Went fishin last night

[hidepounder]

In my opinion BAN THE BREED!!!!!!

This breed has been bred over the years to attack and kill. They might be great and then something can set them off out of the blue.

what is your education in canines?? or just another armchair quarterback with no real first hand knowledge spouting ignorance??...i suppose you believe dobermanns brains grow to big for thier skull and they go crazy too ...breeding for animal aggression(gamebred or other) & selectively bred for human aggressive traits are two different things...dogs don't just get "set off out of the blue"...only people that don't have knowledge of canine psychology think that...i'll explain below what most likely did it...

again the neighbors didn't have a proper containment fence...HUMAN ERROR in reponsibility...the boy had a hold of the other dog...which bull breeds can be dog aggressive but not all...so in this instance its the other dog that initially excited thier am staff coming into/or towards its yard, not the boy per se and dogs will redirect which unfortunately it was the boy...ex; police k9's or professional manwork sport dogs etc while in training will redirect on the handlers once in a while, not uncommen...which doesn't equate to the dog purposely making a point to attack the handler per se...its redirecting the excitement/energy thats built up from another stimuli...

also human error on the other side is the parents of the kid & dog which had no containment fence for thiers either...so thier dog got loose initiating it originally when it went across the street...all the while the parents weren't supervising thier 6 year old child out with thier loose dog etc...kid could of been hit by a car going after his dog just as well & been killed/injured...like elk river said, dogs of any breed are animals and should ALWAYS be supervised with children at all times...

could of all of this been avoided with commensense responsibility measures on both sides??...certainly it could have...

[B-man715]

The breeds most likely to kill

In recent years, the dogs responsible for the bulk of the homicides are pit bulls and Rottweilers:

"Studies indicate that pit bull-type dogs were involved in approximately a third of human DBRF (i.e., dog bite related fatalities) reported during the 12-year period from 1981 through1992, and Rottweilers were responsible for about half of human DBRF reported during the 4 years from 1993 through 1996....[T]he data indicate that Rottweilers and pit bull-type dogs accounted for 67% of human DBRF in the United States between 1997 and 1998. It is extremely unlikely that they accounted for anywhere near 60% of dogs in the United States during that same period and, thus, there appears to be a breed-specific problem with fatalities." (Sacks JJ, Sinclair L, Gilchrist J, Golab GC, Lockwood R. Breeds of dogs involved in fatal human attacks in the United States between 1979 and 1998. JAVMA 2000;217:836-840.)

The Clifton study of attacks from 1982 through 2006 produced similar results. According to Clifton study, pit bulls, Rottweilers, Presa Canarios and their mixes were responsible for 65% of the canine homicides that occurred during a period of 24 years in the USA. (Clifton, Dog attack deaths and maimings, U.S. & Canada, September 1982 to November 13, 2006; click here to read it.)

Other breeds were also responsible for homicides, but to a much lesser extent. A 1997 study of dog bite fatalities in the years 1979 through 1996 revealed that the following breeds had killed one or more persons: pit bulls, Rottweilers, German shepherds, huskies, Alaskan malamutes, Doberman pinschers, chows, Great Danes, St. Bernards and Akitas. (Dog Bite Related Fatalities," Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, May 30, 1997, Vol. 46, No. 21, pp. 463 et. seq.) Since 1975, fatal attacks have been attributed to dogs from at least 30 breeds.

The most horrifying example of the lack of breed predictability is the October 2000 death of a 6-week-old baby, which was killed by her family's Pomeranian dog. The average weight of a Pomeranian is about 4 pounds, and they are not thought of as a dangerous breed. Note, however, that they were bred to be watchdogs! The baby's uncle left the infant and the dog on a bed while the uncle prepared her bottle in the kitchen. Upon his return, the dog was mauling the baby, who died shortly afterwards. ("Baby Girl Killed by Family Dog," Los Angeles Times, Monday, October 9, 2000, Home Edition, Metro Section, Page B-5.)

In Canine homicides and the dog bite epidemic: do not confuse them, it has been pointed out that the dog bite epidemic as a whole involves all dogs and all dog owners, not just the breeds most likely to kill.

In all fairness, therefore, it must be noted that:

Any dog, treated harshly or trained to attack, may bite a person. Any dog can be turned into a dangerous dog. The owner or handler most often is responsible for making a dog into something dangerous.

An irresponsible owner or dog handler might create a situation that places another person in danger by a dog, without the dog itself being dangerous, as in the case of the Pomeranian that killed the infant (see above).

