12k cash, I need to notify the government?

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