Trading or releasing T-Jack by Friday?

[LMITOUT]

Yeah, we should of kept Troy Williamson... thats a good one.

Oh wait he had a great pre-season game so he must be good.

Just like T-Jack did Friday night?

You can take down your avatar of ol' #7 any time now after that comment as you've just boxed yourself.

[fishersofmen]

Mudcutter do us all a favor and stay on the IA. thread.......They obviously forgot to test the water down there.

The Chiefs backups are almost as good as their starters!! Classic......Now everyone knows that performance by T-Jack was for real. The question marks have officially been answered. Heck why didn't they pay him the 12 million.

[james_walleye]

LOL if thats not the pot calling the kettle black. Why don't you reread your post and then think about your stance on Jackson. Thats hilarious hahaha.

[james_walleye]

Originally Posted By: LMITOUT

although I didn't exactly see fan-on-fan violence as part of this as I figured all the hatred would be directed at #4.

Typical "Minnesota Nice" Queens fans. Minnesota Nice means smiling and nodding and being pleasant to your face and then ripping you a new . . . uh, you know what . . . as soon as your back is turned.

It won't be long until they start ripping the Aging Golden Boy up one side and down the other. Come the regular season, the first time he throws under .500 completion percentage, or the first time the Queens lose two games in a row, or the first time he sneezes and the fans think the sneeze is aimed at them, they'll turn on him (behind his back, or course, because they are Minnesota Nice) and rip him to shreds. Poor Bret. I guess all that money is a pretty good consolation prize for standing up to fair-weather fans who have never won anything really meaningful and are full of dog-pack hate because of it.

Ahhh, the fun that's about to happen.

Apparently Steve you've never been outside the state of MN, because if you think this isnt the case with all 32 NFL teams and their players your awfully naive.

[james_walleye]

Quote:

So Pier why dont you tell me now what im suppose to open my eyes and see

I'm not much for piling on in these instances but I have had a couple of soda's today.

I am expecting a FULL retraction on the absurd and very vehement, without a doubt we're all wrong Quote by Jim that Sage Rosenfel is clearly better than T-Jack.

Sorry but... before the game the numbers don't lie and of course now we ALL know that statement you rammed down our throats with 8 RANTING RANTS that O'Reiley woulda been proud of... not to be the case. Sage may be better but I'm not sold on it just yet my Friend/Friends

Sage's last season stats... 6 TD's 10 INT 79.5 Rating.

T-Jack's last season stats. 9 TD's 2 INT 95.4 Rating

In fairness to Sage he did average a WHOPPING 1 yard more per completion last season than TJ...

Sages career stats 30 TD's 29 INT 81.2

T-Jacks career stats 20 TD's 18 INT 76.5

So after 5 more years in the league Sage has a 4 and change QB Rating lead over TJ and the TD to INT ratio is in T-Jacks favor although modestely.

Clearly better eh Jim?

Man up James!!!

I nominate Fishin58 to be the next Vikings head coach...the guy knows Football! Congrats me boi! And enjoy the hot fudge topping T-Jack laid on the haters AGAIN tonight!

In all seriousness T-Jacked looked like he did at the end of last year "play-off game not with-standing" which was quite good!

I still believe due to salary Cap ramifications and money vested in Sage T-Jack still could be the man out! Business is Business.

7th round pick and rising eh boys...ROTFLOL~~~

We have may to start a T-Jack versus Favre thread ..

Isn't Fishingminnesota Fun..Nite y'all!

Its great to see someone like this jumping in on a debate in which the person has never seen one of the parties play. How about this, if you really want to have some credibility, why don't you look up some games on Sage, watch them for yourself, form some opinions of your own, and then get back to me.

