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Black_Bay

New CAFE Standards

51 posts in this topic

What are your thoughts on this? While I'd love to have a F150 that got 40 mpg I doubt that the technology is available, especially with current state and EPA rules. There are clean diesels in Europe but most are not allowed here. While the idea of better fuel economy is nice I think the current administration has totally over looked the unintended consequences. With less fuel being used gas taxes will have to rise significantly to keep up with road projects. People may actually drive even more than now resulting in no net gain in fuel savings. More electric vehicles will result in more power plants needing to be built to keep up with demand... I'm not saying we shouldn't shoot for better efficiency but lets not pretend that this won't come without significant costs.

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While I'd love to have a F150 that got 40 mpg I doubt that the technology is available

Don't fool yourself

In October 1959 Allis-Chalmers was plowing a field with a Fuel-Cell Tractor.

That was 50 years ago.

Now it sits in the Smithsonian, right where the lobbyists want it.

223a.jpg

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Its going to cost us all money. Not only will we have to pay more for the vehicles, but they will have to raise the tax on gas to make up for the lost revenue, so you will end up paying the same amount or more at the pump.

I am all for buying less oil from crazy dictators and terrorists, but consumers and the market should dictate which vehicles are bought and sold, not the Govt. The auto industry is already over regulated, between mileage, emissions, and safety. This is the wrong time to be doing it. Half the reason vehicles are so heavy and expensive nowadays is because of all of the required safety equipment. The Govt also wants to increase roof strength this year, which will add more weight (decreases mileage) and cost. The right hand doesn't know what the left is doing, and they are talking out of both sides of their mouth. You don't kick people when they are down.

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More electric vehicles will result in more power plants needing to be built to keep up with demand...

What do you mean?? I assumed you just plug in your car and poof the batteries are charged and your good to go. whistle I guess I better go back to my organic kool-aid. coolcrazy

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Its going to cost us all money. Not only will we have to pay more for the vehicles, but they will have to raise the tax on gas to make up for the lost revenue, so you will end up paying the same amount or more at the pump.

I am all for buying less oil from crazy dictators and terrorists, but consumers and the market should dictate which vehicles are bought and sold, not the Govt. The auto industry is already over regulated, between mileage, emissions, and safety. This is the wrong time to be doing it. Half the reason vehicles are so heavy and expensive nowadays is because of all of the required safety equipment. The Govt also wants to increase roof strength this year, which will add more weight (decreases mileage) and cost. The right hand doesn't know what the left is doing, and they are talking out of both sides of their mouth. You don't kick people when they are down.

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This may put a big crimp on hunting and fishing as we know it. Sad to see things like this happen without a whole lot of debate or discussion.

Some excerpts from an AP article:

The new rules would bring new cars and trucks sold in the United States to an average of 35.5 miles per gallon, about 10 mpg more than today's standards. Passenger cars will be required to get 39 mpg, light trucks 30 mpg.

That means cars and trucks on American roads will have to become smaller, lighter and more efficient.

Eric Fedewa, vice president of global powertrain forecasting for the auto consulting firm CSM Worldwide in Northville, Mich., said the changes will make pickup trucks so much more expensive that they will be used almost exclusively for work

The Obama administration says the changes mean the average vehicle would cost about $1,300 more, although some private analysts say the increase will be much heftier. The administration says gas savings will make up the difference in about three years.

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So how is this going to effect us, the fisherman of FM?

My 02 F150 gets between 12 and 15 mpg depending on load and conditions.

The average outboard motor gets about 4. Some more, some less depending on boat size and weight.

What do these standards hold for us. A gallon of fuel for the boat is aready close to $3.00/gallon. On the water charge can be double that. If prices go up because the taxes and what not go up, were does that leave us. Sitting on shore?

My grandparents used to have vehicals registered to them in CA. When the standars went into place, they changed billing, mailing, and registration addresses to our place here in MN to get out of the testing. Mabe we will all be getting PO Boxes in other countries to get out of it. wink

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Oh Yea...

Hey Chevy and Chrysler, we own you now so listen up. Hey Ford, we didnt bail you out yet and feel we should punish you too, so here you go.

