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so haaad

UND one step closer to losing nickname & logo

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UND took one step closer to losing their Fighting Sioux nickname and logo. The North Dakota's Board of Higher Education agreed to drop UND's Fighting Sioux nickname and Indian head logo, effective Aug. 1, 2010. Sounds like the nickname could survive if all the Sioux tribes agree that UND can continue to use the nickname and logo. The last of the Sioux tribes, the Standing Rock tribe, must agree by Oct. 1.

Before UND sports teams were nicknamed the Fighting Sioux they were the Flickertails. Gooooo Flickertails!!! The UND/UM hockey rivalry would become the battle of the best ground rodent!

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This really drives my crazy!! If they are forced to change there is going to be a lot less money donated to the college. And the season ticket holders are not happy and I know people that will not go to any events after this happens!!! Its sad!!

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Really too bad Englstad isn't still alive because this wouldn't be an issue. Here's one gopher fan pulling for the sioux to keep their name and a huge part of their tradition.

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This really drives my crazy!! If they are forced to change there is going to be a lot less money donated to the college. And the season ticket holders are not happy and I know people that will not go to any events after this happens!!! Its sad!!

What more do they need to donate to UND? Ralph has passed away but his wife Betty did donate for a new Basketball court for men/womens program at UND. I hate to see the nickname go but hopefully they get to keep it. What about the Seminoles' of Florida State they still have the nickname don't they? Anyways we'll see what happens...

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Isn't everyone getting a little over sensitive? If they changed their name to the fighting Caucasians it wouldn’t bother me in the least because Caucasian is not a derogatory comment any more than Sioux is. Sioux is a tribe of native American people, and naming a college team after them is in no way degrading to the tribe.

I used to drive a Pontiac, isn’t that a native American name? Do we have to change the name of Sioux Falls, SD next…where does it stop?

By the way Nate Larsen, I love your solution. I think the lawyer aspect really sums it all up!

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I agree, making UND change the name is a joke, and I hope they get to keep it. The name is not derogatory.

Maybe they should change it to the UND Fighting Happy Hugging Sioux

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I think Florida State cut a deal ($$$$$) with the local tribe so they get to keep their name. I would think if the university were to give the tribes a cut of the apparel sales everyone would win but I'm sure its more complicated than that.

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Im not bashing the sioux tribe but it kinda makes you wonder at times, im sure the guys like you said at FSU got some real nice change to say it was ok to keep the name, are other tribes out there doing the same trying to get money? Im not saying they did or anything but the way money runs all in the country makes you think doesnt it

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Now correct if i'm wrong Mr. QuackAddict but isn't it in the lease agreement that if UND changes thier name, the Englestad family, who owns the arena, will boot them out

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Now correct if i'm wrong Mr. QuackAddict but isn't it in the lease agreement that if UND changes thier name, the Englestad family, who owns the arena, will boot them out

I have no idea, I just remember Ralph saying that if UND changes the name, he would not donate the $110(?) million for the new rink when they had talks about having to change the name by NCAA rules or whatsoever but not sure on the agreement though, did you hear anything about that?

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Just a little refresher on the Sioux issue. The name is an abbreviation of the French corruption Nadaouesioux of the Algonquian name Nadowesiwug, " little snakes."

I don't know too many groups of people who'd like to be known as little snakes, and it was a name given to them by someone else. They call themselves Dakota, Nakota or Lakota, depending on which branch they're from. Dakota also is used to describe the tribe as a whole. What we know as the western Sioux bands are Lakota bands. The word means "allies."

So there are plenty of Dakota people who don't like the name Sioux in the first place, though there also are plenty of them who are just fine with it.

Many also don't like Fighting Sioux because they feel it perpetuates the stereotype of the murderous days of the Indian Wars during the Old West. In fact, even before white settlement there was plenty of fighting between tribes, as stealing horses and such were ways for young Indian men to gain wealth, and touching a live enemy was proof of bravery and built prestige. But the Lakota also emphasized loyalty to the band, selflessness within the band, and many other things that we see as culturally positive.

However, there are a lot of Sioux/Dakota who like Fighting Sioux, as evidenced by the Spirit Lake (Dakota) tribal voters, who approved a referendum supporting UND's use of the nickname. One problem is that the tribal councils tend to be more traditional and conservative than the voters, and even if Standing Rock (Lakota) Reservation voters are in favor of the name (a referendum approving it likely would pass if it got put to a vote), it's quite possible neither tribal council would issue a letter of approval for the name, and those documents would be needed for UND to keep the name. There are tribal elections coming up, and people on both reservations are talking about booting the incumbents and voting in people who will represent the will of the people, but it's unlikely that could happen in time for the Oct. 1 deadline.

There's no part of the arena contract that dumps UND athletic teams if the name is changed, so they'll stay there.

Sorry to get long-winded. Typically, I probably put in too much information. shockedshocked

But I've been really interested in this issue for a long time. I was an Indian Studies/English major at UND and was immersed in the Lakota world for a time, and then I reported news stories on the issue for the Grand Forks Herald when it heated up about 10 years ago.

I understand both sides of this issue, and can sympathize each way. As a UND alum, I personally don't care whether the name stays or goes. An athletic tradition is not contained by a name. It is the accumulation of all the victories, losses and character building that have gone before this day and the expectation of all those things yet to come.

I was a Grand Forks Central High School Redskin when I graduated, and they changed that name to the Knights several years later. That gave me a little twinge, but I was much younger at the time.

If the name does get changed, sure, there'll be some outrage. It's human nature. People need something to get their knickers in a twist over. Then it'll blow over and things will go on as they always have.

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Has anyone here been to a Hockey game at the Ralh? They do one heck of a tribute to the Sioux tribes on the jumboton. Guess they don't have do do that anymore if this goes down?

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Yes good post Steve!

Maybe the name is considered derogatory to the Indians but the I think the college has one of the best followings in the nation.

I'm a SCSU alumni and hockey season ticket holder. IMO, no one has a better following/fan support in the WCHA than No Dak. To me that shows pride and respect.

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I can't stand UND, but I can sympathize with them on this topic. Any team that has an indian nickname is most likely showing a sign of respect to that particular tribe. I will never understand why people think is is derogatory...? I can also understand why the "fighting" part may offend some people, but come on, this is an athletic team's name. Are they going to come out and be called the "Lay down and die" Sioux? Like I said, I don't care for UND in any way and I couldn't care less if the name gets changed, but it will definitley be hard to get used to should the name ultimately end up getting changed.

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