High School State Basketball

[BartmanMN]

Anyone watching these games? I caught a couple last night and they were entertaining.

What is your opinion on Hopkins holding the ball for over 3 minutes per overtime and then attempting a last second shot. Is this normal for basketball or not?

I'm a hockey guy so this was really strange to me.

[DrJuice1980]

To me it is pretty classless to play that way. Its a sport, so you PLAY the sport. You dont stand around for 7 mins. Winning that way cheapens the game. I guess I wouldnt expect anything more from a school like Hopkins. A bunch of spoon fed babies.

Hey coach, great game plan! Way to open up the play book and find something that can crack the zone!

No Bartman, thats not the way it is suppose to go.

[Getanet]

Didn't see the game, but I love the irony of a presumably grown adult calling a bunch of high school kids classless.

In high school I had a varsity coach attempt the "keep away" strategy against a team that clearly had more talent than we did. Their fans were booing, our players were embarrassed, and it didn't work anyway. By half-time the team decided to play our regular style of ball and get take our lumps in stride.

I can see holding onto the ball at the end of the game for a little while, but 3 minutes does sound extreme.

[Duffman]

Psst........Hopkins wasn't the only team on the court just standing there.

[DrJuice1980]

Didn't see the game, but I love the irony of a presumably grown adult calling a bunch of high school kids classless.

Mmm, you must not know much about high school sports. Coaches call the games not the players. If the kids did play classless I wouldnt have a problem calling them out. I guess they would get a pass from you though. I love the irony in the statement as if I were wrong but your enabling is right. Getanet, you should change that name to Getaclue.

[DrJuice1980]

Psst........Hopkins wasn't the only team on the court just standing there.

One team was trying to play the sport of basketball, the other was just standing around.

[ozzie]

it was an interesting stand of game plans...Hopkins couldn't beat the zone and Shakopee knew that they couldn't defend one on one so they waited...I would be embarrassed to be Hopkins but hey they played within the rules of the game and won. Shakopee coach didn't fault Hopkins in the paper and said it just goes to show we need a shot clock in HS basketball.

[Getanet]

Mmm, you must not know much about high school sports. Coaches call the games not the players. If the kids did play classless I wouldnt have a problem calling them out. I guess they would get a pass from you though. I love the irony in the statement as if I were wrong but your enabling is right. Getanet, you should change that name to Getaclue.

Please explain exactly how was I enabling anyone? By calling you out for being a keyboard cowboy?

You are correct, you didn't call the kids classless, just spoonfed babies. Again, it takes a pretty big man to call 16, 17 and 18 year old kids names.

Based on the majority of your post I would guess you can count the number of friends you have on one hand, with a few fingers left over.

[DTro]

The only way that Shakopee could have forced play would have been by switching to man to man or pulling their zone way out, and Novak knew that.  Nobody is to blame but the system.  A shot clock or a ban on zone defense would eliminate this happening in the future and sure Hopkins didn’t do anything wrong, but it was just a chicken $hit way of playing the game and the biggest chicken was leading the bunch.

[JeffB]

Definitely the team not willing to leave its zone defense and go after the ball shares the blame in making it a boring game. As it turns out Hopkins wins and the other team is left wishing they would have went out and gone after the ball. I didn't see the game or care who won, but if your going to not go after the ball and let the other team have the last shot you have nothing to complain about. I do hope this helps bring about a shot clock in Minnesota, it just makes the game more fun to watch.

[Getanet]

I was listening to a segment on the radio about this, and adding a shot clock is probably a long-shot. The costs to purchase and install a shot clock, along with having to pay an extra person to work the shot clock during games, seemed to be the main obstacles.

Of course, anywhere they play the state tournament would have shot clocks installed, but I don't think you should play tournament games under different rules than the regular season.

[DrJuice1980]

Please explain exactly how was I enabling anyone? By calling you out for being a keyboard cowboy?

You are correct, you didn't call the kids classless, just spoonfed babies. Again, it takes a pretty big man to call 16, 17 and 18 year old kids names.

Based on the majority of your post I would guess you can count the number of friends you have on one hand, with a few fingers left over.

I guess it takes a bigger man to attempt to bash somebody with something that has nothing to do with the topic. That one finger left over isnt worth pointing at you, jaggoff.

Spoon fed babies is a culture that embodies more than the age group your implying.

This is a prime example of the decline in sports in America. Play the game and let the game decide the winner. The game has advanced tremendously since Mr. Naismith created it. A game like this just took it back 60+ years. You fail to hold anybody accountable, thats why your an enabler.

[Getanet]

That's Dr. Naismith. Unlike you, he earned it. Done feeding trolls now who make incredible leaps in "logic," if you can call it that.

[BartmanMN]

Psst........Hopkins wasn't the only team on the court just standing there.

That is a good point.

[certified jumbo]

It is a lame way to play, but its within the rules. You do see this tactic at times in high school ball. Years back I scouted the blaine vs coon rapids. It was when blaine had Patrick Bryant. Coon rapids held the ball the entire game. By doing this they kept the game close but in the end lost. Until a shot clock is put in it will continue to happen. For some, it can.actually be a good strategy...

