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311Hemi

Really?? New way to hunt deer?

32 posts in this topic

Man....does this #$%# me off!!!

Quote:
Felony charges dismissed in snowmobile deer kill

By The Associated Press

Posted: Jun. 12, 2009

Waupaca - Five felony charges of cruelty to animals have been dismissed against a man accused of running over and killing some deer with his snowmobile.

Robby Kuenzi's attorney convinced a Waupaca County judge Thursday that because the defendant was hunting at the time of the incident, state law prohibits animal cruelty charges.

Judge John Hoffman conceded and dismissed the felonies. Kuenzi still faces several ordinance violations and four misdemeanors, including hunting out of season.

Kuenzi's brother, Rory, and Nicholas Hermes face similar charges. Four deer were found dead along a snowmobile trail south of Waupaca on Jan. 10, and a fifth had to be euthanized.

Quote:

Deer cruelty charges dismissed

Updated: Friday, 12 Jun 2009, 6:43 PM CDT

Published : Thursday, 11 Jun 2009, 1:34 PM CDT

WAUPACA - There was no defendant or defense attorney present, but several community members still filled the Waupaca County court room.

The hearing held by teleconference was for Nicholas Hermes, one of the three defendants accused of using snowmobiles to run over and kill a group deer.

"With that vicious behavior they deserve felony charges," said Virginia Niemuth, who owns the land where the deer were killed in the Town of Lind.

Niemuth went to the hearing after she heard felony charges were dropped against another defendant, Robby Kuenzi. A judge ruled that Kuenzi was hunting out of season and therefore there can be no cruelty to animals.

"I couldn't believe it that they said you could go hunting with a snowmobile," said Niemuth. "I mean that's ridiculous."

Robby Kuenzi's attorney, Thomas Johnson, says the lawyer for his client's brother, Rory Kuenzi, plans to make a similar defense. Hermes' attorney said in the hearing he will do the same.

"The state charged in the misdemeanor file several hunting violations against Mr. Kuenzi. Hunting out of season, hunting without a licence," said Johnson. "Obviously the state contends they were in the act of hunting so it can't be considered cruelty to animals."

The Assistant District Attorney for Waupaca County said they are in the process of filing an appeal with the Attorney General's office. Something he says could make all three of these cases last quite a bit longer.

"If it goes to the state Supreme Court, we could be looking at a year and a half until we have a resolution to anything," said Jim Fassbender. "We are in a procedural no-man's land where I've never been before."

While Hermes and Rory Kuenzi are still facing felony charges, the misdemeanor charges filed against all the defendants still hold up to 9 months in jail and thousands of dollars in fines for each count.

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Robby Kuenzi's attorney convinced a Waupaca County judge Thursday that because the defendant was hunting at the time of the incident, state law prohibits animal cruelty charges.

Seems interesting that someone poaching is considered, in the eye's of the law, to be hunting. So i guess we can now say that poachers have rights too. crazy

Edit:

I guess next we'll see Kuenzi sue the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources for being negligent in not having a poachers handbook

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Same on the criminals themselves, shame on the lawyers (who are actually doing their job, but still shame on them) and the biggest shame is on the judges. Unbelievable. The criminals here are what they are, and will always be. Losers. But I sure thought judges would use sound judgement... or at least should. This guy is a loser, IMHO.

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Pay attention to the names, you will see them again.

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I wonder if I was caught speeding in Wisconsin if that judge would buy that I was just racing.

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Its too bad the judge couldn't distinguish between hunting and a sick act, but like it or not his decision was right.

That same wordage protects us as hunters from some of those groups that would like to see hunting a thing of the past.

However there is more then one way to skin a cat.

Take away the snowmobiles. Charge them with hunting outside a season, wanton waste, shinning deer, and every other law they violated.

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This was the State's fault - they charged them with hunting violations so in essence they put the idea into the defense attorney's head.

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I think the State got it right here... hunting violations allows the State to forfeit the "hunting equipment" used to kill the animals.

Without the game violations the snowmobiles (and trucks if they carried the sleds to the location) would not be subject to forfeiture.

