Guests - If You want access to member only forums on HSO. You will gain access only when you sign-in or Sign-Up on HotSpotOutdoors.

It's easy - LOOK UPPER right menu.

Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
so haaad

UND one step closer to losing nickname & logo

25 posts in this topic

UND took one step closer to losing their Fighting Sioux nickname and logo. The North Dakota's Board of Higher Education agreed to drop UND's Fighting Sioux nickname and Indian head logo, effective Aug. 1, 2010. Sounds like the nickname could survive if all the Sioux tribes agree that UND can continue to use the nickname and logo. The last of the Sioux tribes, the Standing Rock tribe, must agree by Oct. 1.

Before UND sports teams were nicknamed the Fighting Sioux they were the Flickertails. Gooooo Flickertails!!! The UND/UM hockey rivalry would become the battle of the best ground rodent!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is my thought...They should change their name to the Fighting Sue and replace the indian with a picture of a lawyer. wink

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It amazes me still that they have to change but Notre Dame doesn't. I'm even part Irish.

DD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This really drives my crazy!! If they are forced to change there is going to be a lot less money donated to the college. And the season ticket holders are not happy and I know people that will not go to any events after this happens!!! Its sad!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I say a picture of Johnny Cash!!!! Guy named Sue!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really too bad Englstad isn't still alive because this wouldn't be an issue. Here's one gopher fan pulling for the sioux to keep their name and a huge part of their tradition.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Or the Fighting Soo!

Soo2.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This really drives my crazy!! If they are forced to change there is going to be a lot less money donated to the college. And the season ticket holders are not happy and I know people that will not go to any events after this happens!!! Its sad!!

What more do they need to donate to UND? Ralph has passed away but his wife Betty did donate for a new Basketball court for men/womens program at UND. I hate to see the nickname go but hopefully they get to keep it. What about the Seminoles' of Florida State they still have the nickname don't they? Anyways we'll see what happens...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Isn't everyone getting a little over sensitive? If they changed their name to the fighting Caucasians it wouldn’t bother me in the least because Caucasian is not a derogatory comment any more than Sioux is. Sioux is a tribe of native American people, and naming a college team after them is in no way degrading to the tribe.

I used to drive a Pontiac, isn’t that a native American name? Do we have to change the name of Sioux Falls, SD next…where does it stop?

By the way Nate Larsen, I love your solution. I think the lawyer aspect really sums it all up!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree, making UND change the name is a joke, and I hope they get to keep it. The name is not derogatory.

Maybe they should change it to the UND Fighting Happy Hugging Sioux

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

there are so many other schools and teams out there with names why little old Fargo come on

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Florida State cut a deal ($$$$$) with the local tribe so they get to keep their name. I would think if the university were to give the tribes a cut of the apparel sales everyone would win but I'm sure its more complicated than that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe they should change it to the UND Fighting Happy Hugging Sioux

I'll pass.... grin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im not bashing the sioux tribe but it kinda makes you wonder at times, im sure the guys like you said at FSU got some real nice change to say it was ok to keep the name, are other tribes out there doing the same trying to get money? Im not saying they did or anything but the way money runs all in the country makes you think doesnt it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

there are so many other schools and teams out there with names why little old Fargo come on

You mean Grand Forks, right??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now correct if i'm wrong Mr. QuackAddict but isn't it in the lease agreement that if UND changes thier name, the Englestad family, who owns the arena, will boot them out

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now correct if i'm wrong Mr. QuackAddict but isn't it in the lease agreement that if UND changes thier name, the Englestad family, who owns the arena, will boot them out

I have no idea, I just remember Ralph saying that if UND changes the name, he would not donate the $110(?) million for the new rink when they had talks about having to change the name by NCAA rules or whatsoever but not sure on the agreement though, did you hear anything about that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a little refresher on the Sioux issue. The name is an abbreviation of the French corruption Nadaouesioux of the Algonquian name Nadowesiwug, " little snakes."

I don't know too many groups of people who'd like to be known as little snakes, and it was a name given to them by someone else. They call themselves Dakota, Nakota or Lakota, depending on which branch they're from. Dakota also is used to describe the tribe as a whole. What we know as the western Sioux bands are Lakota bands. The word means "allies."

So there are plenty of Dakota people who don't like the name Sioux in the first place, though there also are plenty of them who are just fine with it.