[DrJuice1980]

That's Dr. Naismith. Unlike you, he earned it. Done feeding trolls now who make incredible leaps in "logic," if you can call it that.

"Done feeding" typed that right after an attempted dig, ironic. Go on with your bad self.

[PierBridge]

No thats just good coaching actually.

Putting this as simple as possible for you guys.... you are not going to send DTRO out to force action on Michael Jordon. MJ would just walk around DTRO and create a 5 on 4 thus crippling your team.

And as it turns out it was brilliant coaching on Shak-towns part as Hopkins looked like a grade school team on all of last possessions. Bad shot on the 1st, not even getting shot off on the 2nd and stepping out of bounds on the 3rd.

Unfortunately it took a couple of poor plays on Shaks part and a lucky hail-marry to win it for Hopkins.

Hope that clears things up for the non basketball types like my man Duffman! who probably ducked in here based on 27 viewers "red flag" in the Basketball forum...

One other thing its highly doubtful we will see a shot clock over this rare isolated incident.

Minnesota HS basketball actually leads the nation in points scored per game so its not a real problem.

Go Panthers!

[PierBridge]

I'll be waiting for the 2 Scotts response on this as they are the true FM Basketball rubes!

[harvey lee]

I personally thought it stunk when Hopkin's did what they did even though they were within the rules.

I would hope something could be done to stop this type play.

Let's play the ball and not hold it for 6-9 minutes to get a shot at the end of a OT period.

Very boring and sad as far as I was concerned.

[harvey lee]

The only way that Shakopee could have forced play would have been by switching to man to man or pulling their zone way out, and Novak knew that.  Nobody is to blame but the system.  A shot clock or a ban on zone defense would eliminate this happening in the future and sure Hopkins didn’t do anything wrong, but it was just a chicken $hit way of playing the game and the biggest chicken was leading the bunch.

BINGO!

[Raider4ever]

What about this for MN HS hoops?

Mon: All four class quarterfinals (16 games. 4 arenas)

Tue: All four class semifinals [8 games. 2 (or 4) arena(s)]

Wed: All four class finals [4 games. 1 (or 2) arena(s)]

Thu: Off (much needed for A and AA I'm thinking)

Fri: A winner vs. AA winner, AAA winner vs. AAAA winner (2 games. 1 arena)

Sat: Game 1 winner vs. Game 2 winner (1 game.)

Try it for 5-10 years and see if it will always be AA vs. AAAA or if AAAA always wins it. If it is, scrub it. If not, who knows.

I see opening round logistics as the big problem (4 nicer gyms in the TC area. Target, Williams, St. Thomas?, Somewhere else? I realize you are tying some of them up for quite a few days). Hotels aren't different other than two teams spend one extra night and two teams spend two extra. It's one extra game for two teams and two extra for two.

Of course, it flies in the face of the "Soccer Paradigm" where EVERYBODY is a champion (you have a pulse, you get: a trophy, Gushers, and a juice box...Sheesh).

[Duffman]

Hope that clears things up for the non basketball types like my man Duffman! who probably ducked in here based on 27 viewers "red flag" in the Basketball forum...

I actually watched the game my friend, I have nothing against the strategy of not forcing the issue, but they are kids and kids are more prone to make mistakes in a game of this magnitude. Even you said that when Hopkins decided to finally start the offense it led to not much of an offence and a mistake.

Shakopee could have at least sent the pg out there a couple of times to try and force an errant pass or even a double dribble and then drop back into the zone. After holding the ball that long, maybe enough time has passed that they really don't know if they dribbled already? Like I said..... they're just kids, talented kids but kids none the less. Mistakes can be made, but not when there isn't an opportunity to make a mistake.

As for Hopkins strategy, it worked, they controlled the tempo and I dare say had all the moxy because of it. Clock management is huge in most sports, especially basketball and football. It doesn't make for exciting games, but if you can keep the ball out of your opponents hands and grind clock, you can keep them from scoring as much.

Then again, what do I know about sports or anything else for that matter?

[PierBridge]

I thought you had more of sense humor.

My bad

I do disagree with the actual strategy working saying it "worked" via a freakish 2/3 court hail mary shot, just as intended I'm sure and that somehow Shakopee shares or deserves more of the blame of the ugliness is IMO not accurate.

[Duffman]

I thought you had more of sense humor.

My bad

We're good, no worries.

(I didn't take it that way)

I actually found the strategy interesting and not ugly.

Better than a foul fest at the end of a game.

I felt the same way about both teams strategy........indifferent, if Shakopee would have won, I'd still feel the same way. And would have expressed that Hopkins strategy didn't work. The hail mary doesn't even come into play for my "argument".

But I'd rather lose putting forth some effort into dictating a game other than playing zone and just standing there with my hands on my knees for three minutes. But that's just me, and the reason I brought up the issue in the first place. No skin off my back.

[muskiemanAD]

Play man to man D and force a turnover...problem solved...