Any individual dog may be a good, loving pet, even though its breed is considered to be potentially dangerous. A responsible owner can win the love and respect of a dog, no matter its breed. One cannot look at an individual dog, recognize its breed, and then state whether or not it is going to attack.

To learn more about dog attacks, see Why dogs bite people To learn about how to take some of the bite out of the dog bite epidemic, see Attorney Kenneth Phillips' 10-point plan for Preventing Dog Bites.

Children are the most frequent targets

Studies of dog bite injuries have reported that:

The median age of patients bitten was 15 years, with children, especially boys aged 5 to 9 years, having the highest incidence rate

The odds that a bite victim will be a child are 3.2 to 1. (CDC.)

Children seen in emergency departments were more likely than older persons to be bitten on the face, neck, and head. 77% of injuries to children under 10 years old are facial.

Severe injuries occur almost exclusively in children less than 10 years of age.

The majority of dog attacks (61%) happen at home or in a familiar place.

The vast majority of biting dogs (77%) belong to the victim's family or a friend.

When a child less than 4 years old is the victim, the family dog was the attacker half the time (47%), and the attack almost always happened in the family home (90%).

The face is the most frequent target

Studies also have shown that:

Dog bites result in approximately 44,000 facial injuries in US hospitals each year. This represents between 0.5% and 1.5% of all emergency room visits

The face is the most frequent target (77% of all injures). Mail carriers are an exception where 97% involve the lower extremities.

The central target area for the face includes the lips, nose, and cheeks.

SOURCE:

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html#Thedogsmostlikelytobite

[Sandmannd]

Doesn't sound to me like these dogs were treated harshly and were contained and that he "broke" out of the house.

[hidepounder]

Doesn't sound to me like these dogs were treated harshly and were contained and that he "broke" out of the house.

did you read what i wrote??

also a house within itself is not what i call proper containment as a whole...most dogs can break out through window screens and the thin screen type aluminum doors having those weak latches with out much force or difficulty...also a house leaves many weak links for the potential, generally speaking for any dogs to escape...a proper fence that is high enough not to be climbed & countersunk fencing into the ground to not dig out...with secured gates, preferably a double gate...that is proper containment...

[Sandmannd]

I hear you, but I've left my German Shepard and Beagle in my house for the past seven years. Not once have they gone through a screen, broke a window, broke a door or jumped the fence. They never gone after a soul either. Not saying they won't ever but if they would a sharp smack to the face and they would release. Not the same for PB.

[B-man715]

did you read what i wrote??

also a house within itself is not what i call proper containment as a whole...most dogs can break out through window screens and the thin screen type aluminum doors having those weak latches with out much force or difficulty...also a house leaves many weak links for the potential, generally speaking for any dogs to escape...a proper fence that is high enough not to be climbed & countersunk fencing into the ground to not dig out...with secured gates, preferably a double gate...that is proper containment...

[SM1]

What is the current MN law on this?

No need for a three strikes and your dog is out rule. Why run the risk of a second attack?

I’m not for taking away rights or banning breeds. So the sole responsibility needs to fall on the owner. Sure, have a pit-bull or any other dog if you want but be willing to face stiff penalties if your dog causes harm. Maybe the law should be written so that any damage caused by your dog should be the same as if you did the damage to the (child) yourself. Just take a look at the jaw structure on pit-bull breeds-very powerful, more so than most other dogs. They are built to latch on and hold.

The line comparing dogs to guns is bull. Guns can’t just get up and cause harm!! Dogs can! IMO if a dog bites/attacks- it’s done. No discussion.

I don’t even fully trust my 8 yr old golden around my daughter- and he's one of the friendliest dogs I've been around. If any dog including my own ever caused her harm, lets just say it wouldn’t be pretty for the dog.

If you disagree with what I’m saying, just picture your child with a dog like that latched on an arm, leg or worse their neck!