You know how you are all struggling to make money and cant sell the cars you have? Ok, well now you need to change them all and retool all of your factories so we can feel better about ourselves. See we made up this thing called "global warming" and now we need to keep up the sharade, so now you get this.

What a joke.....

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This nation eventually will turn full circle and another revolutionary war will need to be fought.

It’s to the point where very little is “free” anymore.

Free thought? Sort of

Free Speech? Kind of

Taxation without representation? Hardly

Right to bear arms? Partly

Supporters of this Obama initiative call it historic. It’s historic all right smirk

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You hit the nail on the head Dtro. I really believe its not that far off. Our goverment is close to out of control.

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This nation eventually will turn full circle and another revolutionary war will need to be fought.

HA! This nation? The U.S. of A.? The same country which became a plate of quivering jello after what less than twenty guys did? A revolution? No way, no how, not in my lifetime.

Well......maybe if they cancelled American Idol or Dancing with the Stars there might be one. wink

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grin

That quivering jello you felt/heard was that of which the media portrayed.

There is a still a healthy population ready to stand up to what they believe in and back it up with force.

Whoa, now there a topic changer...

Back to the new standards, does anyone else agree that this will help us in the long run???

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This may put a big crimp on hunting and fishing as we know it. Sad to see things like this happen without a whole lot of debate or discussion.

Some excerpts from an AP article:

The new rules would bring new cars and trucks sold in the United States to an average of 35.5 miles per gallon, about 10 mpg more than today's standards. Passenger cars will be required to get 39 mpg, light trucks 30 mpg.

That means cars and trucks on American roads will have to become smaller, lighter and more efficient.

Eric Fedewa, vice president of global powertrain forecasting for the auto consulting firm CSM Worldwide in Northville, Mich., said the changes will make pickup trucks so much more expensive that they will be used almost exclusively for work

The Obama administration says the changes mean the average vehicle would cost about $1,300 more, although some private analysts say the increase will be much heftier. The administration says gas savings will make up the difference in about three years.

This is actually a huge concern of mine and what I meant by unintended, maybe unintended, consequences. If this forces the price of tow vehicles, ie pick ups and SUV's, to such levels who could afford them? My current pick up won't last forever. If actual truck prices, plus potential gas guzzler taxes, pollution fees, and whatever they can come up with make replacing my truck out of reach how will I tow my boat to the lake, my ATV, my snowmobiles... My lifestyle, and many others on this site, could be seriously compromised. I'm dead serious about this too. Minnesota companies such as Lund, Larson, Crestliner, Alumacraft, Glastron, Sea Swirl, Polaris, Arctic Cat, Floe, Sled Bed ect, plus the entire tourism industry could be could be in for extremely hard times. Now I'm sure some will say this is paranoia and far fetched, but I say it is a possible outcome. If the only way car manufacturers can meet these standards by 2016 is by offering small electric cars, hybrid vehicles and getting rid of larger vehicles then this is a realistic possibility. There will probably be pick ups but you can bet the inevitable adding of heafty taxes on what the feds deem to be polluting vehicles will take the price to new highs.

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I didn't see quivering jello, I saw a fierce machine jump into action. Course with what's there now it wouldn't even be as solid as jello.

On the cars, smaller, lighter, etc means more deaths when there are accidents, period.

Hopefully those that were all about Change will start to take the blinders off and put the koolaide down.

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That quivering jello you felt/heard was that of which the media portrayed.

Ahhh dtro, if only one could pull up historic posts from here in Silly Town from beyond three years ago, but we all know those posts are unavailable now. Hmmmmmmmmm I wonder why??? smilewinksmile

The downfall of truck purchases last summer was directly related to $4/Gal gas. The dealers wouldn't even take trucks as trade-ins. Is our memory that short? There will always be a need for trucks, but the question is, are you willing to pay more for a truck with better gas mileage, or more for gas? Looks like a whole lot of people went with the better gas mileage over the higher gas prices last summer. The Big 3 hedged their bets on the other, and now they are losing that bet and we ALL are paying for it.

