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FishingWebGuy

Pistol nonsense during archery season

93 posts in this topic

I sure hope some year they clear this up. I found this in the '09 regs again.

Quote:
"The “Concealed carry or permit to carry” provisions apply to certain hunting activities. Persons with a permit under this law generally

may carry their handguns uncased and loaded while hunting, and while traveling to or from hunting locations by motor vehicle under the hunting firearms transportation laws. However, possession of the handgun while 'shining' or while hunting deer by archery would still subject the possessor to the provisions of these laws"

It just makes no sense to me. What could the purpose possibly be of not allowing law abiding citizens to carry under their permit while hunting deer by archery?

What defines "hunting deer by archery"? Carrying a tag and bow?

So with a permit a person can carry anywhere in the state except Federal buildings and oh yea while carrying a bow and deer tag during archery season? So if I ditch the bow or tag I can carry? I am having a real hard time finding any logic in this.

If I wanted to poach a deer with a pistol, why would I buy a tag? And why would I carry my bow with me?

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Found some definitions. Now I'm even more confused.

Quote:

97B.211 HUNTING BIG GAME BY ARCHERY.

Subdivision 1.Possession of firearms prohibited.

A person may not take deer by archery while in possession of a firearm.

...

97A.015 DEFINITIONS.

...

Subd. 19.Firearm.

"Firearm" means a gun that discharges shot or a projectile by means of an explosive, a gas, or compressed air.

...

Subd. 26.Hunting.

"Hunting" means taking birds or mammals.

...

So a person can carry except when actually "taking" the animal?

"Here son, hold my pistol while I put an arrow through this deer..." Now I'm legal?

Sorry about the rant. Just really confused...

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Ok, so I can't hand the pistol to my son I guess

Quote:

97A.015 DEFINITIONS.

...

Subd. 47.Taking.

"Taking" means pursuing, shooting, killing, capturing, trapping, snaring, angling, spearing, or netting wild animals, or placing, setting, drawing, or using a net, trap, or other device to take wild animals. Taking includes attempting to take wild animals, and assisting another person in taking wild animals.

...

So now I'm back to. If your gonna poach with a pistol, you better not have your bow and tag with you. Oh wait. Poaching is illegal by definition regardless of what you carry with you. Good work legislature this law makes no sense and only penalizes the law abiding.

I'll email Rep. Dill and see what he thinks.

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You don't.

But maybe you don't want to leave it in your truck while you're out. Or unguarded in your camp.

You want it in your backpack so you can keep control of it as they teach you to when you take your class.

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This is funny, I was looking into this the other day. The reason why I would want to carry a pistol with me when I am archery hunting is simple... bears. I have only been archery hunting for four years, and twice now I have had bears walk up to my ground blind. Once was a single bear, and the other was a cub and a mother bear.

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I don't "need" a handgun for archery hunting. But if I want to carry one, I am able to nearly anywhere else in the state. People have been intentionally shot and shot at while hunting before. Why could I defend myself in all situations except when I am taking deer during archery season?

If carrying a gun is illegal, then it's illegal. But saying it's illegal only while archery hunting for deer is silly. I can carry in the state capital but I can't carry in the middle of the woods while archery hunting for deer.

The law is overstepping...

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Do you suppose it's possible this is just one of those times something slipped through the cracks? Maybe it hasn't been brought up before and overlooked when the MN carry laws were modified.

Notice I did not refer to it as a conceal carry law as you have incorrectly identified it. We need to get off that media hype in Minnesota. It is a carry law and nothing more.

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Notice I did not refer to it as a conceal carry law as you have incorrectly identified it. We need to get off that media hype in Minnesota. It is a carry law and nothing more.

That is definitely not my language. That is the DNR's language in the regs.

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The bear arguement is WEAK. Plenty of hikers and unarmed walkers out there that need NO protection from black bears.

The only people that I have read about being attacked by black bears in MN or WI have been gun deer hunters in drives in November. interesting??

I turkey hunt(north of the cities), deer and grouse hunt in the fall and have seen bears just twice both times they had no interest in humans and in fact moved away once they detected me.

I side with the conceal and carry arguement though. If licensed to conceal and carry, then you should be able to have it in your possession. Maybe "cased and/or unloaded" would be a solution, but then this just increases the number of rules to be followed and confusion by many including enforcement.

