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pike doctor

Insurance fraud (hail)

14 posts in this topic

Here is an experience that I just had with a homeowner.

They had some hail damage to their viynl siding (about 15 holes). The siding was about 20 years old so I informed them that they could get all new siding as long as what they had wasnt made anymore and they had replacement cost coverage.

So they agreed and we had the ins. out and the siding wasnt made so they agreed to replace the whole thing. About 18 sq. Of course the first thing they want is to NOT pay their deductible. I say, ok, how about you pay it and I upgrade you to steel and you kick in an extra five-hundred. So it cost them $1000 out of pocket to have steel put on.

They agree to it. I do all the haggling with the ins, color samples, etc. After they get the check they go and get some other guys to bid it and they come in less than me. So they are gonna pocket $2k and put viynl back on, and then they tell me to bad after i lined it all up, and did all the work with the ins. and the ins is using my numbers to pay them.

Thanks to another crappy homeowner. And I am sure there are plenty more contractors on here that have had this happen. SO next time you question why they want you to sign up right away this is why. These are people I really trusted. I have done roofs for them this year.

I hope some of these homeowners and "deductible paying" contractors start getting nailed for this [PoorWordUsage]. IT IS INS FRAUD PLAIN AND SIMPLE!! Pay your deductible and realize that not everything in life is free.

and thanks to the homeowner for screwing me out of about 15 hours of my time, gas, samples, etc.

end of rant

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That is just wrong.

Shouldn't you take a deposit or something? Earnest money?

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Even though I indicated my aversion to contractors asking a fee for bidding, this is one time I can see where it would have been appropriate.

It sounds to me like you went way above just quoting a job. You became their liaison with the insurance company and in the end got screwed. Totally unfair. Sounds fraudulent to me. I would be inclined to report their butts to their insurance company. There may be legal avenues that could be pursued.

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This is EXACTLY why a hand shake doesn't cut it anymore (as sad as it is). We've had numerous homeowners try to back out of their contract AFTER we've argued on their behalf. We've payed alot of money for a lawyer to draw up a bullet proof contract that we live and die by.

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Every time I have had to do insurance work on the house the contractor that I chose to go with has had me sign a sheet stating that I am agreeing that they will handle the insurance paperwork and they will do the repair work.

I think you need to do that to your new customers.

To make you feel better in the short term, I would call their agent and let the insurance company know what they did and how much they will pocket.

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I bet the ins. company would love to get a call from you.

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Send them a bill for your time acting as their agent in dealing with the insurance company. You had a verbal contract to do that work and it should be enforceable. Telling their agent probably won't make a difference.

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It is ILLEGAL for an insured to profit off of on insurance claim and we call the insurance company every time that it happens, trust me they will only do it once, insurance companys are worse than the IRS.

As far as the idea of "I think you need to do that to your new customers", we do it with ALL of our customers present and past.

I'll give you an example of why:

We had shingled a very large church in the metro area a few years ago and every thing went well, last year the storm hit and we were called to inspect their roof(the church). After about a half-hour we concluded the roof needed to be replaced, we told the pastor the "bad" news. He was in a rush so we told him that we would be in contact with him and to set up the adjustment, over the next few days his schedule didn't match up with mine. After the adjustment was completed the adjuster agreed that the roof was to be replaced (about a $120,000.00 job) we contacted our "customer" to get the contract signed and this is what he told us "some members of the church are going to get together and replace the shingles so we will not be needing your services" CLICK.

From that point on EVERY CUSTOMER SIGNS A CONTRACT because if you can't trust a man of faith who can you trust?

O yeah 1 year later the roof is still not done

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I never liked to make anyone sign anything, because I wanted to restore some trust in the contractor/customer relationship. It seems like every couple months there is a contractor on TV or Tom Lyden is doing a story about a crooked contractor. So I would always take the first step and offer to do some work for them as a gesture of good faith. Not all of us are crooks! Then the contract would be signed.

This case was the same. I had a verbal agreement that I could do the work if I could recover the entire house. It has been burning my rear more than a three foot flame all night.

Maybe one of these news channels could do a story on crooked homeowners that try to rip off contractors. It seems like every time I go to a new job the owners are trying to get me to commit multiple felonies. They want you to give them two bids. A really high one for the ins and then a really low one to do the work. My response is always "sure if I can come to your work and you do the same for me."

I hate doing work for people you know cause they always want you to come way down on price, and when you work for people you dont know you never know what your getting into. A hailstorm hit my hometown last year and I never had so many people mad at me. I did everything for ins money and deductibles. Some of the other local contractors havent dealt with ins so they were doing the jobs for quite a bit less than the ins was paying. Well when people were bragging at the bar about how much they pocketed I had quite a few people get mad at me. They told me I was screwing them and that they wouldnt hire me anymore cause i was to expensive. I think this is exactly how i lost this job.