Also see the post on how numbers arent always everything. Go take a look at all the statistical leaders from last year and come tell me that their ranked order reflects the real deal. Jay Cutler, 16th ranked passer last year. You gonna take 15 QB's in the NFL over Cutler? You gonna take Shaun Hill over Cutler? Feel free to think for yourself for once Pier rather than burying your nose in the statbooks. Feel free to take into account the man Jackson has been able to off to and the looks Jackson gets in a passing game compared to any other QB in the NFL, including Sage while in Houston. Its things like these that Jackson supporters seemingly "forget" about, or rather maybe just choose not to look at is more realistic. Jackson looked pretty good friday night. And Darius Reynaud looked better than Percy Harvin. What does it all mean in the preseason?

[Born2Fish]

A lot of excitement over Junkson beating that GREAT chiefs defense. I mean being the chiefs were one of the highest ranked defenses in the NFL last year, it means a LOT that Junkson did so well. Oh and I am VERY glad he did it in the preseason too. I mean the preseason is the MOST important part of any NFL clubs year. Give me a break. Where was this ALMIGHTY QB last year against the Eagles? The 3rd year starter? The "He is getting better every year" guy? I liked the arguement of, why did we go out and sign 2 different QB's this year if TJ is so good and steadily improving? Do you go out and sign a guy like Sage to compete for the starting job(before Favre of course)if Jackson is so great(being that most of you Junkson lovers say Sage is so bad a QB)? I am pretty sure the Vikes didnt go,"Hey let's go TRADE for Sage even though we think Jackson is a LOT better." Or, hey lets sign Favre too because we have that much confidence in Jackson. I keep seeing the word "armchairs" thrown around a lot in here. I think we all fit into that category. I don't see any of you on the sidelines come Sunday with the Vikes(or ANY team for that matter).

[PierBridge]

Shoulda known you were not going to admit that it's a pretty even battle so far and T-Jack may be beeter than Sage.

[james_walleye]

Nice comeback haha. Thats 2 guys on here now making an arguement for Jackson having never watched Sage play. Real credibility....

[FISHINGURU]

check out the quote from junkson himself..."I'm not going to say it wasn't hard, but I just tried to stay focused on what I had to do," Jackson said. "You never really know in this league exactly what's going to take place. I feel like I didn't have nothing to lose. Just went out there and had fun, pretty much."

you see he felt like he had nothing to lose, he just went out there and had fun, as you could see in his performance....no pressure just a preseason game and not fighting to be starter anymore..just go play some football.

if there was any pressure at all i'm pretty sure we all know what the results are!!

the winnipeg blue bombers have signed for his rights in the canadian football league anticipating his release...so they got first dibs on him if he joins the CFL...thats good humor there!!!!

[PierBridge]

Originally Posted By: PierBridge

Yeah, we should of kept Troy Williamson... thats a good one.

Oh wait he had a great pre-season game so he must be good.

Just like T-Jack did Friday night?

You can take down your avatar of ol' #7 any time now after that comment as you've just boxed yourself.

Nice try again LM...yawn I know you don't believe the non-sense that Jimmy posted that Sage who you have constantly ripped and ridiculed is cleary a better QB then TJ,, I'm pretty sure you are on record as stating the both suck.

I don't base my opinions on 1 game on how I believe T-Jack is already and will be in the future a better QB than Sage Ferrote!

Just the opposite actually. I base my opinion on a cumulative of events, Like last year when T-Jack crushed Sage in QB rating 96 to 78... K? you with me? I base it in on how both QB's played at the end of last season when T-Jacked played quite well including NFL player of the Week. "seen eating crow threads"

I then took into account the reports and my own observations from training camp in which T-Jack looked much better early until his injury. I also took into account Sages good play towards the end of camp and into the 1st pre-season game. I also factored in T-Jacks last game in which he was again quite good.I have also factored in age and experience along with potential.

So in my final evaluation based a lot of criteria I have come to the conclusion that although close T-Jack with his superior arm strength and foot speed may be a better fit than Sages some what boring and maybe a bit steadier play.

I hope this clears things up for you I do understand you guys are boxed in a ticked off about it but it is what it is... basically a coin flip for me that comes up T-Jack.

I do apologise for having an open mind and using a sound rational reasonong for coming to my conclusions.

Boo-Hoo Jimmy boo-hoo--- Yeah Sage is CLEARLY the better QB..good one..LOL!

