New statewide Pike Regs

[live4chrome]

That’s the whole point, People can’t keep culling through the hammerhandles to find a “keeper”. That just compounds the problem. Read the proposal I posted. Most people consider a keeper at about 24” We need to protect those fish larger than 30” because the smaller ones will actually eat more than the larger fish (Biomass statistics). Also the study shows 3 distinct populations of pike that relate to regions of the state. In the central part they are encouraging MORE harvest.

Although I admit it does negatively affect spearing as we know it today, the proposal is directed towards pike fishing as a whole and is meant to shift the balance of pike in a lake to lower density and bigger size, which in the long run is much better for not only the pike but all the other fish in the system. Plus I thought there was this new “look and release” movement for spearing so that should help right?

As far as the 2 under 30” bag and doing it in my region, heck I’d be in favor of doing it statewide if we could. I don’t need to eat a pike over 30” and I certainly don’t need to nail one up on my wall. But that is just my personal opinion.

Im right there with you dtro, although they certainly are on to something allowing more little fish to be harvested in some regions. We need to shift our thinking from the balance of our dinner plates and freezers, to the balance of the fisheries. When they fix the hammer handle problems expect the walleye and panfish to start recovering/getting better too. Big pike are like sharks. If you take the sharks out of the oceans, the whole ecosystem collapses.

[leechlake]

I'm not a spearer but I'm going to try to analogize this to something I like deer hunting. When I head out to the woods I'm always passioned by the hope of shooting that elusive monster buck. Where I hunt I'd say that's 150 or so. There are years I pass on smaller bucks and does hoping for the big one. If I knew that the 150 plus was off limits how would that effect my deer hunting experience. Let's admit it, the odds of me harvesting let alone seeing a 150 is a once every ten year proposition but it will still stink knowing as I head out that that is the case.

It's a conundrum though in solving the northern problem. Step on one group to attempt to improve the population. I feel sorry for the spearers though. Also, even though it seems the "look and release" concept is cool but every once in a while I'd say you get the itchy trigger finger and want to harvest a fish or two. It would be like going out deer hunting and making all the effort only to have a camera with you.

[20lbSloughShark]

I'm not a spearer but I'm going to try to analogize this to something I like deer hunting. When I head out to the woods I'm always passioned by the hope of shooting that elusive monster buck. Where I hunt I'd say that's 150 or so. There are years I pass on smaller bucks and does hoping for the big one. If I knew that the 150 plus was off limits how would that effect my deer hunting experience. Let's admit it, the odds of me harvesting let alone seeing a 150 is a once every ten year proposition but it will still stink knowing as I head out that that is the case.

It's a conundrum though in solving the northern problem. Step on one group to attempt to improve the population. I feel sorry for the spearers though. Also, even though it seems the "look and release" concept is cool but every once in a while I'd say you get the itchy trigger finger and want to harvest a fish or two. It would be like going out deer hunting and making all the effort only to have a camera with you.

Your analogy of deer hunting is spot on. Its only half as fun if you are limited to does. Same for pike, what good is spearing if you just have to watch the trophy swim by? I really don't want that to happen. Slots have been proven to work, why the DNR doesn't try some more extreme slots on a few lakes, I don't know. I guess they got sick of some lake home owners complaining about ruining "their" lake. Instead they just ruin everyone's.

[shamalex72]

Plus I thought there was this new “look and release” movement for spearing so that should help right?

I was really hoping that would catch on more than it has. I know there are some that do "look and release" those medium sized pike, but I still think the majority of spearers are going to take more 30"+ fish than they let swim by.

[creepworm]

Slots have been proven to work, why the DNR doesn't try some more extreme slots on a few lakes, I don't know.

Because the MDAA decides to go through the legislature, bypassing the DNR completely, to arbitrarily cap the number of lakes that can have slots.

[LunkerCity]

I had posted the link to the presentation on facebook, a good debate was underway when Ricky chimed in. Here is is direct quote.