Many also don't like Fighting Sioux because they feel it perpetuates the stereotype of the murderous days of the Indian Wars during the Old West. In fact, even before white settlement there was plenty of fighting between tribes, as stealing horses and such were ways for young Indian men to gain wealth, and touching a live enemy was proof of bravery and built prestige. But the Lakota also emphasized loyalty to the band, selflessness within the band, and many other things that we see as culturally positive.

However, there are a lot of Sioux/Dakota who like Fighting Sioux, as evidenced by the Spirit Lake (Dakota) tribal voters, who approved a referendum supporting UND's use of the nickname. One problem is that the tribal councils tend to be more traditional and conservative than the voters, and even if Standing Rock (Lakota) Reservation voters are in favor of the name (a referendum approving it likely would pass if it got put to a vote), it's quite possible neither tribal council would issue a letter of approval for the name, and those documents would be needed for UND to keep the name. There are tribal elections coming up, and people on both reservations are talking about booting the incumbents and voting in people who will represent the will of the people, but it's unlikely that could happen in time for the Oct. 1 deadline.

There's no part of the arena contract that dumps UND athletic teams if the name is changed, so they'll stay there.

Sorry to get long-winded. Typically, I probably put in too much information. shockedshocked

But I've been really interested in this issue for a long time. I was an Indian Studies/English major at UND and was immersed in the Lakota world for a time, and then I reported news stories on the issue for the Grand Forks Herald when it heated up about 10 years ago.

I understand both sides of this issue, and can sympathize each way. As a UND alum, I personally don't care whether the name stays or goes. An athletic tradition is not contained by a name. It is the accumulation of all the victories, losses and character building that have gone before this day and the expectation of all those things yet to come.

I was a Grand Forks Central High School Redskin when I graduated, and they changed that name to the Knights several years later. That gave me a little twinge, but I was much younger at the time.

If the name does get changed, sure, there'll be some outrage. It's human nature. People need something to get their knickers in a twist over. Then it'll blow over and things will go on as they always have.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Has anyone here been to a Hockey game at the Ralh? They do one heck of a tribute to the Sioux tribes on the jumboton. Guess they don't have do do that anymore if this goes down?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes good post Steve!

Maybe the name is considered derogatory to the Indians but the I think the college has one of the best followings in the nation.

I'm a SCSU alumni and hockey season ticket holder. IMO, no one has a better following/fan support in the WCHA than No Dak. To me that shows pride and respect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't stand UND, but I can sympathize with them on this topic. Any team that has an indian nickname is most likely showing a sign of respect to that particular tribe. I will never understand why people think is is derogatory...? I can also understand why the "fighting" part may offend some people, but come on, this is an athletic team's name. Are they going to come out and be called the "Lay down and die" Sioux? Like I said, I don't care for UND in any way and I couldn't care less if the name gets changed, but it will definitley be hard to get used to should the name ultimately end up getting changed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0