[FISHINGURU]

i would like to see what both of their stats, ratings, and records are when they both get to play on this football team.

lets not forget junkson has had the opportunity to play with one of the best running games and best defenses in the league...he's had the luxary of almost always seeing one on one coverage and not taking advantage of it very often...the defenses he's seen for the most part should be pretty easy to read....the playbook shouldn't be that difficult 4 years later...not many of his players rally around him and get excited when he's their leader...they refer to him as a capable qb....everytime the pressure level has gone up he's went down.

if the kid actaully passed it downfield you'd see that precious qb rating go way down....as you start taking more chances thats when you start getting more incompletions and ints.

[PierBridge]

Nice comeback haha. Thats 2 guys on here now making an arguement for Jackson having never watched Sage play. Real credibility....

I've watched him play plenty...

I have had Sunday NFL Ticket for 6 years. I watched his pre-season game on TV he looked good. I was at training camp two days including the passing scrimage. I gave a fair and balanced report on his good play

You are the only person in this thread stating Sage Rose-aweful is CLEARLY a better QB than Tavaris Jackson.

Cased closed!

Keep whinning like a 2 year old if you want... did you like the game FRIDAY...LMAO!

[FISHINGURU]

oh oh...he went with sage rose- awful....he has to bleed green and gold!! i always thought sage throws'n'falls would be funnier!

[james_walleye]

I thought you had been on this forum for a while. There are 3 guys on this forum who think Jackson should be the QB, and a whole lot of people who think Sage CLEARY should be higher on the depthchart. I know thats hard for you to comprehend because none of them stated in writing they thought he clearly should be the starter, but its CLEAR that they feel this way. Maybe if there was a statbook around for you to reference it would be a little more CLEAR. Here is what is CLEAR, you have never really watched Sage play. Had you watched him you would see CLEAR differences in them. Like ability to read a defense. Am i stating he is the savior? No, just that hes clearly better than Jackson. I watched him in 2 of the 4 games he played in which he brought the texans back from over 21 points in the 4th quarter, including the game he threw 4 TD's in the 4th quarter alone. It was CLEAR that he could throw the ball against a defense that knew he was going to throw the ball. Jackson has never been able to throw the ball consistently against teams showing 8 man fronts playing the run.

Im not quite sure why you think anyone but yourself is boxed? I mean here is a guy who laughs at another guy who sarcastically brings up Troy Williamson by saying "wow he did good in preseason game, what does that mean"....?, while on the other hand is putting all this stock into Jacksons preseason showing LOL. Sage can read a defense, Jackson can't, hes allowed to look at 1/3 of the field on pass plays. Sage can throw the ball against a defense that knows he has to pass. Jackson can't throw against 8 man fronts that think he is going to hand the ball off. That defines CLEAR advantage. Why would you want a guy who can't throw the ball against teams that think your going to run to lead your team into the playoffs? Why would you even begin to believe, knowing this, that this guy can lead the vikings through the playoffs to a superbowl? He isnt going to be at all successful against playoff caliber defenses and he showed it last year!! At least Sage has proved he can throw the ball against a defense that knows he is going to throw! Keep ignoring that jackson has been handing the ball off to the best RB in the game the last couple years and can't take advantage of it. Keep leaving all the little things out and keep looking at those stats. Lets take your logic. The bears trade the farm away for the 16th rated QB in the league last year. Shaun Hill was rated 11th. I guess by your theory he should be traded for nothing less than 4 first rounders? Keep trying buddy.

