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GBPackerNut

Fluorocarbon Leaders

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I use a canoeman knot I saw on The Next Bite HSOforum. It works well and is an easy knot to tie. I've never had a failure with the knot.

You should be able to find the parts for them at any larger fishing/sporting goods store. I've bought them from [PoorWordUsage]'s sporting goods, Cabelas and Gander Mountain.

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Gotta love the built in censorship on the board eh?

I guess my question may be more towards where can one find the crimps and crimp tool for the heavy stuff, like 130 to 200 pound fluoro?

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Yeah. Kind of bad when you can't name a popular store. I do know Cabela's has the crimps and crimp tools. I've had bad luck with the crimps however. I'm not sure if I had the wrong size or what, but it seems like sometimes the crimps knick the line and make it weak. Luckily I've never lost a fish, but a lure a few times on snags. I just can't trust them. I've never had the knot fail so I'm sticking with that until it fails.

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Look at Stamina Tackle or Moore's Lures. They both have the needed equipment and supplies you are looking for.

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I use Berkley Cross Loks snaps and swivels on 125 lbs Flouro, you can get them anywhere but the larger sizes are hard to find, Gander usually has them.

Cabelas HSOforum has everything but the shipping is expensive, $11 for a small order. Speaking of which, you know you're hooked on muskie fishing when you place an $80 order that consists of no lures, only parts to make leaders and lures. eek

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Check out Thorne Bros and consider skipping the crimping- just provides a weak point that will eventually fail (that'll set me up for a dozen or so people to tell their story about how they've never had a crimp fail... but I tie mine and I promise I will NEVER have a crimp fail!) Use a uni-knot with the really heavy floro line- it's a good deal.

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Guess I'm the first one to report that I've never had my crimps fail. I've broken my stringease snaps many times over, but never a crimp.

That being said if your going to crimp it has to be done properly. Number one DO NOT buy anything from Cabelas, they don't have the quality you need in either components or equipment. I purchase my stuff from Offshore Angler. Get the floro you want, seems the consensus now is no less than 130 lb. You need a high quality compound crimper, and this is important double barrel crimps. Not the standard single hole aluminum ones. I use the ones that are black in color. Can't find a catalog right now or I'd give the part #. Second get the proper size for the floro you're crimping. Sometimes the diameter of your floro fall somewhere between the crimp size recommendation in the catalog. If this happens buy both sizes above and below (crimps are cheap) you need to remember that there are mfg. tolerances. Sometimes the larger ones out of one package will fit better or mabye the other way around.

I believe that many people who have used or tried crimps in the past did not either have the quality or the person/company that assembled them did not have the know how to do it correctly. And since musky anglers cannot afford one break off they are forever put off of crimps.

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I run 8o lb floro with palomar to a crosslok snap, ill run 120 in rocks and lots of snags but it seems like the heavy line is overkill.sometimes ill use a drop of superglue or mendit on the knot and the tag. on my trolling leaders I use heavyier floro a knot and a crip. ive never has a problem with my knots failing. you have to keep in mind that a ten pound fish only ways something like 10-14oz. in the water.

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Number one DO NOT buy anything from Cabelas, they don't have the quality you need in either components or equipment.

I disagree, they carry Triple Fish Flouro in 125 lbs and Berkley Cross Lok snaps. I'm sure they have low quality products too.

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I run 8o lb floro with palomar to a crosslok snap,

You are begging for problems with a floro leader that light. I'd suggest going up another 50 lbs or so. This isn't just my suggestion, but a common one in the muskie world. For pike, you'll be fine with that weight line, but for skis, bump it up a bit and you'll be a lot safer from a major disappointment.

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havent had any problems yet, cant say that I wont but I got a 40lber, on 80, and 148 lb tarpon on the same set-up. plus to add to it I only run 65 lb pp. not to start wars but its worked for me for years so im not changing my rig. my back up is strung with 100 lb pp and 120lb floro, and I use it for pounders and cowdussa's, but for each- his own right?!?! well the debate continues

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also "Better safe than sorry" works as well here... its all about the weakest link...

I've read up somewhere that Stealth incorporates Nail Knot into their leaders before crimping it... double sense of security...

I make it a rule not to go to the minimum but to exceed the minimum... 80# or 100# test Superbraids and 130# or more for leaders for me... Just waiting til my flouro supply runs out then Im upgrading to 200# for my leaders...

I love using my own homemade fluoro leaders... Everything I used, I got at Thorne Bros... They have most of the materials online... if you dont see what you want, give them a call and they'll set you onto the right path...

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havent had any problems yet, cant say that I wont but I got a 40lber, on 80, and 148 lb tarpon on the same set-up. plus to add to it I only run 65 lb pp. not to start wars but its worked for me for years so im not changing my rig. my back up is strung with 100 lb pp and 120lb floro, and I use it for pounders and cowdussa's, but for each- his own right?!?! well the debate continues

65 lb pp is more then enough- that's not a problem. 148 tarpon is irrelevant- teeth aren't the issue there like they are with muskies. If it's worked for you, that's cool! However, to respond to Quack's "if it aint broke, why fix it?"-- it's because it will. You obviously can use whatever set up you want to use and I have no vested interested in you trying to change it, other than going heavier may save you some serious heartbreak one day. I'm glad it's not been an issue for you, but I know a several people who had 100 lb floro leaders cut by a fish-- a couple were really big fish and it's got to be a really sick feeling watching a beast of a muskie swim away from you with you line and half you leader still in their mouths.

