Williams wall

[Scott K]

A U.S. District judge handed down no ruling in Vikings DT Kevin and Pat Williams' case against the NFL's StarCaps-related suspension Thursday.

The judge gave no timetable for a ruling after 2 1/2 hours of arguments. He did say one should come "relatively soon." A court injunction allowed the Williamses to finish out last season, but the suspension risk remains.

Source: Minneapolis Star-Tribune

We should hear the results within a couple weeks. It could just determine how are season will be.

[Jim Uran]

Can we pick what 4 games we don't have "the wall" in!! Lol!!

[eyehunter]

To tell you the truth, if they DO get the suspension, I hope it is the first 4 of the season. Cleveland, Detroit, San Francisco, and Green Bay. After that they see the likes of Baltimore and Pittsburgh.

[fishin58]

My memory is not serving me right now and I havent looked it up, but wouldnt Pats games he missed last year count against the pending suspension?

[Scott K]

I think it would have, if he would have pleaded guilty before he was out for them games.

[Jim Uran]

I don't think so fishin, he was injured! But it would be great!

[Sandmannd]

I don't know how you can be milionares and mess up like this. Although, I think the blame is partly on the league here when the players called and they were told it was safe to take.

[Drewski]

I think it's [PoorWordUsage]. They knew full well what they were doing.

[zepman]

I don't think so...I think they were misinformed.

[Drewski]

I think they should have to serve the suspension, misinformed or not. They should make these guys an example so this kind of stuff doesn't keep happening. Just goes to show they can get away with anything these days.

[PierBridge]

I think it's [PoorWordUsage]. They knew full well what they were doing.

No doubt.

Lets hope they can get the penalty knocked down to Two games some how.

[zepman]

We're not talking steroids here...it was a supplement to help them shed a few pounds. I do think they will eventually end up being suspended but from the reports that are out it sounds like they tried to cover all their bases and STILL got stung. They weren't trying to get away with anything...just took the wrong supplement on some bad advice.

[Sandmannd]

Correct zepman and from what I've always heard they called the league office to verify it wasn't on the banned substance list. They were told it was fine to take. That puts the blame back on the NFL IMO.

[bassNspear]

i would say that if it wasnt on the list, then they shouldnt be out any games at all. dont change something when it wasnt on the list

[nofishfisherman]

From the reports that came out when all of this first broke it sounds like the Williams boys and the Saints players who were nailed for the same drug all did their homework on the drug and in all cases it looked legit.

I think I even remember Deuce Mcallister sent some of the drug for testing to see what it had in it before he took any of it.

I believe that the company that made the drug is actually being sued by one of the Saints players that already served his suspension beucase the ingredient that was banned by the NFL is not listed on the label and it did not show up in the tests the Deuce had done. Sounds like the drug company maybe produced a batch of the drug that was either contaminated with a banned substance or they changed the formula and didn't list that on the label.

It just sounds like all the players did what they could to ensure it was a legal drug to be taking.

If you are told somthing is ok by several different sources including the governing body for your sport (the NFL in this case) why would you doubt it?

I understand that the players are responsible for what they put in their bodies but there is a point where the NFL needs to take responsibility with providing them with the correct information.

[Sandmannd]

Nicely put, that's exactly my feelings on it. They jumped through all the hoops they needed to.

[PierBridge]

One small problem its up to the players not the league. It's in writing in the collective bargaining agreement that ALL players signed.

Also its not the leagues job to follow all these fly by nite company's that are intentionally putting banned substances in their products and its ludicrous to suggest so.

Probably a 4 game suspension and rightfully so but with all the whining and lawyering maybe we can get lucky and get these fools penalty reduced to 2 games or less.

Go T-Jack/Favre!

[traveler]

so they're fools because they're not chemists??

[nofishfisherman]

I'm not sure what more they could have done.

If I'm told by 3 sources something is legal I'm going to take their word for it.

If the NFL wants no responsibility then they should not be offering an answer as to whether or not a product is banned. As soon as the NFL tells me something is legal then that would be all that i would need to hear.

I do understand the way the rule is written and I think it probably should be reworded to give the players steps that they can take to ensure a product is safe or not.

[FISHINGURU]

well the news isn't good

The NFL earned a significant victory in the Minnesota federal court on Friday, a win that could hurt the Minnesota Vikings and New Orleans Saints in the upcoming season.

A federal judge dismissed the claims of five NFL players who had been suspended last season for use of a banned diuretic in the diet supplement StarCaps. Among the five are four starting defensive linemen for the Vikings and Saints, including Pro Bowl defensive tackles Pat Williams and Kevin Williams(notes) of Minnesota and starting defensive ends Charles Grant(notes) and Will Smith(notes) of New Orleans.

All four are expected to sit the first four games of next season without pay. Their suspensions had been blocked last season while U.S. district judge Paul Magnuson heard arguments from the league and the NFL Players Association.

“We are pleased that after a careful review of the record the court has upheld the suspensions of the players in this case,” NFL spokesman Greg Aiello wrote in an email Saturday morning. The decision strongly supports the NFL program on performance enhancing substances that protects the health and safety of NFL players and the integrity of our game.”

The league had suspended the four defensive linemen and then-Saints running back Deuce McAllister(notes) last season after they tested positive for the diuretic Bumetanide, which flushes water from the body and is considered a masking agent for steroids. McAllister is currently unsigned, but also faces a four-game suspension.

Attorney David Cornwell argued on the players’ behalf that the league failed to warn the players about the presence of Bumetanide in StarCaps even though the league had known for two years that StarCaps contained the banned substance.

The issue created a significant debate about the role of the league’s policy on performance-enhancing substances.

A message to NFLPA attorney Jeff Kessler, who argued the case in federal court, was not immediately returned.

[harvey lee]

Sooner or later these sports stars will have to learn they cannot play with these drugs as they will get caught. So many of these players believe they are above the law or rules and play dumb when caught that they didn't know.

Seems its in every sport now.

[Sandmannd]

I agree with you Tom, but in this case I don't believe they were totally in the wrong. They did all the checking that is required of them and were told, by the NFL drug office, that it was safe to take. Not sure how that comes back to being their fault. They even had it tested on their own.

[Scott K]

The NFL is appealing a federal judge decision to remand the cases of Pat Williams and Kevin Williams to state court.

The NFL wants the Williams Wall to abide by the federal law whereas the players prefer their case to be heard in the more employee friendly Minnesota state court.

Source: Associated Press

Related: Kevin Williams

[nofishfisherman]

I think the banned substance rules need to be altered a little in light of this case.

I understand that each player is responsible for whats in their own bodies and thats fine. I just think the nfl should publish a list of the substances that are banned and NOT a list of the products that contain them.

It sounds like the banned substance the Williams boys tested positive for was on the banned substance list but it was not on the list of products the NFL supplies and it was not listed on the label by the drug company that made it.

That situation leaves room for mistakes to happen. I really don't know how the williams boys are supposed to know anymore then what they are told.

I don't see this as them thinking they are above the law or that they were trying to get away with it. I see this as them having done their homework but having the correct answers changed when they took test.

[Sandmannd]

Agreed!