I will be calling AM Fam to let them know that I have nothing to do with the claim anymore. Chad, would you be willing to leave the name of the lawyer that did your contract? I would like to get one made for myself. I have wasted weeks in the last three years and I am finally sick of it.

I think I will just drive around and chase storms.

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That sucks and they did screw you out of your time but not so sure its insurance fraud according to the details. It's fairly standard practice to cut the homeowner a check like that before they pay the deductible and then pay out the rest of the damage claim. I've seen this happen numerous times and often the insurance company pretty much tells the homeowner to keep the check even if they dont get the repairs done. They just have it on record and pay out that much less the next time the same or similar repairs are needed IF the homeowner didnt have the original repairs made.

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Deerminator,

The fraud that pike doctor is talking about is the fact that some contractors are covering homeowner deductables which is highly illegal.

Pike doctor,

The laywer that wrote up our contract is no longer with us, but we do have another lawyer that we have been using for a couple of years and I will E-mail it to you if you leave your contact info on here. Whom ever you choose make sure they specialize in buisness law

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Its sad but I do know more than one person who look at a storm loss as an opertunity to get rich.

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Sounds like you went to the school of hard knocks. Businesses are in the same boat nowadays. The homeowner thought through the options and picked the one that saved or made him money and left emotions out.

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Sounds like you went to the school of hard knocks. Businesses are in the same boat nowadays. The homeowner thought through the options and picked the one that saved or made him money and left emotions out.

I think that in this case they did more than shop around.

Had Pike Doctor just went there, looked things over, bid his price and left and then the homeowners got other bids, that's a little different then going through all the prep work that was done and then getting other bids to do that work.

I think Pike Doctor went way farther than he had to, or perhaps than he should have. Basically, it sounds like he actually performed some of the work without pay. That will be a learning experience there.

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    • Minnesota DNR News
      For Immediate Release:
      July 21, 2017
      In This Issue

      Conserving Mille Lacs walleye population requires regulation changes

      Mille Lacs Lake Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for summer 2017

      Conserving Mille Lacs walleye population requires regulation changes

      Walleye fishing on Mille Lacs Lake will remain closed until Aug. 11 to protect the walleye fishery, and ensure its long-term health and sustainability into the future

      To extend the walleye fishing season through Labor Day, the state will allow for an additional 11,000 pounds of walleye harvest on Mille Lacs 

      New solutions are being sought to rebuild and sustain a healthy Mille Lacs walleye fishery

      New fisheries data collected by the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources show the total safe harvest allocation for walleyes on Mille Lacs Lake (44,800 pounds) has already been exceeded this season. To protect the fishery and ensure the long-term sustainability of Mille Lacs Lake’s walleye population, the DNR announced today that walleye fishing will remain closed until Friday, Aug. 11.

      In order to extend the walleye fishing season through Labor Day, the state will allow for an additional 11,000 pounds of walleye harvest. Catch-and-release walleye fishing will run from Friday, Aug. 11, through Monday, Sept. 4, for the Labor Day weekend. Walleye fishing will then be closed from Tuesday, Sept. 5, through Thursday, Nov. 30.

      As these regulation changes were announced, Minnesota DNR Commissioner Tom Landwehr reiterated the state’s commitment to rebuilding and sustaining a healthy walleye fishery in Mille Lacs Lake.

      “Improving the walleye population in Mille Lacs is a top priority for the DNR,” Landwehr said. “We deeply regret the hardships these new regulations will cause for anglers and business owners. But they are essential to protect and enhance the future of walleye fishing in the lake for future generations. We will continue doing everything we can to understand the challenges facing the walleye fishery, and take whatever actions we can to resolve this very difficult situation.”

      Landwehr and DNR fisheries chief Don Pereira noted that allowing for additional catch-and-release fishing in August is essential for area anglers, businesses, and Mille Lacs area communities. The decision to allow for this additional harvest was made with input from the Mille Lacs Fisheries Advisory Committee.

      “We want to allow as much walleye fishing on Mille Lacs as possible,” Pereira said. “So even though state anglers already have caught their quota of fish, the DNR will dip into the allowed conservation overage to reopen the season on Aug. 11.”

      Through the closure, anglers on Mille Lacs Lake may fish for all other species in the lake including bass, muskellunge and northern pike. When fishing for other species, only artificial baits and lures will be allowed in possession, except for anglers targeting northern pike or muskie, who may fish with sucker minnows longer than 8 inches.

      A prohibition on night fishing will remain in place from 10 p.m. to 6 a.m. through Nov. 30. However, anglers may fish for muskie and northern pike at night, but may only use artificial lures longer than 8 inches or sucker minnows longer than 8 inches. Bowfishing for rough fish also is allowed at night but possession of angling equipment is not allowed and only rough fish may be in possession.

