Mn Metro Tourny Results???

[squeedunk]

I thought you could use a witness from within your boat if needed. I would consider anything more than shouting or waving my arms to a nearby boat enough reason to just have my partner sign it. I thought they didn't want any fish being transported?

I guess this guy was alone though. Either way, you could put the thing back in the water (in the net) and wait for somebody to drive by.

The guy on Owasso with the 48" was not fishing alone.

[JRedig]

During this experience, if some musky elitist had rolled up in his Ranger and talked down to me, called me stupid, lectured me, etc. I probably would have told him to beat it, punched him in the nose, and mentioned that I had every legal right to eat my catch for dinner. Same thing if they had posted how stupid I was on a web site such as this. And I'd be eating musky every night for dinner to this day. As it was, I had no such encounter, realized I was totally unprepared for catching a big fish, spent my kids' college savings on the proper gear, and handle fish properly.

This sport is exploding in popularity, and not everyone has the time/money/energy/education to hit the lake for the first time with the proper gear. I can't count the number of times that I've helped guys who were obviously underprepared to land/handle fish. I always approach them gently and humbly, Can I help you at all? etc. I have always been well received and taken the opportunity to do a little bit of educating.

I can't do anything but agree with you, not really the topic at hand here though...I too have helped out quite a few other anglers who catch "accidental's", I always start by asking if they need help, it's usually an overwhelming YES!

We are not talking about people who are new to this sport or new to handling fish. Both parties here had musky sized everything, nets and release tools and have caught quite a few fish, one with 20+ years of experience.

RE: livewells, if you REALLY had to transport the fish (which you don't need to do) and wanted to release it, get gloves, wet them, fill the livewell and keep it's head in the water for the ride. Or at least that's what i'd try. Leaving them in the net and idling along is a better idea, IMO.

#1 rule, you pull that fish out of the water, hold your breath. When you need to breathe, it better have it's head back in the water.

[HugoBox]

After reading all this stuff, I feel compelled to chime in. I've been musky fishin for about 8 years. I don't belong to muskies inc, am not in the inner circle, etc. I started out not knowing much, bought a heavy bass rod, put a baitcaster on it and steel leader on it and throwing bucktails around. Pretty quick, I caught a 48" out of Tonka. Got it in, netted it with my walleye net, put it on the floor of the boat, unhooked it, measured it and took a couple of pictures, all on the floor of the boat. Pretty stupid in hindsight, fish very well may have died. However, I had no malicious intent, I was just uneducated, excited, and a little scared of having my arm eaten off.

During this experience, if some musky elitist had rolled up in his Ranger and talked down to me, called me stupid, lectured me, etc. I probably would have told him to beat it, punched him in the nose, and mentioned that I had every legal right to eat my catch for dinner. Same thing if they had posted how stupid I was on a web site such as this. And I'd be eating musky every night for dinner to this day. As it was, I had no such encounter, realized I was totally unprepared for catching a big fish, spent my kids' college savings on the proper gear, and handle fish properly.

This sport is exploding in popularity, and not everyone has the time/money/energy/education to hit the lake for the first time with the proper gear. I can't count the number of times that I've helped guys who were obviously underprepared to land/handle fish. I always approach them gently and humbly, Can I help you at all? etc. I have always been well received and taken the opportunity to do a little bit of educating. Try a little diplomacy, people.

Musky 39 - Well said and your entry into muskies sounds very similar to mine. The only distinction I'd make is that simply by entering a tournament or contest one inherently accepts responsibility to attempt to do right by the fish and shouldn't go the "newbie" route. I would hope that most reasonable folks would exercise ALOT more patience if they see someone who is clearly out of their comfort zone - very similar to helping someone at the access if they don't know what they are doing - either choose to assume that individual is a dumb**s or realize they maybe only get the boat out a few times a year and be a bit paitent.

I didn't fish the tourney so I've tried to keep my opinions to myself, but I wonder if the entry application includes a "DO's and DONT's" checklist for safe, healthy releases.

Total side note but I'm always amazed at some of the photos that Musky Hunter includes at the end of their issues as some of the things that are mentioned as no-no's in the magazine are exactly what they choose to publish.

[DHanson]

I dont understand why people say dont bring the camera out unless its 50 in if you are so dam worked up about people takeing pics of a 40 are what ever size it is then why in the heck would you bring it out for a 5o in. The older the fish gets the more likely it will be to die.