Regardless- best of luck to you out there this year with whatever set up you use.

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A few years ago I thought 100 pound floro was enough to use on a sucker rig. I was using a 23 inch sucker and had 3 trebles hooks in the minnow. So right away I got a 50 incher to take it. We netted the fish and that 100 pound floro was so beat up and mangled. Two of the hooks I broke off by pulling hard!! Now I only use that 100 pound stuff on long leaders for trolling.

I wouldnt use floro for bulldogs, tubes, and other lures they can swallow!!

I now use 200 pound floro for most of my leaders and I tie my own knots. Its tuf to trust leaders that other people make and they cost way too much!!

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However, to respond to Quack's "if it aint broke, why fix it?"-- it's because it will. You obviously can use whatever set up you want to use and I have no vested interested in you trying to change it, other than going heavier may save you some serious heartbreak one day. I'm glad it's not been an issue for you, but I know a several people who had 100 lb floro leaders cut by a fish-- a couple were really big fish and it's got to be a really sick feeling watching a beast of a muskie swim away from you with you line and half you leader still in their mouths.

Regardless- best of luck to you out there this year with whatever set up you use.

I was just giving him a positive side, that he can use whatever he wants and if it breaks well then it breaks and he can use the same shat again or change it up to the heavy stuff. smile

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Here's a couple of stories for you flouro guys (of which I am one)...

In my early days of experimenting with flouro, I was using 80lb. test. That is, until a giant musky on Mille Lacs changed my mind on all that. I hate to admit this, but I left a well-set 10" black Suick in the mouth of a 40lber. on the north side. She followed me up four times on that day, before eating the bait at sunset. I'd estimate her at around 54" and very wide. Long story short...the flouro leader was cut about half way up when she came to the surface shaking her head for about the third time. I was sickened by that experience (which happened probably 9 years ago now) and still feel that way today when I think back.

Since then, I've stepped-up to 200lb. flouro for everything that I do. My thought process was this: had I had 200lb. flouro on that fateful day on Mille Lacs, that fish would have found the bottom of my net...instead of sinking into Davey's Jones' locker.

The 200lb. flouro has worked well over the years and I began to think that it was pretty bulletproof after catching probably 300 or so fish with them without incident. That is, until two years ago. During a mid-summer trip to Northern Wisconsin, I left a mag Bulldawg in a 45" fish.

Again, the leader was sheered through about half way up (not a terminal tackle failure). The bite-through happened on the hookset, with very little pressure actually applied to the line. In fact, the rod hardly even loaded. I was amazed at how little pressure was exerted on the leader before it was cut through.

I suspect that the leader was on the opposite side of the fish and when I set the hook - the material 'zipped' through the jaw quickly and was cut-through as if by a serated knife with very little pressure actually applied to the fish. Perhaps there is a lesson to be learned here in terms of how sharply to set the hook when using a flouro leader???

For those that are wondering, I use Seaguar flouro material, which I am fastidious about. I inspect the leader frequently throughout the day and I'll frequently replace the leader with even the smallest abrasion or when they begin to get hazey (and not perfectly clear). I take no chances.

Still, even with high pound test flouro, fish are going to cut through this material eventually - if you catch enough of them.

For the safety of the fish, I still think heavier gage flouro is less risky than thinner gage material. Since the stuff is supposed to be invisible underwater, what harm does stepping-up the breaking strength do? With a couple of bad experiences under my belt, I say go heavy; heavier than most are using today.

BrianF.

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That's a good post Brian. Sorry to hear you lost the big one.

I use Stealth floro in 130# and 150#. I caught a lot of fish using them last year and have never had a problem. I have seen some decent size nicks in the leader, but then I just switch them out with a brand new leader. The main thing is to keep ckecking your leader, especially after you catch a fish.

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I am not a big fan of the Flouro leaders for the reason Brian mentioned. I also know of people who have had the line bit through. One was on a supposed would be pb.

This last winter I tested a bunch of different style leaders. I didn't use a weight test alone, but a Jerking, bouncing, twisting and weight test.

All the flourcarbon leaders that were crimpted failed relatively quickly in the test and all at the crimp. That is the weakest point on that leader. The tied flourocarbons were substantially more durable. I had a few made for me that are tied and not crimpted. I will also be using them for only a few rare applications. I use mostly single strand wire with sure locks. On the flouro leaders the knot that was used in the test I had run is the same that I think Stealth tackle uses and Lee Tauchen.

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The one thing that i keep coming back to is that if i am using 80lb power pro and a 200 floro leader, the line size is nearly double from the main line. how do you tie it to make a strong knot that wont allow the braid to slip out?

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So far I haven't had any issues with my Stealths but I have had 174# 7 strand break at the crimp, snapped 174# single wire, and broken Titanium's to date. None are totaly perfect with anything you will in time experience a bad lot, bad luck ect with anything no matter the quality.

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Esox Magnum makes a good point and this is the reason I still use heavy flouro, despite having two bad experiences. Metal, including titanium fatigues and breaks without warning. Snaps open up. Stuff just happens.

Nothing is bulletproof.

Brian

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