  • Posts

    • The wife and I went on Sunday also. Like Rundrave, a lot of the lodge booths didn't really appeal to me but we talked to quite a few dog people there, maybe learned a few things. Funny how two people that would have nothing in common can talk like old friends for 20 minutes about a dog.Realized that a lot of the game farms are WAY more expensive than the one I'm a member at.  Over all I would say it was worth it.
    •     I think we would be better served by not being suspicious of religions themselves, but by being suspicious of rulers and oppressors who use religion as a tool to serve their purposes.     How Gandhi put it:   I had practiced Hinduism from early childhood. My nurse had taught me to invoke Rama when I feared evil spirits. Later on, I had come in contact with Christians, Muslims and others, and after making a fair study of other religions, had stuck to Hinduism. I am as firm in my faith today as in my early childhood. I believe god would make me an instrument of saving the religion that I love, cherish and practice. In any case, one has to have constant practice and acquaintance with the fundamentals of religion before being qualified for becoming god's instrument. It has been whispered that by being so much with Musalman friends I make myself unfit to know the Hindu mind. The Hindu mind is myself. Surely I do not need to live amidst Hindus to know the Hindu mind when every fiber of my being is Hindu. My Hinduism must be a very poor thing if it cannot flourish under influences of the most adverse. I know instinctively what is necessary for Hinduism. As my instinct is wholly Hindu, I know that what I am about to say will be acceptable to the vast mass of the Hindus. My Hinduism is not sectarian. It includes all that I know to be best in Islam,Christianity, Buddhism and Zoroastrianism. I approach politics, as everything else, in a religious spirit. Truth is my religion and ahimsa is the only way of its realization. I have rejected once and for all the doctrine of the sword. My position is and has been clear. I am proud of being a Hindu, but I have never gone to anybody as a Hindu to secure Hindu-Muslim unity. My Hinduism demands no pacts. I am no politician in the accepted sense. It is because I am sanatani (orthodox) Hindu that I claim to be a Christian, a Buddhist and a Muslim. Some Muslim friends also feel that I have no right to read Arabic verses from the Koran, but such (people) do not know that true religion transcends language and scripture. I do not see any reason why I should not read the Kalma, why I should not praise Allah and why I should not acclaim Muhammad as his prophet. I believe in all the great prophets and saints of every religion. I shall continue to ask god to give me strength not to be angry with my accusers, but to be prepared even to die at their hands without wishing them ill. I claim that Hinduism is all-inclusive and I am sure that if I live up to my convictions, I shall have served not only Hinduism but Islam also. There is mention of terrible punishments in the Bhagavatam, the Manu Smriti and the Vedas. Yet the central teaching of the Hindu religion is that mercy of kindness is the essence of all religion. I want you to bear in mind what Tulsidas has said: "Good and bad, all men are the creation of god. The man of god picks up the good and discards the bad like the proverbial swan which is able to drink the milk and leave behind water, when a mixture of water and milk is placed before it." I am proud to belong to that Hinduism which is all inclusive and which stands for tolerance. Aryan scholars swore by what they called the Vedic religion and Hindustan is otherwise known as 'Aryavarta.' I have no such aspiration. The Hindustan of my conception is all-sufficing for me. It certainly includes the Vedas, but it includes also much more. I can detect no inconsistency in declaring that I can, without in any way whatsoever impairing the dignity of Hinduism, pay equal homage to the best of Islam, Christianity, Zoroastrianism and Judaism. Such Hinduism will live as long as the sun shines. Tulsidas has summed it up in one doha (couplet): "The root of religion is embedded in mercy, whereas egotism is rooted in love of the body." Tulsi says that mercy should never be abandoned, even though the body perishes. Hinduism is not an exclusive religion. In it there is room for the worship of all prophets in the world. It is not a missionary religion in the ordinary sense of the term. It has no doubt absorbed many tribes in its fold, but this absorption has been an evolutionary, imperceptible character. Hinduism tells everyone to worship god according to his own faith or dharma and so it lives at peace with all religions. Though I call myself a sanatani Hindu, I am proud of the fact that the late Imam Saheb of South Africa accompanied me to India on his return and died in the Sabarmati ashram. His daughter and son-in-law are still at Sabarmati. Am I to throw them overboard? My Hinduism teaches me to respect all religions. In this lies the secret of Rama Raj. The die is cast for me. The common factor of all religions is non-violence. Some inculcate more of it than others; all agree that you can never have too much of it. We must be sure, however, that it is non-violence and not a cloak for cowardice. Hinduism with its message of ahimsa is to me the most glorious religion in the world -- as my wife to me is the most beautiful woman in the world -- but others may feel the same about their own religion. Religion is outraged when an outrage is perpetrated in its name. Almost all the riots in the unhappy land take place in the name of religion, though they might have a political motive behind them. There is no room for goondaismin any religion worth the name, be it Islam, Hinduism or any other. If religion dies, then India dies. Today, the Hindus and the Muslims are clinging to the husk of religion. They have gone mad. But I hope that all this is froth, that all this scum has come to the surface, as happens when the waters of two rivers meet. Everything appears muddy on top and underneath is crystal clear and calm. The scum goes to the sea of itself, and the rivers mingle and flow clear and pure.          
    •   thanks all for the replies - how does this Aqua Vu HD 700i display show up outside?  So from the replies I'm sure I narrowed my search down for either the Marcum VS825SD or Aqua Vu HD 700i.  Not just have to see if I can find some year end ice specials.
    • Add some Liptons Beefy Onion soup mix to your burger. Adds a great taste.
    •     Must be Milwaukee or Ryobi because DeWalt already has 6amh batteries and they do make car chargers as well.
    • "They" As in Milwaukee?
    • During the past century we were also concerned with Germany, Japan, Korea and Vietnam. You blaming them too?
    • The MN DNR Eagle Cam pair already has three eggs and is over half way done incubating them. http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/features/webcams/eaglecam/index.html
    • Google;   Sayyid Qutb  and you can then read and decide on your own where and how todays Islamic Fundamentalists originated. 
    • Also check out discount ramps dot com
  • Our Sponsors