I would never chastise anyone for taking a picture of any kind of fish they wish to do so. For me, it was a personal choice to do mostly water releases. Nobody told me that I should do it this way, nor am I telling anyone else that they should do it this way either. It was just like one day I was out there and decided that this was best for the fish and their odds of survivability will go way up. I would never judge someone on taking ANY fish picture. Certain fish have a lot more meaning to certain people. Heck, I took a pic of a 32" as it was my first of the year and because it was my first WI fish ever. There was meaning behind it.

A 40" is just as easily stressed as a 50". I actually find the bigger fish are a little more relaxed at times while holding than the smaller ones. Not sure if that is coincidence or not.

[bassmann77]

IMO trying to put a head of a 40+ inch fish while trying to keep it still would be very difficult. One is just asking for trouble in doing that. If you don't have the equipment to take a picture, just release the fish. Your true friends will believe what you caught. You can also make marks on the boat to show the size of the fish.

[brad coin]

how much stress would it subjected to sitting in the livewell ???

actually I'll share this from somebody whos known in the muskyworld,,,this is his take/comparison to putting a muskie in a livewell

comparison- you walk out your front door to the sidewalk by the blvd,,,up pulls a van and three guys jump out and beat you to a pulp "the equiv of the fight between angler and muskie",,,then if that isnt bad enough the three guys pick you up and throw you in the van and drive off with ya,,,worse then the beating this is where the stress and paranoia really kick in!!!!

Muskies cant reason of course but I found his comparison amusing

[RK]

Hiya -

Man, lots to consider here.

Musky39, in a roundabout way you get at the exact dilemma when it comes to talking about handling fish. In the end all you can do is educate, and I think when you talk to other anglers about it, especially on the water, you have to do it respectfully. I've written and talked about fish handling a lot over the years. In print especially I'm willing to push a little harder on the issue, very deliberately, in order to get people thinking about the issue. Being a little controversial - a little 'elitist' - is by design to get people's brains working a little bit. But in situations where I'm talking to someone on the water, which I've done many times, it's something to approach pretty delicately unless you know the situation. For the most part people are pretty receptive to a little friendly advice, as long as it's just that and not a lecture.

There have been times, though, when someone I knew really ought to know better handled fish in a pretty careless way, and in those cases I'm not shy about reading the riot act a time or two...

My attitude about fish handling is probably pretty radical to some. I've certainly been called an 'elitist' (and worse) more than once. Maybe I am? I dunno. I've certainly take a lot of heat from some quarters over what I've written and said. That's ok. I can live with it, believe me.

To me though, fish handling is really a pretty simple ethical situation: if you intend to release the fish, the ethical behavior is to make every reasonable effort to make sure the fish survives. That leaves a lot open for judgment and personal choice though. I think if you can hold the fish safely, and do it in a timely manner, there's nothing wrong with taking a quick photo or two if other factors (time unhooking, wind, and water conditions like surface temps) aren't such that more handling will put the fish at risk.

I also think that if there are adverse conditions like high wind, high water temps or a stressed, worn out fish that took forever to unhook, the same photos might border on unethical, and probably go well past unnecessary. There's no one right or wrong scenario - up until the second you do something you know is reducing the fish's chances of survival significantly. Personally, I rarely take fish out of the water at all anymore. I fish with guys who take pictures of nearly every fish the catch, but they're so quick and efficient about it, I don't think they do any more harm to the fish than I do.

I think, though, that when you're putting a fish in the bottom of a boat and driving it around, you're crossing a line there somewhere. I don't care if it's a tournament. My question in cases like that is "would you have handled the fish that way if you were just out fishing for fun on a random Tuesday morning?" If the answer is "no" then why are you doing it now? To me, "it's a tournament" isn't an acceptable answer.

I don't follow the muskie tournament scene much at all. So I was a little surprised at the requirement to transport fish to another boat. I'm frankly a little surprised that it's even allowed. On lakes with a 48" minimum, taking a fish into the boat and transporting a sub-legal fish (even if it's legal for the tournament) could possibly be considered taking the fish into possession, which is a real no-no. To be clear, I don't know if that's the interpretation in this case, but I know that's been the standard in the past. In the DNR regs, immediate release is explicitly defined: Immediately released or returned to the water– Fish must not be retained longer than is needed at the site of capture to unhook, identify, measure, and photograph. Placing the fish in any type of container or on a stringer is not immediately released. Any fish not immediately released is considered to be “reduced to possession.” By that definition, transporting a sub-legal fish to a witness is getting pretty close to being a very sticky situation from a regulations standpoint I think.