[LMITOUT]

Nice try again LM...yawn

[FISHINGURU]

I then took into account the reports and my own observations from training camp in which T-Jack looked much better early until his injury.

lol there was 1 report saying junkson had the SLIGHT advantage on the first day or two of camp because he was a LITTLE more familiar with the plays and wr's.

then sage starting pulling away thats when junkson went down...then he came back and went down again...when he felt and heard his knee pop and tear but yet there was nothing wrong with it lol.

you were the only report of junkson looking better then sage in camp..except for the first day.

as you were reporting people were asking where your sources are and where your reading all this and you had no answer...meanwhile everyone else is posting articles and quotes showing how sage is doing better.

when you couldn't handle the pressure anymore you came out with the truth and said how sage was clearly doing better.

when junkson was the worse qb on the field last week we didn't hear a peep...now he happens to be the best qb on the field for 1 preseason game and it's all about how dominating junkson is lmmfao.

we've seen it all before where junkson can light it up then the very next week look like he's coming straight from highschool...then be ok...then look like the worse qb around...then happen to light it up again....thats why the eat crow threads are so few and far between....poor guys.

[james_walleye]

Its pretty laughable isnt it FG? LOL. Its funny, i listen to alot of Sirius NFL radio, and other national programs. For 2 months when the vikings and Favre were discussed there were 2 sides of the fence. One party that said absolutely, Favre would make this team dramatically better. The other side of the fence? Would Favre do any more for this team than Sage would? The common thread? No one talked about Jackson because it was CLEAR that everyone knew if Favre was not a viking that Sage was going to be the QB. Then you come on here and you have someone like pier spouting off about Jackson and telling me im in a box LOL. A friend of mine who doesnt post here but reads alot on the site asked me tonight if i thought pier was for real or not as he laughed his rear off.

[greebs]

Count me among those that believe that Sage is clearly a better qb than TJ, provided he is healthy. TJ has clearly showed us previously that he cannot pass accurately if the pass needs to go more than about 12 years downfield and we all know that there are generally several occasions in a game where that is necessary. Let's hope Sage stays healthy because I think there's a good chance that we are going to need him during the season.

[PierBridge]

Originally Posted By: PierBridge

Nice try again LM...yawn

Oh, I really didn't have to try at all....in fact, you pretty much boxed yourself after posting this on Friday night after the game:

Originally Posted By: PierBridge

And enjoy the hot fudge topping T-Jack laid on the haters AGAIN tonight!

In all seriousness T-Jacked looked like he did at the end of last year "play-off game not with-standing" which was quite good!

7th round pick and rising eh boys...ROTFLOL~~~

We have may to start a T-Jack versus Favre thread ..

And then followed up with this regarding T-Williamson's recent game:

Originally Posted By: PierBridge

Yeah, we should of kept Troy Williamson... thats a good one.

Oh wait he had a great pre-season game so he must be good.

Seems like you were gulping down the T-Jack koolaid pretty good after the game Friday night. Heck, even your new #7 avatar went up around the same time, but evidently Williamson's nice preseason game didn't mean much?

It makes it difficult to hold any credence in your T-Jack lobbying when you have inconsistencies of when preseason results apparently count and don't count. Don't you think?

HUH? Not sure how you can read my post and come to that conclusion but oh well.

What part of this did you not understand about my reasoning that Sage may not be clealry better than T-Jack?

If you think Troy williamson is great now after one pre-season game GREAT maybe he is now. I could care less actually. I have my doubts about it but he may all of sudden be pretty good after one Great pre-season game.

Here is how I reasoned out my opinion that Sage is not Clearly better than T-Jack. It's my opinion and I don't care how mad you, guru or Jim are about it frankly.

I see both being very medicore at this point and again a coin flip between the two with each having there own strengths and weaknesses,

Not sure how you can say I am basing it off of one pre-season game but it sure did rile you 3 up no doubt...

Here's my post from earlier stating how I came to the conclusion right or wrong that I have. If you 3 want to conclude after 1 quarter of Pre-season ball and my live report from training camp that Sage is clearly the man...Good for you 3...

Posted above by PB:"I don't base my opinions on 1 game on how I believe T-Jack is already and will be in the future a better QB than Sage Ferrote!