      Understanding walleye fishing quotas on Mille Lacs this year, and why that quota was reached earlier than predicted
      The DNR and the Chippewa bands that cooperatively manage Mille Lacs Lake agreed this year to harvest quotas of 44,800 pounds for state anglers and 19,200 pounds for tribal fishing. They also agreed that up to 75,000 pounds of walleye could be harvested from the lake from Dec. 1, 2016 to Nov. 30, 2017.

      That agreement allows the state to use a built-in buffer – the 11,000 pounds difference between the 75,000 pounds conservation cap and the 64,000 pounds combined harvest quotas – in an attempt to allow catch-and-release walleye fishing through Labor Day, following the mid-summer closure. Bi-weekly creel surveys show that state anglers already have reached their quota.

      “The DNR is using its full allotment to maximize opportunities to fish for walleye on Mille Lacs without violating our agreement,” Pereira said. “The DNR, just like area businesses, would greatly prefer to not have fishing restrictions in place. But sustaining and stabilizing Mille Lacs’ walleye population is our primary obligation and public responsibility.”

      Continuing the walleye fishing closure will reduce the number of fish that die after being caught and released, a condition known as hooking mortality. The likelihood of fish suffering hooking mortality increases as water temperatures warm.

      High walleye catch rates on Mille Lacs have increased DNR fishing projections. A hot walleye bite attracted more anglers to the lake, resulting in angler effort that is about double what it was in 2016.

      “Cooler than normal temperatures kept hooking mortality rates low, but more anglers fished Mille Lacs, particularly catching walleye longer than 20 inches,” Pereira said. “That increased the poundage of fish caught and put us over our walleye quota.”

      According to the DNR, bigger fish are biting, in part, because there is a shortage of food for larger walleye. Last fall’s assessment showed that larger walleye were thinner than average.

      Mille Lacs’ hot bite also reflects the findings of studies done in many other fisheries that show catchability actually increases when fish population drops. In Mille Lacs, walleye congregate in preferred spots rather than disperse evenly throughout the lake. Fewer fish in the lake means there is more room in the preferred spots for fish to gather, creating a situation where a larger percentage of the population is in position to be caught rather than gathering in a less preferred but less fished area.

      More information about Mille Lacs Lake, the regulation adjustments and management of the fishery is available on the DNR page at www.mndnr.gov/millelacslake.

      New solutions are being sought to improve and sustain a healthy walleye fishery
      The DNR announced in June that a new external review team of scientists will take a fresh look at Mille Lacs Lake’s walleye fishery, using all of the best science available to gain a better understanding of the lake. This new review, led by walleye expert Dr. Chris Vandergoot of the U.S. Geological Survey, will provide additional recommendations to improve fisheries management of the lake, and contribute to a long-term solution to improving and sustaining a healthy walleye fishery for future generations. The group’s report is expected in time to help guide and inform fisheries management decisions for the 2018 season.

      DNR encourages Minnesotans to fish for other abundant species on Mille Lacs Lake
      As today’s walleye fishing regulation changes were announced, the DNR encouraged all Minnesotans to visit Mille Lacs Lake to fish the other abundant species that the lake has to offer. Mille Lacs Lake’s other opportunities for top-notch fishing will not be affected by the regulation adjustment.

      Bassmaster Magazine named Mille Lacs the nation’s best bass lake in June and will send 50 of the country’s best anglers to the lake In September for its Angler of the Year tournament. Northern pike abound in Mille Lacs, along with muskellunge. In early July, a woman from southern Minnesota caught and released in Mille Lacs what may have been Minnesota’s largest-ever muskellunge.

      To learn more about Mille Lacs Lake and its many great fishing opportunities, visit the DNR page. To plan visit to the Mille Lacs area, visit the Mille Lacs Area Tourism Council page.

      ###

      Mille Lacs Lake Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for summer 2017
      Q: What is happening with the walleye season this summer on Mille Lacs Lake?

      A: The closure that began July 8 and was set to end July 28 is being extended by two weeks. That means walleye fishing will reopen at 6:01 a.m. on Aug. 11 for catch-and-release only through Labor Day. A night fishing closure also will remain in place from 10 p.m. to 6 a.m. through Nov. 30.

      Q: How does this affect fishing for other species?

      A: Fishing regulations for other species such as smallmouth bass, muskie and northern pike remain the same. During the night closure, there is an exception for muskie and northern pike anglers using artificial lures and sucker minnows longer than 8 inches.

      Q: Why did the DNR extend the closure?

      A: While the DNR wants to allow as much walleye fishing on Mille Lacs as possible, the state is also required to abide by cooperative agreements made with eight American Indian Chippewa bands. The two weeks of additional closure allows the state to abide by a harvest quota set earlier this year with the bands.