I don't know the right answers here, but I will say I really wish tournaments would figure out a way to do this without needing to drag fish around in the bottom of a boat. The new tournament process passed in the last legislative session includes a requirement that tournaments adhere to a best practice process for maximizing fish survival in live release events, and it will be pretty interesting to see what those best practices will look like for muskie and pike events when they're finalized.

Cheers,

Rob Kimm

[dudeness]

Where has everybody got the results for this tourney already?

I looked on the tourney HSOforum and there is nothing. I remember from last year that it took a while. Did everybody go to the weigh in? I am kind of guessing that some of the guys in the money might not want there pics posted up now... if they pay attention to muskie forums that is...

[MLS]

To clarify one thing in Rob's post - the MAC does not want fish transported. If there is not another boat within ear shot a boat partner will suffice as a witness. This is only true for the metro tourney because it is an individual tournament. In team tournaments a MAC board is issued and a photo is taken with that to insure authenticity.

They do a good job of putting the fish first IMO.

[50inchpig]

Tournaments should be held to high standards, if the MAC wants to make it a big thing and advance tournament popularity they'll have to address these issues.

Publicity also comes with criticism.

I'd agree it all sounds good about the fish first but that might not be compatible with the current format. And I'll stop.......................now.

[BoxMN]

I am only part time muskie guy. I use all my brothers stuff, and he pinches the barbs on all his hooks. Still lands fish. With all this talk of proper handling, why do the muskie lure manufactures not all band together and go barbless, 100%? That would help in reducing injury to fish, and quicker releases. (and easier to take hook out of a thumb, too, as I know very well )

I have dropped a 36ish fish in the boat, via learning process, and it shouldn't happen again. Not on purpose, and Iconsider myself rather experienced with other fish, but muskie was new at the time. Now it is knipex, cutting hooks, and keeping in water in huge arse net I agree education is best way.

This has been good thread to read. Entertaining and educational

[50inchpig]

LOL Boxmeyer - If manufactures cared about their hooks we wouldn't have to replace them on half the baits we buy before we throw them!

Nice idea, unless it equals profits/higher sales I don't think it'll happen.

[beatuplund]

To clarify one thing in Rob's post - the MAC does not want fish transported. If there is not another boat within ear shot a boat partner will suffice as a witness. This is only true for the metro tourney because it is an individual tournament. In team tournaments a MAC board is issued and a photo is taken with that to insure authenticity.

They do a good job of putting the fish first IMO.

If they don't want any fish transported, they better think about changing Rule #9: All 40" muskies must be taken immediately to nearest witness not in your boat for measurement and release. (Note the words "taken immediately". To me that means "transported.")

[DHanson]

They are going to need to change some things. I won't fish a muskie tournament structured such as this one. I like how the Mille Lacs MTT is structured, I may fish that one.

[iceman1212]

Why cant I find the results and pics on the metro tournament HSOforum?? Are they somewhere else?

[Quackaddict9]

I'm guessing they have not posted up the results, usually they did it the same day or the next day if I remember right (last year) and photos were posted as well. But this is as far I know on Muskiefirst- they have the list of names, how big the fish is and what lake it was caught on and also a photo gallery from the tournament too, so check them out.

[AnglerX]

I've fished the metro tourney for the last 5 years or so. Just to clarify a fish does not need to be transported. Paul has always put the well being of the fish first and foremost. It is (suggested) that a witness outside your boat help register a fish but if nobody is close enough: a quick measurement, a photo, and a witness inside your boat is enough. At the awards ceremony every year he stresses the fact that healthy release of the fish comes before all else. The last three years my partner and I have caught fish and not been close to anyone else and there has been absolutely no problems as far as registering a fish goes. For those bashing and questioning the ethics of the tournament you probably have never fished one. The metro tournament is a class act through and through, as are all the other Hartman events. For those that did transport fish, which seems to be the issue here I suggest they actually read the rules if they choose to compete again. When it really boils down to it this tournament is set up to be a regular ol' fun day on the water and not some serious event. Just an opportunity to pay a minimal entry fee that supports the fishery and have a good time while you're at it.

[Doonbuggy]

In reading this thread, I find it curious that with all the fellow tournament anglers on Owasso on Saturday, the angler who boated the fish had to go find another boat to help witness the catch.

Seems like it should've been the other way around since everyone supposedly cares about the "resource" so much. But maybe not if the fish isn't in your boat.