Just the opposite actually. I base my opinion on a cumulative of events, Like last year when T-Jack crushed Sage in QB rating 96 to 78... K? you with me? I base it in on how both QB's played at the end of last season when T-Jacked played quite well including NFL player of the Week. "see eating crow threads"

I then took into account the reports and my own observations from training camp in which T-Jack looked much better early until his injury. I also took into account Sages good play towards the end of camp and into the 1st pre-season game. I also factored in T-Jacks last game in which he was again quite good. I have also factored in age and experience along with potential.

So in my final evaluation based a lot of criteria I have come to the conclusion that although close T-Jack with his superior arm strength and foot speed may be a better fit than Sages somewhat boring and maybe a bit steadier smarter play.

I hope this clears things up for you I do understand you guys are boxed in a ticked off about the perfect Game TJ pitched but it is what it is... basically a coin flip for me that comes up T-Jack."

I do apologise for having an open mind and using sound rational reasoning for coming to my conclusions or opinions.

[PierBridge]

TJ has clearly showed us previously that he cannot pass accurately if the pass needs to go more than about 12 years downfield and we all know that there are generally several occasions in a game where that is necessary. Let's hope Sage stays healthy because I think there's a good chance that we are going to need him during the season.

Like I stated above maybe the whopping extra 1 yard per pass completion Sage averaged last year over T-Jack may be a deal breaker. And maybe T-Jacks pass per play advantage over Sage this Pre-season might tip the scales to him. You know the one "team" where they are both playing with the best running back in the game..LOL... oh wait that doesn't count even though Fishguru was wanting Sage to have the same opertunity TJ had/has...LOL!

To bad Favres here because you guys think your blood is boiling now. I'm pretty sure T-Jack was going to be the starter of course this just my opinion and you guys know everthing so I'm probably wrong on that also and the diference between me and some of you is I can and will admit I'm wrong you guys are too stuborn to do the same!...

Sage may be better he may turn out to be better but it's insane at this point to say he's clearly better based on the non-sense posted in this thread.

I'll turn this over to Fish58 from here on out...

[LMITOUT]

Hey Pier, I was just re-reading my last post and wanted to make sure we're clear when I asked at the end "Don't you think?". I'm not sure how you read that as it could be interpreted as you don't use your head, and what I should have typed is "Don't you agree?".

I know my dad has said 'don't you think?' to me after screwing up and I'm pretty sure he wasn't looking for my opinion. The whack on the back of the head that usually followed left no doubt.

Anyway, just bustin' on ya about your buddy T-Jack. And no, I don't think T-Will is going to be the next Jerry Rice and was just using him as an example to make and example out of you!

[AWH]

I've only read a couple of the responses here. So MAYBE there's a few that have defended T-Jack. But I'm guessing the majority want him gone. I'm just going to cut and paste from an email I sent some friends the other day regarding Childress and Jackson. In my opinion it would be a huge mistake to get rid of Jackson at this point.

--------------

Chilly isn't a bad coach. But there's one thing that will keep him from becoming a good coach. Decision making. He's an excellent coach when it comes to personnel decisions. Look at the talent level on this team compared to 4 years ago. They've improved dramatically across the board. Even TE where he was ripped to shreds initially for his decision to go after a guy like Shiancoe. Now we're seeing what Chilly saw in this guy. One of the top TEs in the game.

People rip his eye for talent at QB because of T-Jack. Truth be told, Chilly is brilliant here in what he saw when he traded up to draft this Division 2 QB. (Dumb to trade up. Brilliant to spot the potential.) T-Jack has a boat load of talent. This is where Chilly's down fall is as coach. He won't let T-Jack use it. More on that later.

For those in Purple Nation that feel that T-Jack has been given ample opportunity and he has shown that he will never be able to do it, you need to open your eyes a bit. This is probably about 95% of Purple Nation.

I'm sure I could come up with a long list of QBs for comparison if I wanted to think about it. But let's just use two. These two guys started out worse than T-Jack and became two of the best in the game during their time in the league. One will be a Hall of Famer.

Rich Gannon. He was an average at best QB for the first 12 years he was in the league and he got plenty of playing time in those 12 years. Then all of a sudden he figured it out and was an all pro for 4 consecutive years. Wasn't he a Super Bowl MVP too? Was it because he finally figured it out or was it because he was allowed to play? Either way, it wasn't until his 13th year in the league until he all of a sudden went from average to all pro.