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Does anyone have any insight into the logic for the law?

The only thing I can think of is they don't want people finishing deer off with a pistol or setting the bow down and opting for a pistol shot. Both would already be illegal whether they have a pistol or not.

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I'm with you FWG, this seems like a pointless law. You can say the bear argument is weak but I have had several close encounters with bears in the fall, most of the time they run and I don't feel that I am in any real danger but I would certinaly like to have a pistol with me for peace of mind, and I would like to carry one just because I can, do I really need an excuse? The kicker is if you are archery hunting for bear you can carry a pistol, just not with deer. It really makes you wonder how many poachers they catch using a pistol while archery hunting, I would suspect that number to be very very low.

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I too agree with the question. There is no valid reason to deny a bow hunter the option to carry his handgun, permit notwithstanding. It is is not unlawful to carry a handgun at that time of year for purposes of hunting or target shooting, it should be legal to carry whether you have a permit or not.

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wooopps.......

It has to come down yo a poaching thing in the end. That and it clears up a grey area. Back when there was an early firearms antlerless season I would bowhunt a peticular local farm just to score a buck while the others were moving the does around (by archery). I stoped when one of the guys in the group went out with both so he could shoot a buck if one came by with the bow and a doe with the shot gun. He figured he would just hide the "other weapon" and come back for it if he had to drag one out.

Like it or not, there are those amongst us who are honest because they have to be. If given the oprotunity, they will cheat.

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I don't have a problem with the law. It keeps law abiding people from being tempted from popping off a few rounds at deer while they are supposed be bowhunting. To me it's no different than the laws that restrict having guns in the car when your a shining, or laws that say you can't have an open booze container sitting next to you while you drive....they just help you do the right thing by making it illegal to tempt yourself. It also makes it easier for law enforcement to write tickets to the lawbreakers.

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There are a couple other thing that not to many people consider in this debate...

The first is... As long as you dont give the CO a reason to "pat you down" you shouldn't have to worry about it. IF you are wearing it concealed. So just don't open carry the gun.

The second is... The .40 I carry, the 9mm, or the .380 that others carry is not capable of putting down a deer clean at distance. An ETHICAL hunter would/should know that, the power platform is just to low. There is a BIG differance in the .40 I carry everyday, and the .357 I shoot deer with.

The law also say's you can not discarge a bow more that 30min after sunset, but how many of us have shot deer 45min after? Or later? I don't like to talk about it, but in my younger days, on two (2) occasions I have shot wounded deer a second time by flashlight/spotlight several HOURS after sunset. Am I proud of it, NO!, but I did what I felt was right by the deer. Anyone of us who bowhunts may run into that situation, and I hope they would do the same.

Sometimes there should be a 'grey' area or two, like shooting a wounded deer with a spotlight, or a person with a legal permit to carry to carry in the field. As was said above, you are legaly obligated to be in control of that weapon at all times. In your truck at the side of the road or the parking area is not secure, or "in control". I think I could deal with the consecuences of getting a ticket for having a carry gun along on a bowhunt. But I would not want to deal with the possible ramifications of having a situation come up were I needed it and it was not there. We all have to toe the line sometimes, and sometimes we have to cross that line a little.... It is what it is.

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Just to clarify a potential barrage of posts..

Neighbor_guy is saying he has shot a wounded deer via spotlight with a BOW.

As it reads I could see some confusion in that with the title of the post perhaps a reader may feel he has shot via spotlight with a pistol. That is not the case.

Just an FYI. Just in case.

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There are a couple other thing that not to many people consider in this debate...

The first is... As long as you dont give the CO a reason to "pat you down" you shouldn't have to worry about it. IF you are wearing it concealed. So just don't open carry the gun.

The second is... The .40 I carry, the 9mm, or the .380 that others carry is not capable of putting down a deer clean at distance. An ETHICAL hunter would/should know that, the power platform is just to low. There is a BIG differance in the .40 I carry everyday, and the .357 I shoot deer with.

The law also say's you can not discarge a bow more that 30min after sunset, but how many of us have shot deer 45min after? Or later? I don't like to talk about it, but in my younger days, on two (2) occasions I have shot wounded deer a second time by flashlight/spotlight several HOURS after sunset. Am I proud of it, NO!, but I did what I felt was right by the deer. Anyone of us who bowhunts may run into that situation, and I hope they would do the same.