[hidepounder]

Quote:

I hear you, but I've left my German Shepard and Beagle in my house for the past seven years. Not once have they gone through a screen, broke a window, broke a door or jumped the fence. They never gone after a soul either. Not saying they won't ever but if they would a sharp smack to the face and they would release. Not the same for PB.

the same thing you said with keeping your dogs in the house could be said by the countless bull breed owners...there are millions upon millions of bull breeds kept in the US...its good yours have never escaped out, most don't regardless of breed...but certainly your GSD has the ability & strength too none the less...

german shepherds are notorious biters and can bite just as hard as the bulldogs...hard bites are relative to intent of the dog...they will all bite as hard as they want to...all the k9 decoys i know will confirm this...or ask any perp that was run down & caught by a malinois, dutch shepherd or GSD...they can do equally as much damage...any dog can be taught to release aka "out"...theres the trained & the untrained...

heres what GSD's, malinois & dutch shepherds are capable of...just imagine the damage these hits would do on bare flesh/clothes without the protective suits...a smack on the face as you stated with your shep will not make these sheps release or using brute force alone to pull them off, thats why the "out" is taught...theres strong character and nerved dogs & the weak, genetics...

[hidepounder]

Quote:

The line comparing dogs to guns is bull. Guns can’t just get up and cause harm!! Dogs can!

the meaning was in relation to general prevention...if you want to ban breeds due to the "potential" of harm...then ban all things that have potential to harm...if all guns were confiscated and outlawed then obviously noone could be killed or harmed by guns...preventing thousands upon thousands of needless deaths...vastly more than any breeds of dogs ever do by a long shot...

theres alot of conditions & laws in place for dogs deemed dangerous...here a link to the statutes... https://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/statutes/?topic=177113

[hidepounder]

Wouldn't it be easier to get a breed that doesn't bust through doors to kill little kids............???????????

trying to make a blanket statement to the effect of..."this is what all the bullbreeds do" is again ignorance at its finest...BTW the kid was bit not killed, no reason to exaggerate...

maybe i wasn't clear enough when i explained previously the most likely cause of the dog breaking out, was not the boy...but his loose dog he had ahold of that went into the others yard...

[Sandmannd]

Yea, my shepard probably could break out, she could bit just as hard as well. Shepards don't clamp down and not let go when they bite. I have stuck my arm in her mouth when playing and she will not bite down.

Any animal is capable of an attack or a bite. Doesn't matter the breed or type of animal. Pit Bulls are just record offenders. I don't hear that many attacks from other breads.

[hidepounder]

if you watched that video, you can see the sheps are more than capable of holding just dandy...if they didn't have the jaw power to hold, they wouldn't make very good apprehension dogs now would they?

Quote:

I have stuck my arm in her mouth when playing and she will not bite down.

...the same can be done with any of the bull breeds...

other breeds don't make the headline news because they simply don't pack the WOW factor...a black lab mauls kid, just isn't the same draw as "pitbull" mauls child...sensationalism is what draws ratings & viewers...the same reason you don't hear the positive things the bullbreeds have done...also why the news is so full of murder, rapes & violent crimes in general...

but you will find accounts in online newspapers...but rarely will they make the 5 o'clock televised...

Quote:

3-Year-Old Savaged by Labrador

Lucy Warren-Hill, aged 3, was playing in a neighbor's yard when the neighbor's brown labrador suddenly attacked her. According to one witness Lucy was playing with a toy which the dog tried to grab, becoming agitated the dog then attacked Lucy.

Lucy's grandmother, Jeanette White, said when they brought Lucy in from the garden: "I noticed that her face was covered in blood and her nose and forehead were cut up. Part of her nose looked like it was just coming away from her face."

Mrs White insists the dog should not be put to sleep because of the attack: "He is usually such a friendly dog. It must have been a one-off attack," she said. Lucy will undergo plastic surgery today and is in the Boxal Hospital for Sick Children.

Quote:

Each year, 4.7 million Americans are bitten by dogs. These bites result in approximately 16 fatalities; about 0.0002 percent of the total number of people bitten. These relatively few fatalities offer the only available information about breeds involved in dog bites. There is currently no accurate way to identify the number of dogs of a particular breed, and consequently no measure to determine which breeds are more likely to bite or kill

source the CDC

Quote:

Because of difficulties

inherent in determining a dog’s breed with certainty,

enforcement of breed-specific ordinances raises constitutional

and practical issues. Fatal attacks represent

a small proportion of dog bite injuries to humans and,

therefore, should not be the primary factor driving

public policy concerning dangerous dogs. Many practical

alternatives to breed-specific ordinances exist and

hold promise for prevention of dog bites.

source American Veterinary Medical Association...

[croixflats]

What is the current MN law on this?

No need for a three strikes and your dog is out rule. Why run the risk of a second attack?