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so, they mandate higher mpg. that just means the oil gurus will keep jackin prices because there not selling near the gas. another thing, its my belief that the oil companies are holding patents to carbs where noone can see them that do get 50-60 mpg. IMO.

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It's a vicious cycle that we're part of Glenn, and I don't see the greed cycle being broken anytime in the near future.

Get it while ya can folks.

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The new law doesn't state that all vehicles sold need to get above 30 for trucks, and 35 for cars, they just need to average that. So the manufacturers can sell half of their trucks that can get 35 mpg, and half that will get 25 mpg and average 30 mpg and be ok with the new law. This is very doable. Even more so for the car standards, it isn't out of reach. I agree the bar is set a little high, but if someone doesn't push them they will never achieve it. If you look at what the mpg the new vehicles are getting today, in the new 2010 and 2009's it is about a 25% increase. This new law isn't going to stop the manufacturers from building and selling bigger sized trucks, it will just encourage them to make them more efficient, and to also build and promote more midsized trucks. How many people driving to work or traveling actually need a full sized truck or suv that can pull a 18,000 lb trailer, maybe 10% of them that are on the road! I also think the 1 ton trucks and larger are exempt from these numbers anyway.

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I think I actually heard different 4WE, that is the way they were always doing it.

What makes this new legislation "special" is that it is vehicle specific, no more averaging.

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You may be right, but that is what I heard on the tv. I haven't did any research, just what I heard on tv. In any case, if they don't include the 1 ton or bigger trucks into the numbers, I still think it is reachable. The 2010 f150's are suppose to be getting mid 20's, I don't see why within 7 years they cant squeeze another 5 mpg out of them. I haven't heard from any of the manufacturers that it is unreachable, just that it will cost more to design, and I am sure the average price of vehicles between now and 2016 will go up a lot more then $1300 anyway. And as always if they don' reach it, it will just get an extension.

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Maybe we'll finally end up seeing the 1/2 ton diesel trucks given a chance.

I don't think 30mpg is that much of a stretch for pickups.

The new Chev/GMCs are supposed to get 20mpg with the engine management system (cylinder shut down) in them.

Put an efficient diesel in a light truck and you probably have the mileage problem taken care of already.

GM has not done a dang thing to the Silverado/Sierra platform in the last 10 years, until this year. Other than a few cosmetics, my '99 is no different than an '08. 10 years of manufacturing the same thing.

Now they have 7 years to increase the mileage by another 10mpg.

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...This nation eventually will turn full circle and another revolutionary war will need to be fought....

Back in the day the lines were clear, North vs South.

Today it would be neighbor vs neighbor, no lines just anarchy.

Everyone hurts with this deal if they know it or not. The dock truck my father drives for work gets 4 on a good day. The rest of his fleet of 20 trucks get between 3 and 6. The US Mail has to go, 6mpg. Think that will get better?

We all loose with this deal, ALL OF US. Just another example of "look at me now" and we will figure it out later politics.

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The new CAFE standards are 42 mpg average for cars and 26 for trucks by 2016. Currently, the truck standard is 24. So what's so horrible about a 2 mpg increase over 8 years?

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Just another example of "look at me now" and we will figure it out later politics.

I prefer to call "we'll figure it out later" a challenge to innovate.

I heard a comment today about the internet, it didn't exist 15 years ago. Now look what we have. Kind of hard to comprehend if you sit down and think hard about it.

The auto industry has really been fine with the status quo, time to challenge them. I mentioned my pickup earlier, its a 1999 model GMC Sierra. There is seriously no difference between a '99 model and a '08 model other than slightly different styling. My opinion as to why the auto industry isn't selling vehicles is they aren't making anything new and exciting that people want to buy. My truck is fine, reliable, rust free, and does what I want it to. What will an '08 model do that mine won't do? Give me something a bit different and I'm probably lining up to buy it. Adding a nav system isn't new and exciting IMO. My previous vehicle was a 1993 Ford Ranger 4.0l V6 4x4. Ford still makes the truck, its fundamentally the exact same thing that was available in 1993. 15 years of producing a particular model vehicle and nothing has changed. Back to the internet example, 15 years of tech and advancement and WOW!!

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