"I am the president of the MDAA's local chapter in the Itasca County area. The MN Darkhouse and Angling Assn. had a presence at this DNR round table discussion and once the open questions began, believe me, there were questions by our representatives. We have known about these 'proposals' since the DNR put out a news release last fall on a possible new pike plan for the future. This entire group of comments is focused on one of the roundtable discussion's 'proposed'-'regulation options' for the NE zone. Both options were: 1) No harvest over 30' or 2) bag limit of 2. Just for everyone's information; the stance of the MDAA is such that we oppose the implementaion of ANY zoning of the state for purposes of pike regulation. Every lake in the state is unique and we will hold the DNR to the present cap of 100 lakes for all pike slot regulations as long as we can. The DNR respects our powerful stance on pike policy in Minnesota, though they may not always like it. We are aggressively opposing any no harvest rule over 30 inches no matter where it is in the state. Bag limit changes are, however, a very viable option. It would be good to have bag limits of 2 or even 1 on certain trophy-class pike waters. Even the most avid pike anglers and spearers (I am one, of course!) can agree that bag limit changes would work better than slots. This leaves harvest 'guessing' out of the equation. The whole of this new DNR 'proposal' is being picked apart by the MDAA as we speak. What the DNR is basically saying without admitting anything is this... 'Our pike slot limit experiment is failing so here is our next experiment'. We will hold their feet to the fire on this and any new proposal had better not be another experiment!! The DNR has a long history of failed fisheries experiments. If a good portion of sportsmen and women oppose something, chances are it will fail because 10% non-compliance by the public will negate the effects of almost any bag limit regulation. So, oppose these new zone rules and/or any new slot limits by writing to legislators, once they officially become public. Go to the area public input meetings when they are held. Dont stay home. By the way, some great news that all will be surprised to hear... By the end of 2016 there will be no more designated musky lakes in the state of Minnesota! There may be a few left with certain restrictions but the designated musky lake experiment has failed and will be gone. Even the lakes around the Twin Cities will be designation - free. You can credit this to the MDAA's push to release Cass Lake from this discriminatory rule a few years back. Our momentum is going in the right direction and it is not going to stop anytime soon!! Thanks-Rick Guertin."

[DTro]

what good is spearing if you just have to watch the trophy swim by?

I'm not against spearing at all, but this attitude is one that could really damage a lake in a hurry. 20lb pike aren't replaced in five years like a 150pt buck.

Protecting the biggest fish of any species is fine by me. Eat the little guys.

[Getanet]

I don't have anything against spearing either. In fact, I would love to give it a try sometime. But the main focus on large pike for spearing has always confused me as well. Knowing the value of a true trophy pike to a body of water, unless you're going to mount it, why kill it?

Hook & line anglers can experience the thrill of the fight before releasing it, but is there any kind of "fight" with a spear? Definitely a challenge of not spooking the fish, but one the spear connects that's pretty much game over, isn't it?

[20lbSloughShark]

So clearly there is a wide range of opinions, which is why I don't see why you would set a whole region of the state to extreme regulations, and only have it appeal to 25% of the population. With slot limits you can go to lakes and find decent size of fish. If you want to catch a meal you could just go to the next lake over. Dtro, I fully respect your opinion, and you are right. A 20 pound pike could be 20 years old or more. Getanet, spearing is definitely something you should try. I am an angler, and always have been, but I enjoy spearing. I just never caught the "bug" like I did for a hook and line. Is it really about the fight that you like pike? Sure they fight hard, but there are plenty of other fish that fight even harder like catfish and bowfin. Is it how they taste? Is it the challenge? It doesn't really matter why you like fishing. The fact is some people love spearing, some like angling, some judge a good day by how many fish they catch, some by how big of a fish they caught. I will always support the outdoors as a whole, and not just from one perspective. There's 10,000 lakes in this state, there's more than enough to go around. Some should be trophy lakes, but a lot should be just left alone.

[delcecchi]

And my comments about spearers got edited. Now the head of MDAA just made them again.

He mentions Cass. What was the result of opening Cass up to spearing? I haven't heard a word.

[Spike76]

All Minnesota lakes are trophy lakes. I don't agree with all the findings on here. Big fish eat more big fish, and the smaller fish eat smaller fish. With more smaller fish, there will be less small fish. Most northerns have small crappies and sunfish in them. The larger ones usually have bass or other northerns in them. This is in the winter months. I've fished Lower Mission the last three three weekends and have not caught any over 23 inches long. Three 23 and 3 at 20, and only seen one in the slot on camera. Threw back a couple of hammer handles. The slots are not helping on this lake. I'm deprived of spearing on this lake because I don't want to miscalculate their size. None of you can realize how the slots have ruined my fishing experience with my children, grandchildren and greatgrandchildren.

[creepworm]

All Minnesota lakes are trophy lakes. I don't agree with all the findings on here. Big fish eat more big fish, and the smaller fish eat smaller fish. With more smaller fish, there will be less small fish.

This is not even a teeny tiny bit true. In fact, this is the exact opposite of the truth. Seriously, before making something up, doing a little reading and educating yourself a little bit on the subject may keep you from looking foolish and hurting the cause you are trying to help.

[Spike76]

Creep worm, if you can tell me what a trophy is to all, I would like to know what it is. After years of fishing and seeing what is in them, shows me that. You might believe everything you read, but I don't. All studies can be slanted to the outcome desired. I've seen 1 1/2 pound bass in northerns, and that isn't a study. The only cause I want to help is to make all lakes for all. Don't deprive some to help others. One over 30 is enough of a regulation, or close the lake till it is what is needed for all.

[delcecchi]

So, to get this straight, you are upset because you can't spear the bigger northerns and you think that harvesting them is good for the lake? Are you blaming some sort of fishing problem on the northerns?

I am not familiar with your lake and what your problem is.