DB

[AnglerX]

Excellent point DoonBug! I was within a quarter mile or so when this fish in question was caught and saw someone else helped out. Good for them.... What cracks me up in this whole situation is all the internet experts who, two years ago were asking all the questions, but now have all the answers regarding everything muskie related as far as handling a fish, techniques related to catching a fish, what equipment to use , etc. and then tries to pull the holier than thou attitude. Be it bass, walleyes, nuisance northerns, or other species when you take the fun out of it what is the point? A fish is a fish.. some die, some don't. A muskie isn't any different than any other species. When it comes to respect for the resource. I..... personally treat all fish the same, be it a bullhead, muskie, or carp. They all deserve my respect and will be thrown back gently, CPR'd, or every once in a great while eaten. On a side note I find it quite funny that you muskie felllas have no problem seeing a 20 Lb. Pike held vertically like most are..and not getting up in arms about that. What's the difference??

[RK]

Hiya -

I should have made this clear in my first post, and I'm sorry I didn't, but I really don't think this has anything to do with Paul at all. It was an individual angler that made what I think was a questionable decision. I don't think there are many out there that can say they've done as much to directly improve the fishery as Paul has. His tournaments are a business, and every dime he's spent on stocking fish could have gone right into his pocket and it would have been perfectly legitimate. Instead he chose to support the fishery. I've helped seine his ponds, so I've seen the results first hand.

I still question the way the witness rule is written, as it does, I think, imply that transporting fish is acceptable if not necessary, but that's a technical detail - not any reflection on whether or not Paul cares about the fishery. There's ample evidence he does, very much so.

Cheers,

Rob Kimm

[JRedig]

In reading this thread, I find it curious that with all the fellow tournament anglers on Owasso on Saturday, the angler who boated the fish had to go find another boat to help witness the catch.

Seems like it should've been the other way around since everyone supposedly cares about the "resource" so much. But maybe not if the fish isn't in your boat.

[AgentWalker]

Got my dad up from colorado to fish the tourny. Caught his first ever, 39.5 which took the grand prize. Not a bad way to pop your cherry. Bitter sweet, bit his thumb, surgery tomorrow on severed tenden. White bear was packed, great luck in the afternoons trolling smaller crank baits in the deep holes. If you were a musky what would you do with all the casting and the traffic.

[dudeness]

Hey, we pulled my boat out right in front of you guys. I talked to your dad, he was hurtin a little. I am glad to hear that he took the drawing.

Hope all goes well with the thumb! Good luck.

[Shack]

Sorry that happened to your father hoe he feels better soon.

There is always room for improvement with anything.

As grey as the guide lines might be for the witness portion of the rules I still give the MMTT props for the rules they have in running this contest.

As some of you may know I am an avid flathead catfisherman. My flathead is your guys musky. They both take about the same time to get to major trophy size (well maybe the flat have a couple more years give or take) and as a fisherman they are confined to a limited amount of waters in MN just like the musky. If you want to try for either a musky or a flathead most of us can not just hop in and drive to the nearest body of water to target them. You can even go into the equipment used to target these fish from rods and reels to handling gear. So close indeed and thank to the help in this forum (props to Cjac also) I started to target musky’s my self and will again this year further this on ML in the fall. When I get my first one it will come in the boat of an image and after that a personal slot of in the boat will happen just like I have for flats.

Some day I will see all local fishing tournaments for flatheads run at least the same way the MMTT runs their metro tournament. That is a personal goal I am working. Currently some local tournaments for flatheads (Belle Plain's yearly event for one) are run in a terrible matter. 30lb, 40lb, and even 50lb fish are strung up with a rope threw the gills and mouth (decoy bag at best), drug for miles to a boat launch, loaded up in the back of a truck heading to the weigh in uptown, weighed and put in a display tank when a majority of them parish. Just imagine looking at an upper 40" fish floating belly up in a tank in the middle of town when later it will be brought down to the river and dumped back in if the gills are moving at all. No regard for the fished life at all.

I understand the passion some have to strive for further corrections for the fish they love, but I am going to use the rule of this tournament as a starting model for my quest in turning around some of the flathead tournaments in the area. It would be a monumental goal of mine to see tournaments like the Belle Plain annual catfish contest (not to be confused with the Belle Plain Catfish League which assigns a competing angler to each a boat as the witness).

It seems to me the MMTT is on the right track though.

[iceman1212]

I wonder if anyone tried wasserman during the tourney??