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If this is hunting or even poaching for thst matter why were the deer left along a snowmobile trail. At least a real poacher would have a rack on the wall or some hindquarters in the freezer. I just don't see anything that could classify this as hunting. This judge has his head stuck somewhere smelly. I hope they hit them with every other game violation they can and I hope they have forfeited they're sleds.

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I think the State got it right here... hunting violations allows the State to forfeit the "hunting equipment" used to kill the animals.

Without the game violations the snowmobiles (and trucks if they carried the sleds to the location) would not be subject to forfeiture.

I believe they could still seize the equipment used in the commission of a crime in this case.

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What would the felony counts get these guys in terms of punishment? A lot of time first time offenders get off with little or no jail time. Maybe a fine and probation, or a couple months in lock up.

The hunting violations could potentially open them up to significantly more fines and loss of privelages and also the loss of the snowmobiles, trucks, trailers, etc.

I can't say what the exact punishments would be for each but it is possible that by charging them with hunting violations they could actually end up getting a harsher punishment. I'm guessing these guys aren't rolling in the cash so the loss of a truck, snowmobile and lots of fines could really screw them over for a lot longer time then doing a year or two in jail.

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I don't think it makes a difference as far as whether these were hunting violations or not. The state can seize anything used while commiting a felony. I think that while all the hunting violations carry some pretty stiff fines and penalties the felony would have given a much larger sentencing recomendation. I think that a felony charge probobly would have given the judge some discretion as to fining them and with the public outrage over this they would most likely get the maximum which I can imagine is pretty hefty. Also a felony would have prevented them from holding a gun anytime soon which pretty much takes care of them hunting anytime in the near future as well as being a convicted felon does'nt help you out on a job aplication. I think the bottom line is felony would have screwed things up for them more in the long term.

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Only certain felonies allow forfeitures, and cruelty to animals is not one of them. I didn't notice this was WI, and really don't know if its the same over there- and I don't mean to dispute legal technicalities that I have no desire to go and research, but why would anyone complain about taxpayers paying less to feed and house these guys in jail when the state can hit em where it hurts- their pocketbooks. Sure felonies allow bigger fines, but I think the judge will find a way to make sure the community recoups its losses and then some. Taking those sleds, trucks, and trailers makes a great headline and sends a hell of a message to the rest of the idiots out there.

These guys are obviously idiots and have little respect for our natural resources, but I don't think society benefits by paying to keep these guys in jail. Make 'em pay, and make 'em pay big. Let them be shamed by the community -in the community- and serve as an example to the rest of the idiots out there who think they can get away with anything in the woods or on the water. Tar and feather, not hide and shelter.

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Yeah you do make a good point, I really don't want to pay for these guys to sit in jail either. I could rant about jackasses like these guys all day. Maybe we should have simple laws like singapore and they could pull down they're pants and take a good caining!

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something tells me that these guys will one way or another get what they got coming to them. I'm sure that anyone able to do something like this has the same attitude towards other aspects of there lives. They will no doubt cross the wrong person one day. What goes around comes around..

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I am not surprised, look at the guy who raped a five year old in Oklahoma, he got one year. Stallworth one month for his actions. Why even have a court system anymore, lets just have a free for all. mad

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Get a good enough attorney, and you can get out of anything these days. We did it to ourselves. There seems to be no responsibility or accountability taken for what we do wrong in our society. Everyone wants to place the blame on someone else, or find some technicallity that they can get off on.

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these guys arent first time offenders - the 2 brothers have previous arrests for domestic assault, theft, etc.

People from the area know them VERY well - they are the troublemakers who pick fights, dont care about anything/anyone, etc.

The State blew this one. They tried throwing the book at them and it ended up backfiring. I hope they end up in jail for a couple of years but unlikely. They'll get their prison time eventually, just not from this incident.

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So in other words, if I purposely run over a dog I can call it hunting out of season? How 'bout a horse? What's the difference between a wild animal and domestic as far as cruelty to animals?! This just doesn't make sense.

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Really makes you think twice about our elected and appointed officials. Might be time to get rid of one Judge in Wisconsin???

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So in other words, if I purposely run over a dog I can call it hunting out of season? How 'bout a horse? What's the difference between a wild animal and domestic as far as cruelty to animals?! This just doesn't make sense.

You can legally shoot cats in MN year round. In Wisonsin, you cannot. Cats are protected believe it or not. crazy

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