Steve Young. It took him 5 years before he started to figure it out. Young's stats for his first 4 years (shown below) in the league are worse than T-Jack's career stats to this point (in 3 years). How did Young turn out? I think he did alright for himself.

Young / T-Jack

Games 38 / 23

Comp% 53 / 58

TD 24 / 20

INT 24 / 18

Yd/Comp 6.6 / 6.5

I don't think Steve Young had the excuse that he played Division 2 college football either like T-Jack. Gannon at least had the excuse that he wasn't even drafted as a QB.

The point? You people that think T-Jack has been given plenty of opportunities to prove himself need a dose of reality. Let the guy play. If you know football and you actually watch the guy play, the guy has a lot of talent. Does he make stupid plays? You're dang right! Find me a Hall of Fame QB that didn't make a lot of dumb plays in his career. Few and far between. We've got one on the roster right now that might be the all time leader in NFL history in stupid plays made.

Chilly better let Favre play. And I'm not talking about the playbook like he has held back with T-Jack. I'm talking about making decisions. Brad Johnson and Gus Frerotte have both gone on record to say that Chilly pretty much would not let them call an audible. Why bring in a veteran for leadership and decision making if you aren't going to let them do it??? I don't care if it's T-Jack. If you're going to put a QB on the field, you better let him change a play call if he sees something in the defense where it needs to be done. If you don't let your QB do that, you're the reason he's failing.

If Chilly allows his players (namely his QBs) to make decisions, he will go from being a "not bad" coach to a very good coach. If he doesn't trust his QBs to make the right decisions, that's why you have coaches. COACH them how to read a defense and make decisions.

Will T-Jack be a Hall of Famer? Let's not go that far. But he has all the potential and talent to lead the Purple to wherever they want to go. Cut him or trade him this year and it's the dumbest thing they could do. Obviously, they've given up on him for this year with going to Favre. But he's not going to be around forever. Are we ready to start all over when he's gone? T-Jack has the most talent, the best ability, and the most upside of any QB on the roster. Cut him loose and there WILL be a team that gives him the opportunity that the Vikings haven't.

---------

Aaron

[FISHINGURU]

oh man you almost converted me there...half way through that thing i was like yeah thats right go jackson!!

then i remembered junkson doesn't have a brain or leadership abilities and chokes under pressure....them things over ride his positives of being mobile and a decent arm....everyone in the NFL has talent.

but really we have no reason to hurry up and try to trade him....we can't get squat for the guy and he's on the cheap....chilly and his two sons fishin58 and pier probably still have alot of faith in him and can sense a breakout season!

[zamboni]

How do you go FIVE yards past the line of scrimmage and throw the ball??? FIVE yards?!?!?!?!? I know 1, maybe 2- but 5????

[AWH]

How do you go FIVE yards past the line of scrimmage and throw the ball??? FIVE yards?!?!?!?!? I know 1, maybe 2- but 5????

Hey, give the guy a break. He thought that was legal after watching KC get away with it even after it was challeneged! Kidding of course. That was bad. But I'm not ready to execute the guy over a bone head play.

My whole point with T-Jack in my post above was this.

1) Very few QBs come into the league and prosper early in their career.

2) Even fewer come out of Division 2 and do well.

3) Jackson has shown signs of being very capable of being an excellent QB.

4) Has he shown a lack of smart decisions on the field? Absolutely!

5) Am I convinced he's the answer? No, but I believe he could be.

6) If Childress isn't even willing to let veterans like Brad Johnson and Gus Frerotte to call audibles when they see things in the defense, we know he hasn't allowed Jackson to do it. So how do we even know what we really have in him? He's been set up to fail when your coach puts you in that situation.

I'm all for the Favre move. Jackson can only benefit from a year watching and learning from a guy like that. Hopefully Childress can even learn to loosen up the reigns and give his QBs a chance to succeed.

Aaron