[20lbSloughShark]

I'm going to have to strongly disagree Spike. There are so few trophy lakes in Mn its almost sad. While I cant say whether slot limits help the particular lake you are talking about, Every study I have ever seen has indicated a significant increase in the larger fish. Every lake I have been to with slot limits have proven to be better lakes than those without. If there is anything I have learned in the last year about fishing, is that things never stay the same. I'd love to be close to a good pike lake, but the only good one near my was destroyed last year. Now its a long drive to a decent lake, and hundreds of miles to a trophy lake. The way things are going now, the state will continue to promote lakes full of tiny hammer handle pike. From the sounds of it, lower mission is just an average MN lake. There is nothing stopping you from going 3 miles down the road to the next lake to spear with your family.

[delcecchi]

I'm going to have to strongly disagree Spike. There are so few trophy lakes in Mn its almost sad. While I cant say whether slot limits help the particular lake you are talking about, Every study I have ever seen has indicated a significant increase in the larger fish. Every lake I have been to with slot limits have proven to be better lakes than those without. If there is anything I have learned in the last year about fishing, is that things never stay the same. I'd love to be close to a good pike lake, but the only good one near my was destroyed last year. Now its a long drive to a decent lake, and hundreds of miles to a trophy lake. The way things are going now, the state will continue to promote lakes full of tiny hammer handle pike. From the sounds of it, lower mission is just an average MN lake. There is nothing stopping you from going 3 miles down the road to the next lake to spear with your family.

The milfoil and curly pondweed invasive species might be having an adverse effect on fishing success as well.

The whole lake is like 720 acres and in 2007 (last survey) looks like it had a whole bunch of little pike, as well as some decent fish. Did something happen to those decent pike? Or you just can't kill them?

[20lbSloughShark]

The lower mission you are talking about Spike wouldn't happen to be the one north of Brainerd and connected to upper mission would it? If so, I have been on upper mission a few times, and would have to say it is a fine pike lake. Prabably not as good as the big ones like pelican, north long, and my favorite gull, but for a small lake, it is above average. I ended up with a few over 30" out of there, but I never did try the lower part.

[JP Z]

Del,

There is a protected slot of 24-36" on the lake.......so you just can't kill them. As an angler I still am having fun catching Pike on Mission, but I generally only keep the smaller ones so I'm fine with it.

[creepworm]

The only cause I want to help is to make all lakes for all. Don't deprive some to help others. One over 30 is enough of a regulation, or close the lake till it is what is needed for all.

So you want to see lakes closed but in the statement prior to that you say you want all lakes for all and don't want to deprive some to help others. You have to be able to see the hypocrisy in these statements.

When you say "don't deprive some to help others" you do realize that by fighting slot limits you are taking away from everyone that would like healthy lakes, simply to help you harvest dozens of hammer handles.

[Spike76]

20 lb. S. S. , that is the lake. I've fished and speared it since 1964. Never any problem finding nice pike. To walk out to your fish house is a lot easier then loading everything and driving down the road 3 miles. Easier for grandkids to run back and forth from the house too. I was spearing down the road but the visibility is so bad I've been angling in Mission. I've only cleaned one over thirty in three years, I just want eaters. The one over thirty was from bass lake. I don't want to lose my last good years fishing and spearing with my grandchildren, because some people need to catch bigger fish than the state regulations, of one over thirty.

[creepworm]

I don't want to lose my last good years fishing and spearing with my grandchildren, because some people need to catch bigger fish than the state regulations, of one over thirty.

'I don't want to lose my last good years of fishing, because some people need to harvest large pike causing the entire fishery to have a healthy imbalance.

Seeing a pattern here Spike? Every argument you have made, can be turned around and used to support the other side, very easily.

[20lbSloughShark]

How about you lay off the guy. While I may not agree, his argument is as good as anyone's.

[Spike76]

Creepworm, the slots on mission are experimental for larger pike, not because the lake needs them. There isn't even a resort on the lake anymore. Before the public landing was put in on lower, I would catch walleyes right out from it. Now there are too many weeds. I used to catch crappies whenever I wanted, know I can't find them. I feel the slots have changed the lake for the worse.

[delcecchi]

I have a little sympathy since I fish Vermilion with the same slot. A 24 is barely big enough to be interesting to clean. But if it brings back big pike, so be it. I'll eat a walleye or smallie or even some bluegill if it helps the big pike population.

Muskies have hurt the pike fishing on Vermilion in my opinon because they attract fishermen who catch pike by accident and spoil it for me compared to when I was one of the few fishing for pike. But so long as they aren't too rude and pushy, ok for them.

[20lbSloughShark]

You get more meat from a 24" pike than you do a 24" walleye. I've done it side by side (although I don't like keeping 24" walleye unless I have to). Nobody would ever say a 24" walleye is short on meat. Spike, I'm afraid slot limits are not to blame for the change in the lake. Increased fishing, and I'm sure invasive species are to blame.