      The DNR and the bands agreed to harvest quotas of 44,800 pounds for state anglers and 19,200 pounds for tribal fishing. They also agreed that up to 75,000 pounds of walleye could be sustainably harvested from the lake from Dec. 1, 2016 to Nov. 30, 2017 in order to conserve the population

      That agreement allows the state to use a built-in buffer – the 11,000 pounds difference between the conservation cap of 75,000 pounds and the combined harvest quota of 64,000 pounds – in an attempt to allow catch-and-release walleye fishing through Labor Day, following the mid-summer closure.

      The latest creel survey data shows that state anglers reached their quota of 44,800 pounds of walleye caught from Mille Lacs in early July. Even though state anglers already have caught their quota of fish, the DNR is dipping into the allowed conservation reserve in order to reopen the season on Aug. 11.

      Q: Why has the walleye population in Mille Lacs declined? What is the DNR doing in the long-term to try to conserve the population?

      A: The vast majority of walleye that hatch do not survive to their third autumn in the lake. Walleye numbers have declined to the point that it has become important to protect spawning-sized walleye, particularly the class of walleye that hatched in 2013. It is important to protect the large 2013 year class to replenish aging spawning stock.  Most males from the 2013 class are now mature, but females will not start to contribute in large numbers until next spring. The state is committed to conserving the population of walleyes born in 2013 to improve and rebuild a sustainable population for the future.

      Q: Why do we count hooking mortality during a closed walleye season?

      A: The amount that state anglers can kill (as spelled out in state-bands agreements) also must include fish that die as a result of hooking mortality, the fish that die after being caught and then released back into the water. During the closure, some anglers still catch walleye incidentally and some of those fish die after being released. Under the state-band agreements, those dead fish must be calculated and counted against the state’s allocation.

      Q: How did this cooperative management between the state and the bands of Mille Lacs Lake come to be?   

      A: Recall that in 1999, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld lower-court decisions that allowed the Mille Lacs band and seven other Chippewa bands to exercise off-reservation fishing and hunting rights. The lower federal court also set up guidelines, known as stipulations and protocols, for both sides to follow. These stipulations and protocols provide a framework for how the bands and the state must work cooperatively to manage shared natural resources, including Mille Lacs fish.  In their agreements, the DNR and the bands are required to annually establish the number of walleye that can safely be harvested from Mille Lacs while ensuring sufficient remaining walleye in the lake for a healthy fishery.

      Q: If the walleye population is in decline, why are anglers catching so many?

      A: Fish are biting for two reasons. First, there is a shortage of food for larger walleye. Last fall’s assessment showed that larger walleye were thinner than average. Second, studies in many fisheries show that catchability actually increases when fish population decline.

      In Mille Lacs, walleye congregate in preferred spots rather than disperse evenly throughout the lake. Fewer fish in the lake means there’s more room in the preferred spots for fish to gather, and anglers find these spots where they can catch a larger portion of fish. Finally, while the walleye population has decreased considerably (by half or more), the amount of fishing pressure has declined by a lot more. This means that there are more walleye per angler fishing Mille Lacs today.

      Q: How is the DNR using science and research to help the walleye population?

      A: Mille Lacs Lake is the most studied lake in Minnesota. It is also a complex and changing system. The agency conducts a large number of surveys on the lake annually. These surveys include assessing the abundance of young walleye; setting 52 nets to assess adult abundance; using fine-mesh nets each summer to determine abundance of food (prey fish) for walleye; and using interviews with anglers around the lake (called creel surveys) to estimate the number of fish anglers are catching. The DNR also periodically tags walleye and other species to provide actual population estimates. We are tagging bass this year in cooperation with angling groups, and will be tagging walleye in 2018 and 2019 when the 2013 year class will be reaching full maturity.

      Q: What is the purpose of the external review the DNR has initiated?

      A: The DNR has asked Dr. Chris Vandergoot to lead an independent review of the DNR’s scientific approaches to manage Mille Lacs Lake. Vandergoot is a key member of the international team that co-manages a very significant walleye fishery in Lake Erie. He works for the U.S. Geological Survey in the Sandusky Lake Erie Biological station in Ohio. His review report will be available to the public in early 2018 and will help inform fisheries management decisions for the 2018 season.

      Q: What does the future look like for Mille Lacs walleye?

      A: It is unlikely that Mille Lacs walleye production will return to the levels that state anglers enjoyed over 20 years ago.  The ecosystem of Mille Lacs is going through extreme change, starting with increased water clarity in the mid-1990s, to impacts today from aquatic invasive species such as spiny water flea and zebra mussels. Longer growing seasons are also helping some species such as smallmouth bass but may be hurting others. While walleye will still be abundant, the future fishery will be more diverse, offering angling opportunities for a greater variety of fish.

      ###
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