I?m not for taking away rights or banning breeds. So the sole responsibility needs to fall on the owner. Sure, have a pit-bull or any other dog if you want but be willing to face stiff penalties if your dog causes harm. Maybe the law should be written so that any damage caused by your dog should be the same as if you did the damage to the (child) yourself. Just take a look at the jaw structure on pit-bull breeds-very powerful, more so than most other dogs. They are built to latch on and hold.

The line comparing dogs to guns is bull. Guns can?t just get up and cause harm!! Dogs can! IMO if a dog bites/attacks- it?s done. No discussion.

I don?t even fully trust my 8 yr old golden around my daughter- and he's one of the friendliest dogs I've been around. If any dog including my own ever caused her harm, lets just say it wouldn?t be pretty for the dog.

If you disagree with what I?m saying, just picture your child with a dog like that latched on an arm, leg or worse their neck!

You are very right on the three strike rule when a dog attacks the dog goes by by. What I meant to say is an aggressive breed should be registered when that registered dog has a reported aggressive act like charging a fence or a bite it becomes an offense and a strike against the dog and owner and the owner gets the chance to correct it if by the 3rd strike it is not corrected dog goes by by. I dont care if the dog is on a log chain and charges and cant get off it still is an aggressive dog with traits to harm. Communities should not have that its only a matter of time that dog does something wrong.

And any breed can be put on the list if it is aggressive just takes one offense to be put on that list.

[croixflats]

Just heard the dog that did this is still at home with the owners. Sorry, I dont care if this dog was raised right or not the dog gets put down. If my dog did that, I shuter at the aspect of my dog doing something like that, darn right it would be down that day.

[bullyfish]

Hidepounder...

Thank you for your defense of the bully breeds. I peronally have a 85 pound bulldog and have had to deal with people giving me dirty looks when we go for a walk. I hear the whispers of "why would anyone own a dog like that" and it drives me nuts. These people can't tell the diffrence between a pitty and an "english" bulldog? I have a friend who actully thought a LAB was a pitbull because it had a square head, broad shoulders, and a short muzzle. Clueless...but hey...she is all for breed bans!?!?

Also, I can't tell you the number of times my dog has been bitten in the face by little dogs. The owners laugh and say that their dog has "attitude." So funny when the little dog bites the big bad bulldog. It probably wouldn't be as funny if my dog turned around and bit their dog back.

The problem I see with "bull breeds" is that for whatever reason, it has become some kind of macho status symbol for unsavory types of people to own them. When you have irresponsible owners you end up with damaged, and poorly bred dogs. It is so much easier to blame the dog instead of taking a long hard look at some of the people who breed/have them.

Again...Thanks!

Bullyfish

[HwthaMatt]

Hidepounder is putting up a spirited defense that's for sure. Sounds like a responsible owner and I applaud that. I have a couple of stories on the subject. While down in Arkansas a couple years ago I met guy that was a bail/bondsman. He went to a house to take somebody in and when he got out of the car a pitbull was instantly on him. It LOCKED onto his knee and just started shaking. He was carrying at the time and pulled out his weapon to shoot when the owner came running out with a big pry bar and yelled not to shoot the dog. Turns out the owner had filed all of the teeth down to nothing and it was sort of harmless. Is it true that the unique physiology of this breed makes for particularly vicious bites? They have a lock jaw?

Second story is about my best friend Roman the golden lab. We rescued him from the shelter and had him for five years, just a great dog. Always great with kids and crowds. My wife had him out one day and someone leaned down to pet him and he bit the woman on the arm and it was bad. We paid for all her medical bills and did the whole police report and our dog was declaired "potentially dangerous" We took this seriously and got some sort of dog psychologist and took training classes but neither of us really trusted Roman after this. A few months go by and we had people over at our house for a board game night and one of our friends leaned down to pet him and was grazed with a bite. No blood. That was it. We took him out to the country and let him run around and get his fun in and pampered him for a couple days then took him to the vet to be put down. It makes me sad as I type this but never did I second guess this decision.

All dogs have the potential to be dangerous. Certain ones have an increased capacity to inflict major trauma. And even more, certain breeds went through centuries, if not longer of selected breeding to attack and kill.

Maybe we should ban these types of dogs just for a couple of centuries while we breed this out of them.

[TUMBLEWEED]

Statistic's don't always tell the whole story.

While I am a believer in the definition of dog breeds

examined in the fatal attack study, some equally

important FACTs, would be ownership resposibility

and ownership handling conditions that lead up

to the event itself.