Sometimes there should be a 'grey' area or two, like shooting a wounded deer with a spotlight, or a person with a legal permit to carry to carry in the field. As was said above, you are legaly obligated to be in control of that weapon at all times. In your truck at the side of the road or the parking area is not secure, or "in control". I think I could deal with the consecuences of getting a ticket for having a carry gun along on a bowhunt. But I would not want to deal with the possible ramifications of having a situation come up were I needed it and it was not there. We all have to toe the line sometimes, and sometimes we have to cross that line a little.... It is what it is.

So what situations are you referring to that might warrant the necessity to have a pistol along?

If your answer is to protect you from a potential bear encounter, I beg to ask...if your .40, 9mm, or common .380 is not adequate to take down a deer then it certainly will not protect you in the case of a bear encounter unless you're extremely lucky or very, very, good.

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I don't have a problem with the law. It keeps law abiding people from being tempted from popping off a few rounds at deer while they are supposed be bowhunting. To me it's no different than the laws that restrict having guns in the car when your a shining, or laws that say you can't have an open booze container sitting next to you while you drive....they just help you do the right thing by making it illegal to tempt yourself. It also makes it easier for law enforcement to write tickets to the lawbreakers.

Yea, I can't believe a person can carry in a grocery store either. The temptation to shoot all those nicely lined up cans on the shelf is unbearable. 911 must be flooded with call of those gun carriers getting tempted.

Edit: charliepete sorry, I know sarcasm isn't the best way to communicate. I respect your opinion. I just greatly disagree with it. The list of things that could be outlawed, because someone MAY break the law, is endless. That was my only point. Some people are tempted to abuse their spouse, but I wouldn't accept any law that says we can't have wives or that I couldn't be alone with mine. smile

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I think that saying you need to take a pistol into a deer stand for protection is pretty rediculous. There is no way you will ever convince me that you need it for protection in a DEER STAND! I don't disagree that one souldn't have to restrict that, but you know the truth of the matter.

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SapperACE,

I would congratulate you on having gone through life without being involved in an uncomfortable confrontation. Deer Stand or not... people carry a handgun for protection from a variety of different elements. I know several people who have had extremely unfortunate contacts while bowhunting. And I am not talking about with bears or other animals.

I carry a Handgun with me 24/7/365. I know hundreds of others who do also.

Sure while I am in a Deer Stand.. I am high in the sky and wouldnt need it. But its that walk to and from, or the discovery of someone sitting in your truck after coming back from that deer stand, that makes one appreciate being able to have that extra protection. just in case.

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It must be a rough life living in constant fear. While I do agree that you should have the right to carry 24/7/365 and it must not be infringed I question any average citizen that claims they need to for protection. I think that's getting out there too far toward paranoia. At the same time, if God forbid a situation should present itself and someone that lived that way was there to control it, I could honestly say that I would have egg on my face.

I just think we are far, far more likely to be saved by the seat belt in our car than by carrying or being with someone that carries and I don't agree with our seatbelt laws.

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I think that saying you need to take a pistol into a deer stand for protection is pretty rediculous. There is no way you will ever convince me that you need it for protection in a DEER STAND! I don't disagree that one souldn't have to restrict that, but you know the truth of the matter.

Incidents have happened. Everyone remembers the Vang incident in WI years ago. Being unarmed and shot in the back doesn't sound like a good ending to a hunting trip.

With that said. I think you're right. Chances are very good that you will never "need" one. On the other hand, I've never been injured in a car accident but I still wear my seat belt. My house has never been on fire but I still have fire extinguishers.

If something were to happen in the woods, it just sucks that some legislature has already made the decision that I need to be an unarmed victim because I am a law abiding citizen who happens to be archery deer hunting. Simply nonsense to me...

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I'm sure you can find thousands of examples for a lot of things but with regard to seatbelts, car insurance, smoke alarms, etc; were it not for the fact that we have laws that require those things my guess is that you along with most of society wouldn't be using them but the truth is all of those conditions are far more likely to happen than having to need a pistol to protect one's self from other hunters or people afield.

I agree that you should be able to carry. I just think you're reaching by your reason for wanting to do so.

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