Canines, especially dogs,are very prone to condtioning.

How they are socialized and raised, has such a huge

impact of how they act and live. It is something that

is often taken for granted and bad behavoirs are started.

Also present are the actual bloodlines of the animal.

Traits and habits can be passed down the generations

so there is some inheirant risk with certain breeds

in special circumstances. That is the rub with animals

that have certain tendancies.

Hold the owner and not the breed responsible. I am on the

fence for more regulations on certain breeds. It is not

simply go buy a puppy....

[HwthaMatt]

Bullyfish,

You are right that it is easier to blame the breed than the people who own them.they can't speak up. Not right as far as I am concerned. I tend to be on the side of the fence that is for a ban but it is also no good to penalize responsible owners. I think our influential leaders, whoever they are, are afraid to confront those who own these dogs for "status". I know the stereotype, and I see it walk down the block all the time. I lived in an apartment building where a family had two pitbulls. Bought as gifts for the kids. No joke. These things were crazy and under no control. They were fun for my new puppy at the time since the pits were puppies too but glad I am out of there now.

[bullyfish]

There is some misinformation floating around this post...

Bull breed dogs jaws do NOT lock.

Bull breeds were bred to fight other animals. They were also bred to be extremely loyal/non-aggressive towards people. This was so the owner could enter "the pit" to retrieve the dog after the fight. Anyone who knows dogs, understands that a dog that is in pain/afraid is more likely to bite, so any dog that showed any aggression towards people at all was destroyed immediately.

Because of their loyalty towards children the pitbull was also called the "nanny dog." Pete from the Little Rascals was a pitty, so was Helen Kellers dog...the Buster Brown dog was a pit.

People make dogs aggressive. This may mean bad breeding or bad behavior. HythaMatt said a pitty attacked a bailbondsman. The OWNER had filed the dogs teeth down. Now, imagine if someone filed your teeth down without anesthetic, you may be aggressive too? There is more to that story...

Any dog can bite. I feel for the family and the little boy. I think the dog who bit him shoud be put to sleep. But lets not make huge blanket statements about an entire breed of dogs. If you want to know which dog bites the most...ask a vet. My vet told me that the dog (breed) that he has the most trouble with aggressive behavior is cocker spaniels and he has the scars to prove it...go figure?

[HwthaMatt]

Thanks for the info. I had heard the lock theory but didn't know if it was true. I looked into it more and that is correct.

No locking jaws, just a myth. It turns out that they are just super determined to hang on to their prey once they latch on. Not sure if that is much better.

Interesting though the amount of websites there are defending pitbulls and debunking myth. I too have heard that the spaniel is one of the dog responsible for the most bites. That or labs. Both are super common and mostly around kids/families. Obviously there is a difference between a cocker spaniel bite and a pitbull bite.

[TUMBLEWEED]

One of my dogs is an English Mastiff. I was warned by the breeder, of teaming up two males as they are more apt

to get into trouble.

Can't imagine two pits with a clueless owner. Pack

mentality sets in and now you have a real problem.

I read in the story that there were more then one

pit at the neighbors. Clearly a red flag in my opinion.

We wish the boy and his family a speedy recovery.

[hidepounder]

Hidepounder...

Thank you for your defense of the bully breeds.

Bullyfish

your welcome man...i don't keep bulldogs myself but i have experience with them & have been involved with real working k9's for around 14 years...

[elkrivermn]

There has been some real good feedback on the issue from both sides. Being that I do not own a dog I would like to ask you folks a question. Why do people want to own a pit bull, rottweiler or other bad butt dogs? I can figure out why a owner chooses a lab, pointer ect. for hunting purposes possibly. To me it seems easier to get a couple golfish or a rabbit or even maybe a frog or two.So I thought it would be helpfull for me to get some feedback.

Thanks!

[Weed Shark]

There has been some real good feedback on the issue from both sides. Being that I do not own a dog I would like to ask you folks a question. Why do people want to own a pit bull, rottweiler or other bad butt dogs? I can figure out why a owner chooses a lab, pointer ect. for hunting purposes possibly. To me it seems easier to get a couple golfish or a rabbit or even maybe a frog or two.So I thought it would be helpfull for me to get some feedback.

Thanks!

Pit Bulls have a bred-in instinct for aggression and mauling. People are foolish who think they can change Mother Nature.

The answer to your question is egos and macho needs. Unfortunately, kids like 6 year old Zack pay the massive price.